Campfire - Solaris
Mar 6, 2019 at 2:37 AM Post #3,886 of 12,035
As a happy owner of a Campfire Audio product, and having listened extensively to the Solaris among others, I believe both sides have substance to contribute to the betterment of this community. Surely if you enjoy your gear as I do mine, you wouldn't be too bothered by a graph you're disagreeing with in the first place. Personally I see value in that contribution and it should exist for the people who do wish to see it and in the best case, found it informative.
 
Mar 6, 2019 at 2:43 AM Post #3,887 of 12,035
I find it surprising how you can have such wonderful insight but not be able to drive this train of thought all the way to its ultimate destination.

Yes, the anatomy of the ear canal will influence how the sound will reach the sensory organ. The physiology of the sensory organ will influence what stimuli are sent to the brain. And both of these can be measured. The first probably falls under the scope of physics, the second medicine.

But even if these were completely outside of the reach of science, what would that mean? A musical instrument produces sound. That sound reaches two different ears. Can the nature and quality of the sound produced by this instrument not be evaluated because the ears are different? Does a Stradivarius not sound objectively better than some random violin? But anyway, we don't need to go down this path, because the influence of ear anatomy can be measured and quantified. Significant geometry and material characteristics can be identified. Some baselines can be generated. Any actual ear could be measured (similar to the process of getting a custom fit) and the outcome evaluated by interpolating using the baselines. If I can imagine it, then I'm sure these studies have already been done. They belong to science and I don't expect every audio manufacturer to invest in doing their own research. But the research is probably out there for whoever is interested.

My point is that there is a lot we can learn about audio gear from measuring it. But it's true that we'll need to educate ourselves to understand what these measurements can tell us. Maybe this is what's putting off so many people.
I kept my post succinct because I know this thread has derailed before and I really do not want to contribute to another derailing, but I do think it is sometimes good to point out that there are a lot more nuances and caveats at play when you want to be scientific.

Take for instance your comment on measuring physiology. It is not as straightforward as it might seem. It is nowhere near as abstract as measurements in engineering. When we measure physiology we need to dissect, reduce and simplify, and in that process certain aspects are lost. While we might write down a physiological response as a linear thing, in reality it is nothing like that and instead is a complicated web of interactions that are inherently contingent. I don't mean to go into the details of this, but just to illustrate that the whole is something different from the sum of its components and that is the beauty of this hobby. Enjoying music, which I think is what draws most people into this hobby, is a complex experience that can really only be experienced by feeling it. To lie down, close your eyes and drift away in the sound. Anything less than that represents a component without context. That is why, in my own reviews, I aim to describe the music I hear as best I can in the hope that people get a sense of what it sounds like. I list the specific music I listen to, the source, the cable, the IEMs, so that anyone who reads it and likes what I describe can go out and demo to test for themselves if they hear it the same way.

The view I explain here is, I feel, a true 'music lover' way of being active in this hobby. That does not make it right or wrong, it is simply a view I have, that is what motivates me and that explains why I don't have that much use of measurements. For anyone who is more into the engineering side of this hobby it can be very different, for them measurements can be absolutely fascinating. That, I feel, is more the 'audiophile engineer' and is something completely different that has a different set of nuances and caveats. I think it is good to make those distinctions.
 
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Mar 6, 2019 at 3:45 AM Post #3,889 of 12,035
@frolly, I believe I'm having the same issue you are. I use the spiral dots with all my IEMs and find the comfort the best but the spiral dots with the Solaris is a no go. They cause a little bit of too much pressure and won't stay in. I use the Final E tips currently and it fixed the issue.
 
Mar 6, 2019 at 6:32 AM Post #3,890 of 12,035
PW Audio 1950s - Sounds neutral with the Solaris. A little better than the stock cable. Cables change an IEM's sound by 5-10% at max. This cable is a little better than the stock. It's a very neutral cable. I would say that the stock cable sounds a little unpolished compared to this. The stock cable sounds as if there are some rough edges that this cable removes. Overall, not a huge improvement, def not worth its price. I would pay at most $400 for the amount of sound upgrade it provides. Think of this as a neutral cable refined to an extreme degree but that's about it.

PW Audio 1960s 4 wire - Makes the Solaris "thicker". This is a typical copper cable. I would even say this is one of the best Copper Cables I have heard. It's very detailed for Copper which was a shocker. One interesting thing it does is that it makes the vocals airy and increases the soundstage by quite a bit. The vocals are just amazing with this. Bass is looser but has more impact. If want a thicker Solaris, this comes very close to a perfect cable however it does what every other copper cable does and makes the Solaris thicker and warmer. It kind of mutes the Treble. Overall if you are into this type of sound, I would this is good at say $1000.
 
Mar 6, 2019 at 6:50 AM Post #3,891 of 12,035
PW Audio 1950s - Sounds neutral with the Solaris. A little better than the stock cable. Cables change an IEM's sound by 5-10% at max. This cable is a little better than the stock. It's a very neutral cable. I would say that the stock cable sounds a little unpolished compared to this. The stock cable sounds as if there are some rough edges that this cable removes. Overall, not a huge improvement, def not worth its price. I would pay at most $400 for the amount of sound upgrade it provides. Think of this as a neutral cable refined to an extreme degree but that's about it.

PW Audio 1960s 4 wire - Makes the Solaris "thicker". This is a typical copper cable. I would even say this is one of the best Copper Cables I have heard. It's very detailed for Copper which was a shocker. One interesting thing it does is that it makes the vocals airy and increases the soundstage by quite a bit. The vocals are just amazing with this. Bass is looser but has more impact. If want a thicker Solaris, this comes very close to a perfect cable however it does what every other copper cable does and makes the Solaris thicker and warmer. It kind of mutes the Treble. Overall if you are into this type of sound, I would this is good at say $1000.

PW makes some fantastic cables. I'm not big on cable differences, and I don't think most cables are worth anywhere near the asking price - but if someone was offering to get me a cable, I'd take a PW audio one.
 
Mar 6, 2019 at 7:26 AM Post #3,892 of 12,035
Seems like everyone needs some Solrais porn.
20190306_212138.jpg
 
Mar 6, 2019 at 8:01 AM Post #3,894 of 12,035
I'm new to this world so forgive me - but if the requirement is that the Solaris need burn in, if that does indeed affect the sound, wouldn't the tested units by definition have variance between them?

I very much enjoy reading this thread, hugely informative and helpful people on here - however, given the above, what's the issue? Fine if that's your hobby, but I'd just go and try them and see if I like them.

As for CA - I called and asked for help on deciding which IEM to buy some time ago, the guy I spoke to spent 20 mins on the phone with me talking through the different models, in minute detail about the difference in sound. Can't say I've had that kind of customer experience from another company before. Ended up with Andro Green and Vega - but after hearing Solaris the Andro are going to have to be sold!
 
Mar 6, 2019 at 8:17 AM Post #3,895 of 12,035
PW Audio 1950s - Sounds neutral with the Solaris. A little better than the stock cable. Cables change an IEM's sound by 5-10% at max. This cable is a little better than the stock. It's a very neutral cable. I would say that the stock cable sounds a little unpolished compared to this. The stock cable sounds as if there are some rough edges that this cable removes. Overall, not a huge improvement, def not worth its price. I would pay at most $400 for the amount of sound upgrade it provides. Think of this as a neutral cable refined to an extreme degree but that's about it.

PW Audio 1960s 4 wire - Makes the Solaris "thicker". This is a typical copper cable. I would even say this is one of the best Copper Cables I have heard. It's very detailed for Copper which was a shocker. One interesting thing it does is that it makes the vocals airy and increases the soundstage by quite a bit. The vocals are just amazing with this. Bass is looser but has more impact. If want a thicker Solaris, this comes very close to a perfect cable however it does what every other copper cable does and makes the Solaris thicker and warmer. It kind of mutes the Treble. Overall if you are into this type of sound, I would this is good at say $1000.
wow... nice cable u should post pic here...

Solaris is quite unique, really source sensitive, from Song file, DAP even Cable can change Sound signature. IMO.
When I was demoing Solaris pairing ZX300 with Abnormal 4.4mm, I found the Hi Mid was tight and detail. something that Cayin N5iiS not able to determine...
 
Mar 6, 2019 at 8:31 AM Post #3,896 of 12,035
I'm new to this world so forgive me - but if the requirement is that the Solaris need burn in, if that does indeed affect the sound, wouldn't the tested units by definition have variance between them?

I very much enjoy reading this thread, hugely informative and helpful people on here - however, given the above, what's the issue? Fine if that's your hobby, but I'd just go and try them and see if I like them.

As for CA - I called and asked for help on deciding which IEM to buy some time ago, the guy I spoke to spent 20 mins on the phone with me talking through the different models, in minute detail about the difference in sound. Can't say I've had that kind of customer experience from another company before. Ended up with Andro Green and Vega - but after hearing Solaris the Andro are going to have to be sold!

In this particular case, the individual has said he made it a point to get ~10 hours of listening on each demo unit and took multiple measurements of each demo over several weeks to ensure consistency, so the "burn in" argument doesn't really apply.

The issue is really that "go and try (a demo unit)" can't be the solution if the question is whether Solaris #1 sounds like Solaris #2. If I lived in the US, where I have access to Campfire Audio's great customer service, I could buy one, maybe find out that I don't like it as much as the demo, and then return it at at loss of $20~30 for shipping. Unfortunately, living halfway across the world, whichever local distributor they get would tell me to pound sand if I tried that here (and if I went through Campfire, I'd be out $350~400 between import duties and international shipping).

I don't know if I can emphasize this enough: the reason why I want to see a solution here is precisely because I like Campfire IEMs and because I would love to get one if I audition one and find out I like it. If I wasn't interested in getting one, I wouldn't be wasting my time following this thread. Perhaps the answer is Campfire Audio providing measurements with each IEM like some other IEM manufacturers, since they go through the trouble to match each pair carefully already, so that the consumers have more data to reference. Perhaps the answer is them coming out and saying "hey, we checked the IEMs, and that one particular one at X location was a dud". I don't know. I'm sure there's an answer to this somewhere.
 
Mar 6, 2019 at 9:58 AM Post #3,897 of 12,035
Type e tips are more comfortable but I like the bass response of the foams better it also takes the edge of the highs. I will definitely try the aliexpress gum tips soon.
 
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Mar 6, 2019 at 10:06 AM Post #3,898 of 12,035
Type e tips are more comfortable but I like the bass response of the foams better it also takes the edge of the highs. I will definitely try the aliexpress gum tips soon.

If you can get a hold of them, E-pro tips could work for you as well
 
Mar 6, 2019 at 10:09 AM Post #3,899 of 12,035
Mar 6, 2019 at 8:15 PM Post #3,900 of 12,035

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