[rutter]

Ugh, I like my female vocals:

Just from demos, Z1R has far better bass and build but has a leaner midrange. Solaris is a bit more ergonomic due to a lighter weight construction but definitely has a bit of a upper midrange suckout that just kills electric guitars and female vocals.

The problem with the Solaris is that the upper midrange suckout varies and its really impossible to know what you're going to get until you get it.

Is there an upper midrange suckout that does this?

 

[SilverEars]

Ugh, I like my female vocals:



Is there an upper midrange suckout that does this?

Interesting, and the graph shows dip in the 4-6k, but the Solaris I've heard seemed fine, and didn't notice odd tonal behavior to point out. Perhaps I had a set that was more leveled response? Or can we say it's insertion depth dependence?

For me, Tia Forte, iSines/LCDi4, SE5U are much obvious when it comes to mids tonality being off. With the Solaris that wasn't the case actually.

What I notice is, the perception of more of the distant sounding articulation (with it's large sound stage), but this changed once I tried narrower bore size tips, which I think was, more of focus on the treble with narrower bore size, bringing the sound forward. In the case of Solaris, narrowing the bore size didn't effect the imaging like it does on the Andro.

Here's Crin's graph showing variance of the upper-mids to treble with different ones

 

[Rockwell75]

The bass is definitely not perfect in terms of impact/air/tonality, it does a lot worse than a lot of other dynamic driver hybrids like the Hyla CE-5 and Sony IER-Z1R that seem to use the dynamic driver alone for the heavy lifting in the bass region. The Solaris' bass is kind of limited in terms of macrodynamics, which is probably due to Campfire Audio seemingly running the BA and dynamic driver in parallel for coherency reasons. Its a conscious trade off on the part of Campfire Audio, doing it like this adds body to the midrange and maintains coherency...but saying that they're perfect is seriously adding a whole lot of sauce.

Sorry man I'd forgotten that I was supposed to run my subjective impressions by you before posting them. What's your interest in the Solaris? Have you ever heard it? Were you ever seriously considering buying it at some point? Do you have any interest in this thread apart from using it as a platform to hype the Z1R?

Regarding my comment, please consider it in context. @fokta was asking me about what I thought about the quantity of bass in the Solaris, but it was a loaded question which I interpreted as "Are you, a person whose signature until yesterday read 'Campfire Atlas rules them all' satisfied with the amount of bass in the Solaris, an IEM described by some as bean lean on bass?" So when I responded that the bass was "perfect" I was saying that, imho, coming straight from the Atlas the quantity of bass in the Solaris left nothing to be desired. Admittedly the word "perfect" is a strong (and in this case probably not ideal) one but I stand by the statement (and really you have absolutely no business contradicting this) that the impact and quantity of the bass in the Solaris leaves nothing to be desired...to me. It's also worth noting, and this was also implicit in my reply, that my response yesterday was based on my first few hours with the Solaris and that I planned on "leaving more detailed impressions later".

I'm not a professional reviewer and I don't pretend or imply that my impressions should be given any weight beyond that a Campfire fanboy posting in the Solaris thread on Head-Fi. So when you say "the bass is definitely not perfect in terms of impact/air/tonality" and that it is "kind of limited in terms of macrodynamics"-- I have no reply beyond that of someone who, when listening to his favorite music on the Solaris, finds nothing wanting and can't wipe the smile off his face. However when you say that "it's a conscious trade off on the part of Campfire Audio, doing it like this adds body to the midrange and maintains coherency" I'm tempted to suspect that it was a good decision on the part of Campfire Audio and that in this case maybe the whole is greater and more important than the sum of the parts.

 

[rutter]

Isn't narrower bore size supposed to improve bass, not treble?

 

[jeffreyw311]

Sorry man I'd forgotten that I was supposed to run my subjective impressions by you before posting them. What's your interest in the Solaris? Have you ever heard it? Were you ever seriously considering buying it at some point? Do you have any interest in this thread apart from using it as a platform to hype the Z1R?

You don't have to run your subjective impressions before me but this is a forum when I last checked. I'm free to respond to things I don't agree with or see fit. As for your questions...

1. As a former owner of an Orion, Jupiter, Lyra 2 and Andromeda, obviously I have an interest in this brand.
2. Yes I've heard it. It is very good but the bass is absolutely not exceptional. Don't notice the suckout but can't say much about it since I've only heard one sample.
3. Yes and still am if they can prove that the sample I get will be exactly the same as the sample I demo at Addicted to Audio. I can't return it because of hygiene laws, which forces a 15% restocking fee. I'm not eating $330 if I get a sample that isn't good enough.
4. Its really got nothing to do with the Z1R, I was only really brought here because of Ken Ball's super evasive answers to something he's previously willing to provide: measurements/target curves of his previous IEMs like the Andromeda and Vega. The IER-Z1R being highlighted is merely because Sony's proven that it isn't an impossible task to get pretty consistent samples with hybrid earphones.

I'm not a professional reviewer and I don't pretend or imply that my impressions should be given any weight beyond that a Campfire fanboy posting in the Solaris thread on Head-Fi. So when you say "the bass is definitely not perfect in terms of impact/air/tonality" and that it is "kind of limited in terms of macrodynamics"-- I have no reply beyond that of someone who, when listening to his favorite music on the Solaris, finds nothing wanting and can't wipe the smile off his face. However when you say that "it's a conscious trade off on the part of Campfire Audio, doing it like this adds body to the midrange and maintains coherency" I'm tempted to suspect that it was a good decision on the part of Campfire Audio and that in this case maybe the whole is greater and more important than the sum of the parts.

Which is exactly why the Solaris itself is a very good IEM. But the choice to seemingly blend the BA driver and DD woofer is also exactly reason is why the quantity/quality of sub-bass is honestly insufficient compared to a whole lot of dynamic driver and hybrid IEMs.

 

[BananaOoyoo]

If you're in the states (and especially if you don't have easy access to IEMs in stores), definitely not a bad idea to order them and try them out. It's not like domestic shipping is that expensive, and Campfire seems to have a pretty good return policy.

I'd just recommend going into it with an open mind. Don't hype yourself into liking them or overthink about the unit variance - maybe you love them and decide to keep them, maybe you hate it and rip them off your ears within the first 5 seconds, and maybe you'll find that it's not quite so black and white (and will have to make a difficult decision).

 

[Rockwell75]

You don't have to run your subjective impressions before me but this is a forum when I last checked. I'm free to respond to things I don't agree with or see fit.

Right but my point here is that you are (perhaps unintentionally) speaking as though your impressions (the bass is not exceptional) somehow trump mine (the bass is exceptional). We are all entitled to our opinion but don't act like yours are aglow with a halo of objectivity.

Yes I've heard it. It is very good but the bass is absolutely not exceptional.

I heard it too and I wholeheartedly disagree.

But the choice to seemingly blend the BA driver and DD woofer is also exactly reason is why the quantity/quality of sub-bass is honestly insufficient compared to a whole lot of dynamic driver and hybrid IEMs.

So don't buy it? *** if you don't like product and feel you could get something better somewhere else then keep looking. Don't keep complaining because you're not getting the answers you want or disagree with design choices. I've heard it and find that quality and quantity of sub-bass is just right (for my tastes-- which are all that matter to me at the end of the day). It's everything I want in an IEM.

 

[Rockwell75]

Their impressions were on the whole positive with many of the issues boiling down to fit. One person who commented on the "sucked out mids" completely remedied the problem with a change of tips. I tried two units yesterday-- the demo and the one I bought-- and I didn't hear anything resembling "sucked out mids" in either.

 

[rutter]

Not what I was reading. By the way, the other guy is coming at this from more points of reference, i.e. iems.

 

[jeffreyw311]

So don't buy it? *** if you don't like product and feel you could get something better somewhere else then keep looking. Don't keep complaining because you're not getting the answers you want or disagree with design choices. I've heard it and find that quality and quantity of sub-bass is just right (for my tastes-- which are all that matter to me at the end of the day). It's everything I want in an IEM.

Wasn't aware this was the Campfire Audio Solaris Hugbox thread. Like, if Campfire Audio/Ken Ball can confirm that I'm not going to play Russian roulette with these IEMs by actually answering the questions asked instead of dodging them like any evasive politician caught in a scandal, then I'd 100% buy one. That's how much I like these. Nothing is perfect and I think its erroneous to say that bass is exceptional. Just like how you have your opinion, I have mine.

 

[toranku]

Isn't narrower bore size supposed to improve bass, not treble?

Narrow bore decreases treble and shifts the tonal balance towards the bass.

 

[Rockwell75]

Like, if Campfire Audio/Ken Ball can confirm that I'm not going to play Russian roulette with these IEMs by actually answering the questions

Well apparently he's not going to answer the questions to your satisfaction so you can either a) accept that and move on or b) take the chance. Coming back every couple weeks to throw tantrums and accusations around doesn't accomplish anything. Personally I think the whole unit variance thing was either an exaggeration, a fabrication or an anomaly-- in any case it wasn't enough to stop me from taking the plunge. But that was my choice, and I was rewarded with a great IEM.

Nothing is perfect and I think its erroneous to say that bass is exceptional. Just like how you have your opinion, I have mine.

I can roll with that.

 

[BananaOoyoo]

Well apparently he's not going to answer the questions to your satisfaction so you can either a) accept that and move on or b) take the chance. Coming back every couple weeks to throw tantrums and accusations around doesn't accomplish anything. Personally I think the whole unit variance thing was either an exaggeration, a fabrication or an anomaly-- in any case it wasn't enough to stop me from taking the plunge. But that was my choice, and I was rewarded with a great IEM.

"Take the chance" is honestly an awful option for anyone without direct access (i.e. no international shipping/import duties) to Campfire Audio & their return policy. This isn't the $200 Comet we're talking about here.

 

[Rockwell75]

the other guy is coming at this from more points of reference, i.e. iems.

I get that. I really like the bass on the Solaris though. I would never claim it's the best, or couldn't be bettered-- but it doesn't leave me wanting more and it completely fulfills its role in contributing to what is a marvelously balanced and satisfying sound signature. My enthusiastic reply to fokta yesterday was rooted in the fact that I had been lead to believe that the Solaris was lacking in bass. As someone who was in love with the Atlas for its meaty and powerful low end this was troubling. Suffice to say yesterday, after listening to my Atlas for 6+ straight hours and when switching to the Solaris finding myself not missing anything in terms of bass..I was surprised to say the least. Are there IEMs with better bass? Most definitely. I guess my point is that I like the Solaris enough that I have no desire to seek them out. I'm hoping to make all of this more clear in a more detailed impression later on.

 

[jeffreyw311]

Well apparently he's not going to answer the questions to your satisfaction so you can either a) accept that and move on or b) take the chance. Coming back every couple weeks to throw tantrums and accusations around doesn't accomplish anything. Personally I think the whole unit variance thing was either an exaggeration, a fabrication or an anomaly-- in any case it wasn't enough to stop me from taking the plunge. But that was my choice, and I was rewarded with a great IEM.

Actually he can by actually answering the question being asked and providing information that he's done with a good number of his flagship IEMs previously. I'm willing to throw tantrums if it reminds everyone that Campfire Audio is literally dodging the issue of product variance since its only beneficial to all of us and the hobby if manufacturers can't just get away with half-assed quality control because people "subjectively liked the product enough".

If it was an exaggeration, fabrication or anomaly, Ken Ball is welcome to solve the entire situation providing the target curve and answering the issue of product variance (and not deflecting with claims that he channel matches) like he's done with with the Andromeda and Vega. But he's not doing this, why should I trust someone purposely dodging the issue by not providing information previously provided on previous flagships and intentionally dodging the issue? No reason for me to throw up my arms and go "welp who cares, people subjectively like the product enough".

Like I want to buy the Solaris. But why should I buy the Solaris if I'm not certain about what I'm getting? Taking the plunge might make sense if Campfire Audio said nothing since it could just be an anomaly. But a manufacturer intentionally running interference and being extremely cagey with previously divulged information tells me something is definitely up.