Cambridge Audio Azur 640C vs. Rega Planet 2000?

[elnero]

Even though I'm happy with how my system is sounding I think I could probably improve on it even more with a source upgrade. This isn't something I'm in any big rush to do so I've been researching different options from outboard non-oversampling DAC's either commercial or DIY, modding the Cambridge or just upgrading to a new player. Most of the players that intrigue me are a bit out of my price range but a used Rega Planet 2000 can be found for reasonable prices and in the long run would probably prove to be the cheapest solution as I could sell the Cambridge to make up some of the cost.

The problem I see is I'm not sure just how much of an upgrade the Planet would actually be or if it might just be a sidestep to a different sound and therefore not worth it for me to bother. Has anyone heard these two players that could offer some opinions?

 

[elnero]

Anyone???

 

[lant5]

Haven't tried a Planet but did spend a weekend with a demo Jupiter. I prefered the Cambridge 640 over the Jupiter. The Jupiter was very polite, smooth but to the point that detail, pace, and space all seemed to be lacking.

 

[insomniac]

I'm interested in any thoughts about this too

 

[saint.panda]

Actually, I just went to a local hifi store today because a friend of mine is planning to build a hifi system from scratch. We got listen to a broad range of integrated amps and cd players and headphones (I got to listen to a real PS1

). We tried the NAD 521, Cambrigde Azur 640C and an equivalent Denon cdp in the same price range. Then we moved on to the Rega Planet 2000 (2004 version) and Naim CD5i and a Shanling T100, a Rotel player for around 1000$ and some even more expensive players when my concentration already started to fade.

About Azur 640c vs. Rega 2000: The difference in MSRP is not justified IMO but a used Rega 2000 for 500 used is a really good deal. The Rega has a lot of PRaT. Toe-tapping all the time. The bass is nicer and warmer, the midrange is very smooth leaning to wooly depeding on your listening taste. The highs are detailed but not as aggressive as on the Azur. The highs sound really "round" if you can put it that way. The Cambridge was a bit more neutral. However, note that warm doesn't mean that the Rega can't be paired with already smooth components. Despite its smooth character, resolution and detailing was still excellent. Both the HD650 and RS1 sounded excellent out of the Rega and I preferred the Rega to the Azur with all headphones. (As amp we used a X-can V3.) I think it is a general misconception that warm source + warm amp + warm headphones + warm etc. = TOO warm. IMO that is not always correct because synergy is not all about math.
I've never listened to a high end vinyl setup but I can understand why people would rate the Rega as analog-sounding. There really isn't any harshness.

Whether going from the Azur to Rega is an upgrade or sidestep really is difficult to say because they are different beasts. The Rega 2000 is loved by many but I can also understand how its idiosyncratic tonal character might repel others. Honestly speaking for 525$ you should also consider getting an Ack Dack which has a really excellent reputation and considered to have a similar sound signature as the Rega (smooth and analogish). I have pm-ed some people here at headfi and usually the reply was that the Ack has more resolution while the Rega has more PRaT. (I think I asked Canman and Dave1. btw, thanks for the replies guys.). I personally would buy the Ack Dack but for a one-box solution I'd go for a used Rega. This player just makes you feel good

 

[nanahachi]

thanks for the impressions saint.panda!

i'm curious too, has anyone modded a Cambridge?

 

[elnero]

Thanks for the info saint.panda, that was very informative. I'm very tempted to pick up a Planet simply to try it out, if I like it I'll sell the Cambridge, if not I'll flip it over and hopefully not take much of a loss on it. It's a tempting prospect.

The dAck! is also high on my list but for that I would have to save the full amount because I would have to use the Cambridge as a transport so therefore it's going to take some more time saving. I'm looking at the possibility of getting someone to build me a cheaper version of a non-oversampling DAC like a NONOZ III just so I can get a taste for what they sound like.

Of course my other two options are to mod the Cambridge which could run anywhere from $300 - 1200 depending on what I decided to get done. Seeing as I'm already fairly happy with the Cambridge this to is a strong option.

Saving up for a higher end player would be nice but in all reality it's not likely going to happen. Actually from what I've read about it the Naim CD5i has intrigued me greatly, how did you feel it sounded in comparison to the others?

 

[jmzzz01]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero Of course my other two options are to mod the Cambridge which could run anywhere from $300 - 1200 depending on what I decided to get done. Seeing as I'm already fairly happy with the Cambridge this to is a strong option.

Just curious - What are some of the mod options? Are these mods that you would do yourself or send it out to a shop? $300 doesn't seem too bad but for the top end of the range, I wonder if it would be cost effective, or if you would be further ahead to just sell your Cambrodge and move into the used market of a much more expensive unit? $1200 plus the residual from your Cambridge would open a lot of doors...

 

[insomniac]

Yes, thanks for the impressions. Does anyone know how the Music Hall CD-25 fits into this picture?

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmzzz01 Just curious - What are some of the mod options? Are these mods that you would do yourself or send it out to a shop? $300 doesn't seem too bad but for the top end of the range, I wonder if it would be cost effective, or if you would be further ahead to just sell your Cambrodge and move into the used market of a much more expensive unit? $1200 plus the residual from your Cambridge would open a lot of doors...

Those were general prices from email conversations with Parts Connexion. They have never seen the inside of the player so were giving me a general idea on what expected costs would be to just do a parts mod or full on mod replacing the clock, etc. I wouldn't be going for the full on mods but more in the low end of the pricing. The thing with modding though is it wouldn't have to be done all at once, I could get the basic parts upgrades for an estimated $300 - 500 depending on what's in there and then look into the more advanced mods down the road. I do agree though, if I was going to lay out $1200 + up front I'd be more tempted to go with a higher end player either used or new but modding in steps would allow me to upgrade for a minimal amount of money and probably maximize my investment at the time.

 

[jmzzz01]

Good idea.

I wonder about all this modding that's going on - I never listened to a modded unit so I cannot judge the validity of the claims, but it's as though in the last year or two it has exploded and these companies are comming out of the woodwork with all these level 1, level 2, etc., modifications. It seems to me that if it were just a matter of changing a few components, using better wire, caps, etc., the OEM could incorporate it into their line with very little cost, being able to buy parts in quantity, etc. They spend a considerable amount of time in product development and must be familiar with the different sound qualities asscociated with these components. I just wonder if this is sort of like the lo-carb craze and people are selling their mod packages into the feeding frenzy.

Just an observation - not a conclusion...I have a 640c due to arrive tomorrow and am interested to see where your quest ends (actually, it never ends, does it. That's the fun part). - Jim

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero Saving up for a higher end player would be nice but in all reality it's not likely going to happen. Actually from what I've read about it the Naim CD5i has intrigued me greatly, how did you feel it sounded in comparison to the others?

Hard to say because I only got to listen to the Naim from speakers and I don't have a lot of speaker experience. One thing that can be said though is that the build quality just blew me away. The dealer (who was really honest and friendly and who had a lot of fun showing us all the stuff because he didn't have anything to do anyway...

) told me that the Naim supposedly has a a similar sound signature as the Rega, just better in almost all areas. He told me that because I was asking for analog-sounding players such as the Rega. However, I didn't really like the pricetag (1200 Euros compared to 900 Euros for the Rega) and it's hard to find a used Naim CD5i.

At the end of the day, the dealer told me secretly that I should just get an old Marantz CD 63 or 67 and go to his colleague who apparently can mod the player to a level comparable to a Marantz CD 12 level (2500Euros)

So I think mods really is the best price-performance thing to do.
Also, I didn't find a lot of information on how to mod a Rega and whether it can be done at all.

Btw, what is this NONOZ III you were talking about?

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmzzz01 Good idea. I wonder about all this modding that's going on - I never listened to a modded unit so I cannot judge the validity of the claims, but it's as though in the last year or two it has exploded and these companies are comming out of the woodwork with all these level 1, level 2, etc., modifications. It seems to me that if it were just a matter of changing a few components, using better wire, caps, etc., the OEM could incorporate it into their line with very little cost, being able to buy parts in quantity, etc. They spend a considerable amount of time in product development and must be familiar with the different sound qualities asscociated with these components. I just wonder if this is sort of like the lo-carb craze and people are selling their mod packages into the feeding frenzy. Just an observation - not a conclusion...I have a 640c due to arrive tomorrow and am interested to see where your quest ends (actually, it never ends, does it. That's the fun part). - Jim

I've been around modding for quite some time. Back in the early 90's I became friends with Michael Thompson of Audio Upgrades in Toronto so I'm well aware of the benefits that can be had.

The thing is most manufacturers are trying to bring out products within a certain price range so they have to make compromises in parts, this is especially true of the more budget oriented gear. A third party can upgrade the more mediocre components with audiophile grade parts and bring new life to the piece usually for a reasonable cost. This stays within the intended spec but just uses better quality components to achieve better sound quality. You can then change things like clock, psu's, etc.. which IMO is going beyond the designers intent but can yield good results as well. It's a price/performance ratio. For the most part you'll get better sound quality from a modded player for the same dollar but then there's is actual build quality to consider. Taking a cheap DVD player and modding it may make it sound good but at it's heart it's still a cheap DVD player so there is still something to be said for going with higher end gear in this respect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda Btw, what is this NONOZ III you were talking about?

Thanks again saint.panda. The NONOZ III is a DIY non-oversampling DAC. I don't have enough confidence to build one myself but I'm thinking about trying to find someone to do it for me. There is also the DDDAC1543 which is a little more advanced but offered in a pretty much complete kit package that again I would look at getting someone to build. Even getting someone to build one of these I think it would probably come out a bit cheaper than most of the commercial non-oversampling DAC's but I may be wrong.

 

[replytoken]

While I am not a huge fan of mods, I can understand the appeal of it if it suits you. I just returned a Rega Planet 2000 after being able to listen to it for two days. While some of my observations are posted in another thread, I will say that as much as I belive in source first, speakers cannot be ignored. I thought my speakers were up to the task, but alas it seems that they were not. And while my Etys picked up a few more differences, I do not believe that the improvement was worth the $. I will revisit the quality of my source, but only after I can start hearing the differences. Everybody has their own budget as to what they will spend and what they will receive in return. Personally, I look at the opportunity cost in terms of how much music I can buy with the $ I want to spend. The price of a new CDP can buy lots of music, and that's what is important to me. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero Those were general prices from email conversations with Parts Connexion.

Why parts connexion? If you decide on modding it you better send that thing to Mike for a new analogue stage! ^^

(or if you are crazy like me do both hehe...)

Biggie.