[GreenNeedle]

Well I must have caught the bug because I just bought a Trio KR-3600. Was planning to get something to either replace the Rotel RX-150A or just put in the kids bedroom to replace a cheap nasty mini amp they use for the PS4 / bluetooth. 22W per channel vs the Rotel 8W per channel Hmmm. Will have to test when they get here. Hope the Rotel wins (on sound) because it looks lovelier.

Sorry to fill up the thread with "baby" amps but I don't do house parties and English houses have smallish rooms anyway.

 

[BobG55]

Well I must have caught the bug because I just bought a Trio KR-3600. Was planning to get something to either replace the Rotel RX-150A or just put in the kids bedroom to replace a cheap nastly mini amp they use for the PS4 / bluetooth. 22W per channel vs the Rotel 8W per channel Hmmm. Will have to test when they get here. Hope the Rotel wins (on sound) because it looks lovelier.

Sorry to fill up the thread with "baby" amps but I don;t do house parties and English houses have smallish rooms anyway.

Congratulations GreenNeedle. If you can post a couple of photographs we could all see you're new addition. Like when you have a baby, you know ...

 

[squee116]

Well I must have caught the bug because I just bought a Trio KR-3600. Was planning to get something to either replace the Rotel RX-150A or just put in the kids bedroom to replace a cheap nasty mini amp they use for the PS4 / bluetooth. 22W per channel vs the Rotel 8W per channel Hmmm. Will have to test when they get here. Hope the Rotel wins (on sound) because it looks lovelier.

Sorry to fill up the thread with "baby" amps but I don't do house parties and English houses have smallish rooms anyway.

Depending on whether the PS4 headphone is used for a headset, a USB amp might be necessary. If it's just for audio out, no problem though.

 

[GreenNeedle]

Depending on whether the PS4 headphone is used for a headset, a USB amp might be necessary. If it's just for audio out, no problem though.

They are only 12 and 13 so they don't do call of duty or anything like that. Just audio optical out > digital to analog converter > cheap handsized amp > Speakers. PS4 only has optical out and no RCAs. Basically it is because TV speakers are carp

 

[penmarker]

They are only 12 and 13 so they don't do call of duty or anything like that. Just audio optical out > digital to analog converter > cheap handsized amp > Speakers. PS4 only has optical out and no RCAs. Basically it is because TV speakers are carp

This is in no way a vintage amp, you can try the Topping MX3. They're super small, like hand sized, and has several both digital and analog inputs.
Again, sorry for recommending a non vintage amp. Its not suitable for this thread I know.

 

[r2muchstuff]

Here is the latest news.

Battle of the Amps, this will take a while. I prefer to compare with longer listening sessions, not quick A/B test.
First impressions are .... these Amps have similar SQ.

Based on the specifications the amps are similar

The Pioneer SA 8500 has been serviced by the same shop that did the AU 7700.

Sanusi - 54 watts/channel @ 8 Ohms, < .1% THD, < .15% IM for Pre and Main Amps combined, < .1% IM Main Amp only - Headphone out uses 220 Ohm 1 Watt resistors
1974 -1976

Pioneer - 60 watts/channel @ 8 Ohms, < .1% THD, < .1% IM for Pre and Main Amps combined, - Headphone out uses 150 Ohm 2 Watt resistors
1975-1977

Setup:
Setup # 1:
iPod Nano 3rd Gen 8GB loaded with ALAC rips (Various Blues) from CDs > Pure Digital iPod Dock > Coax > Schiit Modi Multibit > Rigid Y cross connect v2 (for Schiit Stack) > PYST RCA > Sansui Aux In OR Pioneer Aux in > Headphone Jack Out > Beyerdynamic DT880 Manufaktur 600 Ohms.
This setup allows the use of all Pre Amp controls.

Set Up #2
iPod Nano 3rd Gen 8GB loaded with ALAC rips (Various Blues) from CDs > Pure Digital iPod Dock > Coax > Schiit Modi Multibit > Rigid Y cross connect v2 (for Schiit Stack) > Schiit Vali 2 with adapter for 6SN7 tube > Vali 2 Pre Out > Kenable RCA > Sansui OR Pioneer Main Amp IN (Sansui Combined/Separated Switch set to Separated, Pioneer jumpers from Pre to Main are removed) > Headphone Jack Out > Beyerdynamic DT880 Manufaktur 600 Ohms.
This setup only allows control of volume from the Vali 2, the Sansui & Pioneer Pre Amps are off line.

Note - The Beyerdynamic DT880 Manufaktur 600 Ohms continue to impress me out of the Vintage Amps.

JMTC,
r2

I have finally dismantled the test stack.

After all this time here is my short conclusion for headphone use:

The Pioneer is the winner.

The Sansui is just fine, without the Pioneer to campair aganist it would be a keeper.

I tested with various headphones with and without impedance adapters.
More importantly, I tested with amps as integrated (built in pre and main amps connected as usual) and as power amps using the Schiit Vali 2 as the pre amp.
As integrated amps all the controls built into the amps are available for use, such as volume, tone, balance, loudness & filters. As power amps only the controls of the Vali 2 are available, which is volume control.

Both amps sound very close when using the Vali 2 as pre amp.
The built in pre amps add flavor to the sound and with old amps these pre amp controls can/may add issues and problems. If nothing else the old switches can be flakey.

The Pioneer comes across as cleaner and more detailed. Not music genre pickey.
The Sansui comes across as more fun but in the long run not as clean. Rock guitars are great here.

In all cases I came to prefer the Pioneer.
As an integrated amp when I wanted tone control and all and via the Vali 2 when I wanted the best sound possible from this setup.

As always,
IMHO, JMTC & YMMV
r2

 

[r2muchstuff]

So...
Now I want a Schiit Saga and a Saga sized "Loki" to use as the pre amp for my collection of vintage integrated amps.

The vintage are great and fun but I am finding that their pre sections "hold back" the amp sections.
I have tested this theory with several vintage setups, not just the "test" setup discussed above.

When the amps are off the shelf, out of storage and CLA'd the pre sections are not keeping up with the abilities of the CLA'd amp sections.
However, if the pre amp section of a vintage amp is in really great shape/to spec and or upgraded then all bets may be off.

For me, I will continue to enjoy my vintage collections and my newer Schiit and stuffs. It may just become more of a combination of the two.

IMHO,
r2

 

[hemipowered007]

So...
Now I want a Schiit Saga and a Saga sized "Loki" to use as the pre amp for my collection of vintage integrated amps.

The vintage are great and fun but I am finding that their pre sections "hold back" the amp sections.
I have tested this theory with several vintage setups, not just the "test" setup discussed above.

When the amps are off the shelf, out of storage and CLA'd the pre sections are not keeping up with the abilities of the CLA'd amp sections.
However, if the pre amp section of a vintage amp is in really great shape/to spec and or upgraded then all bets may be off.

For me, I will continue to enjoy my vintage collections and my newer Schiit and stuffs. It may just become more of a combination of the two.

IMHO,
r2

I do enjoy using my ifi micro bl as a dac and preamp into my sx1010. Need more time to evaluate exactly what benefits it seems to have, but the last time I listened to it in that configuration with my he4, it seemed a tad more resolving. That could have also just been my brain making me think that. What I also enjoy is I can utilize the xbass and 3d effects of the black label if used as a preamp, also the tone controls on the sx1010. Although for the most part I keep everything off, it adds a fun factor to it especially on the he4 since it takes very well to equalization and tone control changes.

 

[r2muchstuff]

I do enjoy using my ifi micro bl as a dac and preamp into my sx1010. Need more time to evaluate exactly what benefits it seems to have, but the last time I listened to it in that configuration with my he4, it seemed a tad more resolving. That could have also just been my brain making me think that. What I also enjoy is I can utilize the xbass and 3d effects of the black label if used as a preamp, also the tone controls on the sx1010. Although for the most part I keep everything off, it adds a fun factor to it especially on the he4 since it takes very well to equalization and tone control changes.

What I think, for me, is that the newer pre sections have a "cleaner" SQ.

Stuff has flavors and I have always enjoyed using "knobs".
Tone, balance, loudness, filters and tube (op amp!) rolling have been and are at times used by me. Flavored sound is not a problem for me. Sometimes I feel like EQ adjustments and sometimes I like it clean.
Matching a headphone to an amp or a tube roll to get what sounds good to you is still EQ adjustment.

This is a long way to say that taking the controls off line is not a great thing for me. That is part of the reason I enjoy vintage.
But... clean/clarity is also a big thing with me.

I will be configuring several vintage systems with the option of newer pre amps or the matching/built in.

The Pioneer Spec 1/4 system is now able to be switched between the Spec 1 and a Mjolnir 2 as the active pre amp. This Spec 1 is in great condition with wonderful SQ. The MJ2 is tubes
Flavors, flavors and more flavors.

Ain't this stuff fun!,

 

[hemipowered007]

Oh don't get me wrong I use the tone controls on the sx1010, I just try not to for whatever reason trying to be some sort of puritan, but I'm not.

 

[r2muchstuff]

I should add that, IMHO, the vintage pre amps were fine 40 years ago. Time has not been great for all of the parts involved, switches especially give problems. Rebuilt they should / can / may preform very well.
It is however easier and potentially lest costly to use newer than to refurb.
All those switches and the number of parts involved make the pre amps more troublesome. The power amp sections are usually easier and less costly to refurb.
It is actually awesome that so many of these vintage are able to preform as well as they do, refurb or not.

 

[GreenNeedle]

Well, if anyone in the UK wants to buy the odd lamp bulb for the Kenwood/Trio then I can sort out a decent price seeing as the only ones I could get on ebay (I don't leave the house if I don't need to) was a German Seller offering bulk packs.. So I will have 15 x 8V 300ma (Main tuner lamps), 9 x 8V 200ma (Signal Strength) and 9 x 8V 50ma (Stereo signal indicator) left over if I don't break any. lol. Cost me more than the receiver itself (all including shipping of course) but I will make it back selling the excess on hopefully.

I've taken a few pictures of the Trio which I'll put up later. Bit disappointed really in aesthetics because it seems this unit was inbetween styles. The Wooden sides seem to have been added purely to ease consumers into the metal box era............I'm not keen on the black metal top.....so I've bought some more Macassar Ebony veneer and will get some MDF to make myself a proper box. Get the router working and end up with a Trio that looks like one of those Luxmans or better. Amazing FM reception on this amp. Not hooked it up to anything else yet. Will wait for the lights because that will make it sound better, he, he.

 

[SpeakerBox]

I have finally dismantled the test stack.

After all this time here is my short conclusion for headphone use:

The Pioneer is the winner.

The Sansui is just fine, without the Pioneer to campair aganist it would be a keeper.

I tested with various headphones with and without impedance adapters.
More importantly, I tested with amps as integrated (built in pre and main amps connected as usual) and as power amps using the Schiit Vali 2 as the pre amp.
As integrated amps all the controls built into the amps are available for use, such as volume, tone, balance, loudness & filters. As power amps only the controls of the Vali 2 are available, which is volume control.

Both amps sound very close when using the Vali 2 as pre amp.
The built in pre amps add flavor to the sound and with old amps these pre amp controls can/may add issues and problems. If nothing else the old switches can be flakey.

The Pioneer comes across as cleaner and more detailed. Not music genre pickey.
The Sansui comes across as more fun but in the long run not as clean. Rock guitars are great here.

In all cases I came to prefer the Pioneer.
As an integrated amp when I wanted tone control and all and via the Vali 2 when I wanted the best sound possible from this setup.

As always,
IMHO, JMTC & YMMV
r2

My SX-1250 blows away any amplifier I have used for both my speakers and my HD600s. In fact I am considering selling my Rowland Model 1 as the Pioneer even bests that in most respects. Of course it is restored with all audio grade caps (105 degrees C) and some of the transistors (sans the 22,000 UF cans and relay which I am doing this week). When restored I would put this receiver up against almost anything. Sound wise, it is a head turner and not to shabby looking IMHO.

The list of amps defeated by this receiver includes: Rowland Model 1, Proceed Amp 3, Amber Series 70, SAE 400L, and many other receivers.

 

[r2muchstuff]

My SX-1250 blows away any amplifier I have used for both my speakers and my HD600s. In fact I am considering selling my Rowland Model 1 as the Pioneer even bests that in most respects. Of course it is restored with all audio grade caps (105 degrees C) and some of the transistors (sans the 22,000 UF cans and relay which I am doing this week). When restored I would put this receiver up against almost anything. Sound wise, it is a head turner and not to shabby looking IMHO.

The list of amps defeated by this receiver includes: Rowland Model 1, Proceed Amp 3, Amber Series 70, SAE 400L, and many other receivers.

Yes, the big Pioneers are the real deal
I have a SX 1250 serving duty in my beverage/kitchen area. It is serviced/CLA'd but not as you say restored.
There is a SX 1280 waiting on a restore/rebuild such as your 1250. It is already great sounding as is in CLA'd only condition.
I prefer the 1250 for looks and build quality, the 1280 wins on tec and specs.
They rotate in and out of duty.

I have an Amber Series 70 also. In fact the pre, tuner and amp as a system. Not real sure of my satisfaction with it, glad to hear your take.
Any additional thoughts?

Thanks

 

[BobG55]

Oh don't get me wrong I use the tone controls on the sx1010, I just try not to for whatever reason trying to be some sort of puritan, but I'm not.

I tried being a puritan not long ago. My wife didn't stop laughing for a whole week.