[Currawong]

Now all that has to happen is for someone to build a portable amp the size of a Pico or Predator that does what the Wadia does, and we'll have the iMod craze all over again.

Portable amps with USB DACs built in are designed to be DACs for a computer, not an iPod, by the way. The purpose of a portable amp is to drive the headphones better than the crappy amp that's built into the iPod. This is especially useful if you like carrying around full-size headphones to listen with.

 

[daverich4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwhere /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, if you bypass the iPod's DAC, then what's the point of having an iPod? How would you convert the digitally encoded music back to analog?

Do the same as with the Wadia dock. Plug the iPod into a higher quality external DAC. As stated in my original post, I have a HeadRoom desktop amp with the MAX DAC in it. I just don't have room on the table next to my chair for something the size of the Wadia dock. I've already got a Squeezbox and a Duet so for me, the next step will be to get another Duet receiver and use that to drive my headphone setup instead of my iPod. Thanks again for all the replies.

-dave-

 

[olblueyez]

nevermind

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hypoicon /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as I know, the Wadia product is the only way to get a digital signal out. I got mine a few days ago and I love it. It blows away using the USB hook-up on my MacPro. I'm amazed at how gorgeous the thing sounds.

You said that the Wadia sounds "gorgeous." I do not doubt that but my question is how does it compare to a CD? I can't imagine that the Wadia is equal to a CD since the digital path is one more step removed from the original source.

 

[swt61]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwhere /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, if you bypass the iPod's DAC, then what's the point of having an iPod? How would you convert the digitally encoded music back to analog?

The point is using the iPod as a high quality digital source through a high quality DAC, plugged into your home system.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwhere /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, if you bypass the iPod's DAC, then what's the point of having an iPod? How would you convert the digitally encoded music back to analog?

you use it as a hard disk player in a home setup thats what. using these wadia type docks in conjunction with a quality home dac you get amazing SQ. so if you use lossless files then you can use that instead of a pricey cd player


edit: oops too late answered already. but the point is that you can get very high quality audio from a devbice that can store most if mot all of your CD collection with search and playlist features; then you can take it out and bring it with you too!!! marvelous. i'm dead keen on them theyre not too pricey either; much cheaper than a good CD player

 

[linuxworks]

the only ipods I use are the shuffle v1 and those are JUST like hard drives to me. and you can use gpl software that creates the apple database (which every working ipod needs) based on drag-drop mp3 files.

rebuild_db

a tiny tiny program you keep at the root of your shuffle and when you are ready to unplug the shuffle from usb, you run this program and it updates its db. that's it. then unplug the shuffle and its all set.

what this does is goes entirely around the 'apple value add' (cough cough) of not letting you copy or read back your song data as a regular usb drive.

NOW that you can see audio files 'just like normal files' you can simply use your shuffle as a usb drive and have any old computer access the song data and pump out on ITS spdif port, the song.

simple. but you have to be able to read your song data and apple kinda tries to fight the user about this ;(

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif you use it as a hard disk player in a home setup thats what. using these wadia type docks in conjunction with a quality home dac you get amazing SQ. so if you use lossless files then you can use that instead of a pricey cd player edit: oops too late answered already. but the point is that you can get very high quality audio from a devbice that can store most if mot all of your CD collection with search and playlist features; then you can take it out and bring it with you too!!! marvelous. i'm dead keen on them theyre not too pricey either; much cheaper than a good CD player

I love my iPod for what it is , but, no way can I get even 1/3 of my music collection in lossless format in 160GB, my collection is not huge, others here have much more than me.

As for price, $350 to bodge around Apple's design and and pay them a slice of licensing for someone to fix it seems a lot. My External soundcard takes a USB stream disentangles it , produces a bit-perfect S/PDIF output all for $80 and it even has it's own DAC and ADC for good measure !

 

[Champ04]

The iTransport doesnt operate via software but what it does cannot be done with a cable alone.
It does two important things to get to a spdif stream.
First it "tricks" the iPod into thinking its attached to a computer. That way the iPod will output its digital via USB protocol. Just as if you were transfering files.

Then there is a chip iside the iTransport that converts the USB to SPDIF.

And, in general, it sounds superior to a cd for a host of reasons.

 

[linuxworks]

but again, its trivial to plug a usb device into some kind of host (computer, even a fanless dedicated small form factor one) and then read data out till the cows come home

no big deal. my 10 yr old laptop can do that.

[obiwan]this is not the miracle you are looking for[/obiwan]

 

[The Monkey]

Maybe I'm missing something, but are people seriously questioning the usefulness of being able to tap the iPod's digital out with a cable?

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe I'm missing something, but are people seriously questioning the usefulness of being able to tap the iPod's digital out with a cable?

Yes.

My skepticism is not so much about the utility but more on a cost/benefit basis. I use my iPod as a portable source and sometimes as a source for my office system and jolly good it is in that context, it actually has a pretty good Wolfson DAC (I have a 5G) , very respectable measurements and has actually been used as a demo source for Wlson speakers at a CES.

The bypass route requires you to spend $350 for the bodge itself plus another say $300 for a DAC to get a marginal improvement on what you started with. Before we get into "it's a huge improvement " territory , consider this by any rational criteria the iPod is already a High Fidelity device. It has low dstortion a good dynamic range, a flat FR and a good SNR, it is by definiton a high fidelity device...

 

[The Monkey]

I am not talking about a $350 Wadia (or similar device), but rather an inexpensive or DIY cable that taps the digital out, which one can then feed into an amp/DAC of one's choosing. I realize that this has not yet been figured out (or widely publicized at least), but it is doable. That this would be a welcome and useful feature capable of increasing the SQ is, to me, obvious. Even accepting, for the moment, your assertion that such improvement would be marginal, many would argue that that's partially where this hobby lives: on the margins.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am not talking about a $350 Wadia (or similar device), but rather an inexpensive or DIY cable that taps the digital out, which one can then feed into an amp/DAC of one's choosing. I realize that this has not yet been figured out (or widely publicized at least), but it is doable. That this would be a welcome and useful feature capable of increasing the SQ is, to me, obvious.

Ah, my mistake.

However the iPod does scramble the data deliberately which is why the "chip" is needed in the Wadia unit, Wadia certainly pay a license for the ability to do the decoding and thus I suspect that you hit DMCA issues if you try to circumvent this coding yourself.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah, my mistake. However the iPod does scramble the data deliberately which is why the "chip" is needed in the Wadia unit, Wadia certainly pay a license for the ability to do the decoding and thus I suspect that you hit DMCA issues if you try to circumvent this coding yourself.

Yes, you're right. I keep forgetting that it's not just getting the pinout, it's the encryption that gets you in the end. Thanks for the clarification.