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Jun 25, 2012 at 10:03 AM Post #106 of 122
I added a new song in the OP at the bottom of the list. I hope you guys enjoy it. It's River Flows in You by the popular Korean composer and pianist, Yiruma. Beautiful song.
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At this point I think it's best to make a list of suitable headphones. Then we can shoot down all the bad options until we've got a couple left. Then I advice HybridCore to do independent research on these headphones and demo them if possible, both help to eliminate the bias from our personal opinions.
I'm going to make a list, and please feel free to add to it. This list is meant to be exhaustive, so we can shoot 'em down later.
  1. HD650
  2. HD600
  3. Q701
  4. K550
  5. PRO 2900
  6. DT 880
  7. DT 990
  8. Beats by Dr. Dre Studio
  9. Kenwood KH-K1000
  10. SA5000
  11. Denon AH-D600 when it comes out and if you don't mind the looks
  12. Second hand HD 580
  13. Alessandro MS2 (not circumaural, but possible)
There were quite a few headphones you guys mentioned, but I left them out because they were sub $200, so I think they are below budget (if any such thing exists, but I think you guys sort of know what I mean)
About the O2 I mentioned earlier:
I said shipping would be €36, but in reality it will be €24,30. My mistake.
Also:
What on earth are these prices?
http://one.toolscameras.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&get=topbaile&products_id=11664&zenid=84tg8llcdtl7dkhvsb65ett0d5
http://xgm.audiogoshop.com/koss-esp950-electrostatic-stereophone_p36.html?offer_id=B000056ULH
http://ceramic.audiogoshop.com/koss-esp950-electrostatic-stereophone-electronics_p3834.html?offer_id=B000056ULH

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AKG's.. Q701
Sennheisers HD600/HD650
Audio Technica's any of them
Some STAX for good measure 
Shure's the new 1000 series open back ones
Beyer's DT 770...maybe. The DT880 had reduced vocals or something so that won't do.. maybe DT990
Ultrasone Pro900 or 2900
Sony. some of them
 
I think that's about it. I'm not familiar with the Audio Technica or Sony lines and STAX lines as you can tell.
 
Bought 3 AKG's today. Will post on how they sound and work for semi open portables (..which brings the question of is it even worth it if at the price range, the portables are generally semi open to be cheaper to make and have more responce generally...i mean really. These won't do on the subway)

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No love for AT's?  Look into AD900, A1000X and AD1000.  AD2000 or A2000X are great for Asian music, you'll probably want to look for used ones.
I also vote for SR325is, especially with dynamatted drivers.  Or MS2, I guess.
I second HD580/600, Q701, and DT880.

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He wants circumaurals, which is why I was reluctant to recommend Grado/Allesandro.
AD1000's are possible. AD2000's may be above budget unless you can get a good deal on them.

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Guys guys guys  if you havent heard jpop/kpop, sometimes they tend to have very bad recordings (most of vocaloid/animusic has this) and recommending a neutral/analytical/revealing headphone, OP might rage and lose money because he will try resell it again. although i am using an analytical headphone for these genres and they do sound OK to me , so i hope OP can get over with it as well.
 
Dont mind me recommending and still YMMV, for jpop-ish songs I prefer headphones that is somewhat colored and fun, or a headphone that has a V or U-shape-ish frequency. if you want full-sized headphones that gives comfort with long cable and its circumaural, you can try getting an ATH-AD2000 if youre into midcentric headphones. For Supraaural you can try getting an ATH-ESW10 or ATH-ES10. You can also try the Denon D1001/D1100/D2000/D5000/D7000. I find A-T and Denon (and some Sonys) sounds good with japanese music. I only mention what I have heard or owned so there are only few choices.
 
IMO STAX SR404/SR007MKII, dt880/600ohm, dt990/600ohm, HE4,HE5,HE5LE,HE6, k/q701, hd600, hd650, SA5000 doesn't work well with jpop. Although I heard the headphones I mentioned and I really didn't like how it sounded, it is still subjective.
 
..others also mentioned to get a decent dac/amp to replace your onboard soundcard (if you are using) after your headphone purchase which is definitely recommended.

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Let me get this straight - you think that a revealing and detailed 'phone is a bad choice, but then go on to suggest one of the (by community consensus) most detailed and resolving dynamic cans ever made? Just making sure that's what I'm reading. (if you haven't figured it out yet - I'm teasing, not attacking
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)
I would agree that the SA5000 are probably too cold for this, but it's highly variable. For example I suspect (but don't have them anymore to confirm) that with SNSD (by the way, I bought the album) they would perform swimmingly, but with a lot of the samples from the previous thread they were just too dry. They're an odd duck. I'll agree with any suggestion that trashes on Beyer (
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), and have no opinion on HiFiMan or the STAXen (I keep seeing the phrase "etched as hell" WRT both though, SR-Omega, SR-007, and SR-009 excluded).
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The ATs I've heard I would have to agree with you on, but advise that the coloration may not be suitable for all palates. I'm not a big fan of the Denon HPs, but can see how you find them appealing for pop music. They're not a bad suggestion by any means (I enjoyed mine for years, unapologetically). The 1xxx models are boom-boom canons imho; spend the extra bucks and get the full-size.
The Sennheiser and AKG are more of a "least of all evils" suggestion imho - a lot of the stellar stuff is either unavailable (MDR-F1) or too expensive (ESP/950, PRO2900, AD2000). I still stand by my original impressions from the other thread that the KH-K1000 were born for this genre, even the poorly put together stuff, but understand the hesitation about buying them. Their midrange is colored enough to just sing with the vocals, they're forgiving enough to gloss over smudges in bad recordings, and revealing enough to let good recordings really shine. They also work with other genres quite well too. They're among the best all-rounders I've ever heard, and they also seem to have an affinity for mandopop/k-pop (I, oddly, don't enjoy a lot of j-pop).
In summary - the over-bright, bumped-up, biting treble that characterizes so many new expensive headphones is absolutely incongruous with long-term enjoyment and musical pleasure, because it just makes a very fatiguing and painful sounding headphone. Especially with poorly put together or more modern commercial recordings. And I agree completely with what you're saying overall.
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I agree with jpop having relatively bad recordings with my experience of jpop/vocaloid.
I actually think the HD650 works very well with JPop. It's sound signature is may be slightly too dark, but you can easily get used to that. I didn't know better and thought the HD650's were really close to neutral until I got the SR-202's. While I think the SR-202's do have a better FR for JPop, their treble bump and detailed soundstage makes bad recordings sound bad. The HD650 smears out the sound stage a bit and makes badly mastered stuff very listenable, while still delivering the power and impact you expect from the music.
There are way too many AKB48 albums. It's ridiculous.
Any suggestion for some good ones? I've now listened to Koko ni Ita Koto six times, and I think it's satisfying enough to check out some more.

Give me a quick minute to combine these posts into the form of a list of headphones. Check back later for an edit.
 
Edit:
 
Sennheiser
  1. HD558
  2. HD598
  3. HD600
  4. HD650
  5. HD580
AKG
  1. K702
  2. Q701
  3. K550
Ultrasone
  1. PRO 2900
Beyerdynamic
  1. DT880
  2. DT990
Kenwood
  1. KH-K1000
Sony
  1. MDR-SA5000
  2. MDR-V6
  3. some other common studio headphones used in Japan
Denon
  1. AH-D600
  2. AH-D7100
  3. AH-D2000
  4. AH-D5000
  5. AH-D7000
Audiotechnica
  1. ATH-A700x
  2. ATH-A900x
  3. ATH-AD700
  4. ATH-AD900
  5. ATH-AD1000
  6. ATH-AD1000prm
  7. ATH-AD2000
  8. ATH-A1000x
  9. ATH-A2000x
  10. ATH-M50s
  11. any other ones (optional)
STAX
  1. any headphone
Grado
  1. SR325is
Alessandro
  1. MS2
 
This is pretty good for now. I'll add to the list down the road.
 
Jun 25, 2012 at 2:30 PM Post #113 of 122
I think so, but there are still plenty of new ones out there waiting for an audiophile to take them up. 
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Jun 25, 2012 at 4:49 PM Post #114 of 122
I just thought of something. Didn't Audio-Technica discontinue the ATH-AD1000prm?


A long time ago.

Honestly Hybrid, you're just overwhelming yourself here, and you're seemingly expecting to "solve the world" by constantly asking the same question over and over and over again. Really, I get the hesitation about buying something expensive and unknown (especially if you're a kid and/or on a tight budget), and the whole "I want to do it once and do it right" view, and honestly with no frame of reference for high end, whatever you pick from that *huge* list (or the huge lists you've generated in every other thread you've started asking the same exact question) will probably sound like heaven to you. Not to mention that nobody gets it exactly right their first time out of the gate; do you know how many cans I've been through to get to my current end-game? Look at bowei's profile too. And Tilpo's. And Max's. None of just have "I bought this one and it's the king and I stopped." Just pick one (and it doesn't matter which one) and buy it - see where you land. Nobody can really condense down any of your monster lists and tell you what you will personally like best. And I'm not at all trying to rant at you, I'm just trying to share a bit of wisdom, from one enthusiast, to another. :)
 
Jun 25, 2012 at 4:53 PM Post #115 of 122
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A long time ago.
Honestly Hybrid, you're just overwhelming yourself here, and you're seemingly expecting to "solve the world" by constantly asking the same question over and over and over again. Really, I get the hesitation about buying something expensive and unknown (especially if you're a kid and/or on a tight budget), and the whole "I want to do it once and do it right" view, and honestly with no frame of reference for high end, whatever you pick from that *huge* list (or the huge lists you've generated in every other thread you've started asking the same exact question) will probably sound like heaven to you. Not to mention that nobody gets it exactly right their first time out of the gate; do you know how many cans I've been through to get to my current end-game? Look at bowei's profile too. And Tilpo's. And Max's. None of just have "I bought this one and it's the king and I stopped." Just pick one (and it doesn't matter which one) and buy it - see where you land. Nobody can really condense down any of your monster lists and tell you what you will personally like best. And I'm not at all trying to rant at you, I'm just trying to share a bit of wisdom, from one enthusiast, to another.
smily_headphones1.gif

I thought so.
 
I've noticed. I don't expect to "solve the world" by asking the same question over and over again. I don't expect it to get it perfect the first time. I'm just seeing how close I can get to what I think is ideal. I doubt I'll ever find the "perfect" headphone because every factor is always changing. Thanks for your 2 cents though.
 
Actually, the point of this list is to get a good idea of what things like "warm" or "cold" sounds like, because as you guys know, I've never heard a mid or hi-fi headphone, so I want a good idea of what I'm getting myself into. I'll end up buying more and more headphones down the road as my idea of "perfect" changes.
 
After I get a good idea of what I'm getting myself into (I'm not going to try all of the headphones, just the ones I can demo somewhere), I'll just go listen to the headphones I like best and try to pick one.
 
Jun 25, 2012 at 4:57 PM Post #116 of 122
A long time ago.
Honestly Hybrid, you're just overwhelming yourself here, and you're seemingly expecting to "solve the world" by constantly asking the same question over and over and over again. Really, I get the hesitation about buying something expensive and unknown (especially if you're a kid and/or on a tight budget), and the whole "I want to do it once and do it right" view, and honestly with no frame of reference for high end, whatever you pick from that *huge* list (or the huge lists you've generated in every other thread you've started asking the same exact question) will probably sound like heaven to you. Not to mention that nobody gets it exactly right their first time out of the gate; do you know how many cans I've been through to get to my current end-game? Look at bowei's profile too. And Tilpo's. And Max's. None of just have "I bought this one and it's the king and I stopped." Just pick one (and it doesn't matter which one) and buy it - see where you land. Nobody can really condense down any of your monster lists and tell you what you will personally like best. And I'm not at all trying to rant at you, I'm just trying to share a bit of wisdom, from one enthusiast, to another. :)

Quoted for truth.


I would personally go with a popular choice, as that is guaranteed to sound good with very low risk.


On that note, I will personally recommend you try the HD600, HD650, Q701 and DT880's. Those are all very popular and well documented choices on head-fi.
There is no possible way you will be able to audition all of the mentioned cans, and doing research on all of them is both unreliable and would also take weeks. My advice is to read up on these four cans, and if possible audition them. You can't really make a 'bad' choice, just 'less good'. You won't really know whether the choice you made was right until you've spent a lot of time with other cans either.
 
Jun 25, 2012 at 5:00 PM Post #117 of 122
I thought so.

I've noticed. I don't expect to "solve the world" by asking the same question over and over again. I don't expect it to get it perfect the first time. I'm just seeing how close I can get to what I think is ideal. I doubt I'll ever find the "perfect" headphone because every factor is always changing. Thanks for your 2 cents though.

Actually, the point of this list is to get a good idea of what things like "warm" or "cold" sounds like, because as you guys know, I've never heard a mid or hi-fi headphone, so I want a good idea of what I'm getting myself into. I'll end up buying more and more headphones down the road as my idea of "perfect" changes.

After I get a good idea of what I'm getting myself into (I'm not going to try all of the headphones, just the ones I can demo somewhere), I'll just go listen to the headphones I like best and try to pick one.


Really you aren't going to be able to figure out what any of it sounds like without trying it yourself - I can sit and explain warm, cold, bright, etc to you all day long, show you graphs, etc and with no frame of reference it's like trying to explain a color wheel to a blind person. They can get to the point of being able to do colorspace conversions and understand compliments and all of the math behind it, but at the end of the day you'll still get: "I don't know what red is." :xf_eek:

Best of luck, really. I think you've gotten some stellar advice, and I'm glad to have helped even in some small part (and thanks for introducing me to SNSD); I'll also be curious to hear your impressions of whatever you settle on.
 
Jun 25, 2012 at 7:37 PM Post #118 of 122
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Really you aren't going to be able to figure out what any of it sounds like without trying it yourself - I can sit and explain warm, cold, bright, etc to you all day long, show you graphs, etc and with no frame of reference it's like trying to explain a color wheel to a blind person. They can get to the point of being able to do colorspace conversions and understand compliments and all of the math behind it, but at the end of the day you'll still get: "I don't know what red is."
redface.gif

Best of luck, really. I think you've gotten some stellar advice, and I'm glad to have helped even in some small part (and thanks for introducing me to SNSD); I'll also be curious to hear your impressions of whatever you settle on.

There's a reason that I'm going to New York in a few days. Going to go to AudioCubes and J&R. There's a reason I'm looking for things right now.
 
If I was doing a blind search, I wouldn't bother going through this same process again after what happened last time.
 
Jul 2, 2012 at 4:15 PM Post #120 of 122
I enjoy Asian music on the HifiMAN HE-5LE!  : )

Please read the OP.
That headphone is not within his budget.

More off topic:
Do you prefer the HE-5LE over the HE-500 for this genre? I thought there was more or less general consensus that the HE-500 was better in most regards.
Why did you decide to keep both and not keep one of the two and buy a secondary headphone from another brand?
 

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