C.E.C. TL-51XR

[anubisgrau]

I tried a search engine on this forum but it seems that CEC 51XR hasn't been mentioned here.

This is an updated version of TL-51XZ CDP that featured a fantastic transport mechanism (belt-driven, as found in all CEC products) but not so good DAC. The new, 51XR has an updated DAC section and it is really an intriguing product for its price that excatly falls into what many of the audiphiles want to spend at most with uncertain future of a CD player.

That's why I am starting this thread with a hope there will be someone who had a chance to hear it.

I've recently came across Larry Cox review of this player for Positive Feedback.

Larry is one of the few guys whose taste in audio I highly appreciate (ATC speakers, EAR amps etc) so I've started thinking about this machine again.

I remember spotting it a year or so ago when it was really cheap with the Far East dealers ($1200 or less inc delivery to Europe).

Now I was really surprised to see that Larry put it so high on a list of his preferred CDPs, just under the EAR Acute expensive monster.

I am wondering if anyone had a chance to listen to CEC 51XR, especially comparing to any of the models within a relevant price range (Quad 99 CDP-2, Rega Apollo/Saturn, Cambridge 840C).

About my music preferences: what I highly value is a natural presentation and ability to portray music not just as a sum of audiophile details (that many just go for: imaging, space, 3D etc) but rather as an emotional experience.

For example, I've recently discovered that my current CDP (Thule CD150B Spirit) has two different presentations, depending what outputs you use (balanced or unbalanced). Eventually I went for RCA outputs that sound less flashy and detailed but more organic and coherent, reminding me of a live thing.

The rest of my system is very revealing and clean - ATC 20A active speakers, different preamps (depending on my moods

, upmarket VdH cables.

Anyway, I would appreciate any observations or thoughs on the CEC player from those who had a chance to hear it, or even better, use it.

Thanks

 

[feckn_eejit]

All I can offer is my experience with my Parasound C/BD-2000 transport, which uses a CEC-designed belt-drive mechanism.

Compared to my other transports, the Parasound excels with soundstage, imaging, and "palpability" - smooth midrange and highs. The bass is somewhat weak and flabby in comparison to the deep and tight Sonic Frontiers SFT-1, however that has brutal highs.

The transport is nicely built, though I am sorely disappointed in the clock and will likely upgrade with a Dexa or something in the future. I understand CEC uses this crappy clock in a lot of their transports.

The Parasound is better at reading scratched discs than most of my other players.

 

[anubisgrau]

Thanks for the interesting post. I didn't know that CEC OEM-ed for Parasound.

I am wondering how do you know that the clock is a weak spot. Is it audible or what kind of behaviour a bad clock has?

 

[feckn_eejit]

I don't think OEM-ing was a regular thing for them... the C/BD-2000 was roughly equivalent to their bottom of the line at the time, who knows how Parasound pulled that one off...

My complaining about the clock is me being an amateur electrical engineer, it is unimpressive compared to clock circuits in comparable equipment... the crummier the clock, the more likely the audible effects of jitter will be heard in the output. I attribute my problems with the Parasound's bottom end (slow and wooley) to the clock, but I might be way off.

In the big scheme it's probably fairly minor and almost certainly more of an issue as a transport than as a dedicated CD player with a built in DAC, since the clock signal doesn't have to undergo the rigors of the S/PDIF interface.

Again, what the Parasound is really good at is the "presentation" stuff that I get the impression is important to you. CECs are renowned for this. The transport mechanism is definitely a cut above the rest, and at a very accessible price. I think you'll like it. I'm more a of a detail fanatic, obsessed with accurate, tight bass. The Parasound is definitely more moving and emotional - the sense of performers being there in a space, the reach-out-and-touchability is really moving...

This seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I hear more differences between transports than DACs, and the better/more revealing a DAC is, the more it allows me to hear differences between transports. Garbage in, garbage out... CEC has one of the best transport designs, period.

 

[ayt999]

I have a DA53 dac and a TL51X transport. other than the transport-dac link the combo should be pretty much the same as the TL51XR. (the TL51XR uses the CEC superlink, but since the DA53 doesn't have that particular input I can't duplicate it.)

now the fun part is trying to remember impressions regarding the setup.... I got the TL51X a couple months before moving across the country for school and had to leave it in storage so impressions are not exactly fresh nor in-depth. also doesn't help that I haven't compared it to any other source but my Accuphase DP-85, which isn't exactly a fair comparison given the large price difference.

from what I remember the sound should fit your preferences though, quite natural presentation that's on the warmer side. I might list some sonic traits of the DAC and transport later once I'm more awake.

 

[KTL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anubisgrau /img/forum/go_quote.gif About my music preferences: what I highly value is a natural presentation and ability to portray music not just as a sum of audiophile details (that many just go for: imaging, space, 3D etc) but rather as an emotional experience.

You can't go wrong with the XR there, I own the TL51X transport so
I can't say anything about the internal dac on XR,but the 51X is
a really great transport with a very analogue sound.

My 51X is connected to a Lavry DA10,and I won't get rid of that combo anytime soon.

 

[anubisgrau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayt999 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a DA53 dac and a TL51X transport. other than the transport-dac link the combo should be pretty much the same as the TL51XR. (the TL51XR uses the CEC superlink, but since the DA53 doesn't have that particular input I can't

I am not sure if the comparison would be valid: maybe I am wrong but I think CEC DA53 uses a different DAC chip to TL-51XR's Burr Brown PCM 1796. Actually I think DA53 uses a similar DAC as discontinued TL51XZ (NPC 5865).

Could be I'm wrong but I remember some users thought DA53 was a weak link in the combo.

 

[ayt999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anubisgrau /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am not sure if the comparison would be valid: maybe I am wrong but I think CEC DA53 uses a different DAC chip to TL-51XR's Burr Brown PCM 1796. Actually I think DA53 uses a similar DAC as discontinued TL51XZ (NPC 5865). Could be I'm wrong but I remember some users thought DA53 was a weak link in the combo.

you are indeed wrong.

http://www.cec-web.co.jp/products/cd...xr/tl51xr.html

http://www.cec-web.co.jp/products/da/da53/da53.html
http://www.cec-web.co.jp/products/cd...51x/tl51x.html


the CEC DX71mkII DAC uses the the NPC SM5865CM, but that isn't what I said I use.
http://www.cec-web.co.jp/products/da/dx71/dx71.html

 

[anubisgrau]

so, the TL-51XR is a combo of TL-51X transport and DA-53 DAC, right?

ayt999, it would be great if you could refresh your impressions in comparison with accu CDP. i've seen only a few reviews of TL-51 but they were always very positive in absolute way, regardless of the price. larry cox from PF said it was the best player he has ever heard, after EAR acute which i listened and indeed it is a killer.

 

[anubisgrau]

and something else - so what DAC chip the discontinued 51XZ used when the current 51XR uses PCM1796?

 

[anubisgrau]

considering it's a belt driven CDP, anyone has a clue about how long should a belt last?

 

[Ooztuncer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anubisgrau /img/forum/go_quote.gif so, the TL-51XR is a combo of TL-51X transport and DA-53 DAC, right?

I am also curious about the answer of this question.

I am planning to buy cd3300r + da53 OR cd5300 only. Neither the 3300r nor the 5300 are belt driven cd players like 51x(r), however 5300 has the 2x1796 chip built-in for fully balanced dual-mono dac conversion.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find a comparison between the cd3300/5300 and the 51x(r).

I believe the ideal solution would be 51x + benchmark 1 (or lavry da 10 or electrocompaniet ecd-1), however my dilemma is perhaps a single 51XR will be pretty much comparable to mentioned combo's for much cheaper...

Any insights??

 

[shiosai]

just a heads up, 6moons review of TL51XR:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/cec3/51.html

 

[greggf]

thank you, shiosai!

 

[NMyTree]

Is the CEC TL51XR available in the USA?