[Orpheus]

Hi,
 
I think this is my first thread in many many many years.... but I've always remembered you guys to be super knowledgeable about such things so now that I have this situation, I know where to come!

 
So, I just bought my first TV, I think in nearly 15 years, about the time I stopped watching TV (seriously).  But I've always had my music production equipment, including a set of very high-end monitor speakers.  But these speakers are "powered" in that they only take a line-in and there is no control of volume through the speakers.  The problem is that my TV and cable box have line-outs but are not volume controlled.  Plus, the TV's is a mini jack.  I doubt either have good quality audio through those jacks.  But, they both do have optical audio outs.
 
So, I have a couple choices:
 
1. AV Receiver (but the amp'd speaker stuff is useless to me)
2. Analog Preamp
3. "Passive Preamp" (resistor-based volume control box)
4. DAC with volume control (or preamp with DAC)
 
I'm avoiding #2 and #3 cause they depend on what I assume to be low quality audio outs.  #1 would be ideal, but they're really expensive for the good ones.  So, I'm thinking #4, a decent DAC, but requires a volume control.
 
................. and so I need help:
 
I've spent a good amount of time googling and it's really hard to find "budget" DACs that state that they have a volume control of the line-outs.  (Most manufacturer websites do not even mention this detail.)  In fact, I haven't found any, at any $.  But I am sure they exist.......
 
Head-Fi masters: do you guys know of a good DAC < $500 that has volume-control for the line-outs (even better, preferably "digital volume control" within the actual convertor)?
 
Thanks!

 

[gevorg]

Check this out:

https://emotiva.com/products/dacs/electronics/dacs/stealth-dc-1

 

[Orpheus]

Check this out:

https://emotiva.com/products/dacs/electronics/dacs/stealth-dc-1

thanks

.  looks pretty good.  i don't suppose there are other choices people recommend?

 

[Chodi]

 
thanks

.  looks pretty good.  i don't suppose there are other choices people recommend?

All Sabre based dac's have a digital volume control it is built into the Sabre dac chip. You can choose from many but in the budget category Audio gd gets a lot of play on the forum.

 

[Orpheus]

  All Sabre based dac's have a digital volume control it is built into the Sabre dac chip. You can choose from many but in the budget category Audio gd gets a lot of play on the forum.

thanks.... i like that it's apogee that manufactures the sabre chip (i think).  i'm very familiar with apogee since they've been doing pro audio since forever.  i took a quick look at the Audio Gd website and well.......... i think i'd hold off for a different brand

 
do you know of other specific models that use this chip?

 

[Chodi]

 
thanks.... i like that it's apogee that manufactures the sabre chip (i think).  i'm very familiar with apogee since they've been doing pro audio since forever.  i took a quick look at the Audio Gd website and well.......... i think i'd hold off for a different brand

 
do you know of other specific models that use this chip?

You have been around this forum a while so I'm surprised at your question. Just check in the "dedicated components" Topic and you will find 80% of the dac's in that thread use the Sabre 9018 dac chip. It has become very common although for some time it was considered the top of the line in dac chips recently there is some competition from other chip companies like Burr Brown and AKM. I have owned several Sabre based dac's and I'm satisfied it is one of the best solutions.
 

 

[Orpheus]

 
You have been around this forum a while so I'm surprised at your question. Just check in the "dedicated components" Topic and you will find 80% of the dac's in that thread use the Sabre 9018 dac chip. It has become very common although for some time it was considered the top of the line in dac chips recently there is some competition from other chip companies like Burr Brown and AKM. I have owned several Sabre based dac's and I'm satisfied it is one of the best solutions.
 

well, ....that's the whole problem and why I am asking here.... I was hoping people could cut down on research time and tell me which ones are under $500 and are good, and have volume control.  I have already googled for hours.  these things just aren't in manufacturers' advertisements, as I said in my first post.
 
I haven't been back to head-fi in probably ~10 years.  I remember people used to be very quick with suggestions.

 

[Mr.Tom]

Thats easy. There nothing else made that will come close to Monarchy Audio Model 18B Line Stage DAC, for $500.
 
Scroll down this link.
 
 
http://monarchyaudio.com/index_HEALC.htm

 

[Chodi]

 
well, ....that's the whole problem and why I am asking here.... I was hoping people could cut down on research time and tell me which ones are under $500 and are good, and have volume control.  I have already googled for hours.  these things just aren't in manufacturers' advertisements, as I said in my first post.
 
I haven't been back to head-fi in probably ~10 years.  I remember people used to be very quick with suggestions.

My apology I guess I missed the part about staying under $500. You probably won't find Sabre 9018 based dac's at that price as the Sabre chip cost is too high. 

 

[Orpheus]

  Thats easy. There nothing else made that will come close to Monarchy Audio Model 18B Line Stage DAC, for $500.
 
Scroll down this link.
 
 
http://monarchyaudio.com/index_HEALC.htm

I used to have some monarchy monoblocks, which were excellent.  sadly, I just googled for a while based on your suggestion and couldn't find any substantial stats on that unit.  on the manufacturer's own site there are no pictures of the back where the connections are.  no stats on the bit and sampling rates.  no other review or article states those things either.  there is a quote on the site you linked saying something about "44.1 done right"--that's not a good thing to me as 44.1 is as basic as it gets.  does that mean that it can't do better than 44.1?--probably not, but surely it should be stated.
 
.......but thanks for the suggestion.  to me the website is a reflection of how professional a company is.  if they would just invest a little I might have bought it.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orpheus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 

But I've always had my music production equipment, including a set of very high-end monitor speakers.  But these speakers are "powered" in that they only take a line-in and there is no control of volume through the speakers.

 

1. AV Receiver (but the amp'd speaker stuff is useless to me)

---

#1 would be ideal, but they're really expensive for the good ones.  So, I'm thinking #4, a decent DAC, but requires a volume control.

 

Not really ideal, barring higher tier units the line outs on most receivers if any are for Zone 2, and they aren't preamp controlled. If anything the only reason why this would be good is you can use HDMI1.3 and up from a computer to feed audio and video into the A/V receiver, but from there on you have some problems, and A/V pre-pros are expensive.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orpheus /img/forum/go_quote.gif

3. "Passive Preamp" (resistor-based volume control box)

 

I'm avoiding #2 and #3 cause they depend on what I assume to be low quality audio outs. 

 

There are relatively cheap passive preamps made by Schiit and Niles, or you can have a forum DIY-er make you a passive preamp based on Nelson Pass' design, AFAIK it was initially for pairing with the First Watt to reduce coloration from cheap active components. 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orpheus /img/forum/go_quote.gif

4. DAC with volume control (or preamp with DAC)

 

I've spent a good amount of time googling and it's really hard to find "budget" DACs that state that they have a volume control of the line-outs.  (Most manufacturer websites do not even mention this detail.)  In fact, I haven't found any, at any $.  But I am sure they exist.......

 

Head-Fi masters: do you guys know of a good DAC < $500 that has volume-control for the line-outs?

 

I'm not sure what keywords you were using on Google but off the top of my head...

 

AudioGD NFB-15, ~$275+shipping (out of production now)

AudioGD NFB-11, $325+shipping

Audioengine D1, $170

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orpheus /img/forum/go_quote.gif

(even better, preferably "digital volume control" within the actual convertor)?

 

I'm not sure why you'd want to do this - depending on the implementation you can end up below 16bits. That's one reason why some direct digital amps upsample the signal - Wadia for example assures that because of upsampling there's now way you can end up below 16bits.

 

If it's because you want remote controlled volume adjustment, AudioGD used to make some with buttons on the front panel, but I suppose it became apparent at some point that most of their customers use headphones and would rather quickly twist a know to reduce the volume than squeeze a button (or throw their headphones off their heads). Some models have an optional remote so I suppose they might be using digital pots but with a knob control (ie kind of like on an A/V receiver). 

 

[Orpheus]

 

...

 

I'm not sure what keywords you were using on Google but off the top of my head...

 

AudioGD NFB-15, ~$275+shipping (out of production now)

AudioGD NFB-11, $325+shipping

Audioengine D1, $170

 

...

 

I'm not sure why you'd want to do this - depending on the implementation you can end up below 16bits. That's one reason why some direct digital amps upsample the signal - Wadia for example assures that because of upsampling there's now way you can end up below 16bits.

 

If it's because you want remote controlled volume adjustment, AudioGD used to make some with buttons on the front panel, but I suppose it became apparent at some point that most of their customers use headphones and would rather quickly twist a know to reduce the volume than squeeze a button (or throw their headphones off their heads). Some models have an optional remote so I suppose they might be using digital pots but with a knob control (ie kind of like on an A/V receiver). 

 
Hi.  Thanks for the suggestions.
 
The Audioengine suggestion is a good example of my problem--I can't find anywhere stating whether the line-outs are volume controlled (i think most are not).  That's why googling was fruitless.  Remember I wouldn't have a problem if the norm was to be volume controlled... my TV out, my cable box out, and even my speaker amps have no volume control.
 
I was avoiding the AudioGD brand as most stuff they officially posted on the web looks pretty unprofessional, but I guess the price is good and they do apparently use a top-shelf DAC chip.  So thanks... I guess I'll have to look more into NFB-11.  A quick google brought up some head-fi threads.  Didn't see any real negatives.  Might be worth a try.
 
And no, don't need remote volume... I just need ANY volume control

.  Like I said, I would have bought one of the passive units, but I just can't justify $100-300 for a box with resistors when a full on DAC would be $300-500 and would probably give me far greater fidelity compared to the mini jack on my TV.

How 'bout any of the brand names?  NAD actually makes a clean looking unit < $500, but they actually do state if the line-outs are volume controlled... and they're not!  Sigh.

 

[Mr.Tom]

 
I used to have some monarchy monoblocks, which were excellent.  sadly, I just googled for a while based on your suggestion and couldn't find any substantial stats on that unit.  on the manufacturer's own site there are no pictures of the back where the connections are.  no stats on the bit and sampling rates.  no other review or article states those things either.  there is a quote on the site you linked saying something about "44.1 done right"--that's not a good thing to me as 44.1 is as basic as it gets.  does that mean that it can't do better than 44.1?--probably not, but surely it should be stated.
 
.......but thanks for the suggestion.  to me the website is a reflection of how professional a company is.  if they would just invest a little I might have bought it.

You must be very young, as a website has zero to do with the quality of a product. Doc Poon has been building hiEnd DACs for over 30 years(long before the word website). 

 

[Orpheus]

 
You must be very young, as a website has zero to do with the quality of a product. Doc Poon has been building hiEnd DACs for over 30 years(long before the word website). 

while true to some extent, i do believe it's a measure of the professionalism of a company, which often does reflect on certain aspects of the product.  but just fyi, i do believe i have spoken to mr. poon on the phone a decade ago regarding his amp that i owned at the time.  i remember he was nice.
 
...
 
anyway, i just scored a new Emotiva DC-1 on Audiogon for $350.  should work nicely for my TV--as a bonus it even has a remote, which would be great for a TV setup.
 
thanks for all your help!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orpheus /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

The Audioengine suggestion is a good example of my problem--I can't find anywhere stating whether the line-outs are volume controlled (i think most are not). 

 

Scroll down this page and then click "FAQ"

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orpheus /img/forum/go_quote.gif

That's why googling was fruitless.  Remember I wouldn't have a problem if the norm was to be volume controlled... my TV out, my cable box out, and even my speaker amps have no volume control.

 

I used the keywords "DAC Preamp" on Head-Fi's search box at the top of the page and came up with a few; Google also had some but that included some set-ups with a DAC separate from the preamp.

http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch?search=DAC+preamp
 

 

 
 

 
I was avoiding the AudioGD brand as most stuff they officially posted on the web looks pretty unprofessional, but I guess the price is good and they do apparently use a top-shelf DAC chip.  So thanks... I guess I'll have to look more into NFB-11.  A quick google brought up some head-fi threads.  Didn't see any real negatives.  Might be worth a try.

 
If anything what makes it look less professional - aside from not hiring a web designer who doesn't have the aesthetic taste with Communist sensitivities, minus Party propaganda so no red and gold pomp with Mao's face - is that they don't integrate the shipping calculator, thus you have to ask for a quote and then they check then they send you a PayPal bill. 
 
If there's anything that's really a problem though it would be that shipping it back can be expensive, and if there isn't anything wrong with it, you pay for the return shipping to you again. Used units retain their prices a bit since they're known to be working, extensively tested by the previous owner, although it's not like there have been an alarming number of cases where a lot of units left the factory malfunctioning. Then again, if you had to order from Schiit and you're not from the 48 states, it's also a little bit more expensive, and same billing applies if they find nothing wrong with it (unless it's within the trial period, in which case you can opt to get reimbursed minus the 15% repacking fee).
 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orpheus /img/forum/go_quote.gif

How 'bout any of the brand names?  NAD actually makes a clean looking unit < $500, but they actually do state if the line-outs are volume controlled... and they're not!  Sigh.

 

Did you try it or read a review saying it doesn't? Because you can use it as a full digital preamp, or alternately as a simple digital source hub, so those who want to euphonically boombasticate the sound with their tube preamp can still do so.

 

 
 

  And no, don't need remote volume... I just need ANY volume control

.  Like I said, I would have bought one of the passive units, but I just can't justify $100-300 for a box with resistors when a full on DAC would be $300-500 and would probably give me far greater fidelity compared to the mini jack on my TV.

 
Yeah, actually, unless I need two analogue inputs feeding into one preamp, I'd much rather blow $300+ on the Modi2 Uber + Vali 2 Uber than $100 on the Sys. Of course, if I had one CDP or the Modi2 plus a TT, then I'd likely get the Sys since one is analogue.
 
 
 

 
anyway, i just scored a new Emotiva DC-1 on Audiogon for $350.  should work nicely for my TV--as a bonus it even has a remote, which would be great for a TV setup.

 
In any case, that's a great price for the DC-1 provided it's in 9/10 condition. And the remote hasn't been misplaced