[pedalhead]

HFM tend to price according to what the market can bear rather than offer value to customers based on cost of production and reasonable markup.

It's a valid strategy, but not what you would call an honourable way to conduct a business imho.

 

[npdang]

HFM tend to price according to what the market can bear rather than offer value to customers based on cost of production and reasonable markup.

It's a valid strategy, but not what you would call an honourable way to conduct a business imho.

 
It's not atypical for companies to try to recoup their R&D costs with an initial product offering, and the HE-1000 v1 could very well be an example of that.  I am surprised however at the relatively poor QC and build quality given the price.

 

[pedalhead]

Of course, HFM aren't the only company to take this approach. Just look at the Utopia. Still, both are excellent headphones in their own way so they can kind of get away with it.

Despite everything, and despite recently selling my HE1000 v1, I'd still consider a v2 if I can't find anything I prefer, particularly because the v2 fits me far better than the v1. I'm getting a head to head demo of v2 and Utopia in a couple of weeks.

 

[ToroFiestaSol]

Yes, but at least Utopia's build quality is what you expect for a 4k usd headphone, the thing has premium leather, carbon fiber and a berillium driver...the HE-1000...well, you know 

 

[patrikh]

Modding the headphones with new wood etc. wouldn't be much of an issue if the thing was built to last. Sadly you have to prepared for driver failure and warranty so no modding. I have been talking with their support about the headband for quite a while because I want a replacement. The headband is horrible because the glue doesn't hold the two pieces together anymore and the goo transfers onto my head. This is why I have a sock wrapped around the headband 

 

[Maxx134]

Yes, but at least Utopia's build quality is what you expect for a 4k usd headphone, the thing has premium leather, carbon fiber and a berillium driver...the HE-1000...well, you know 

For 3k I would have wanted silver or gold plating, and definitely the richest grain wood can you can possibly find.
Look at all the dam beautiful wood models from Audio Technica, as an example...

Why would anyone want "dry" wood?
Actually I don't care what color or grain, but the least thing to do SHOULD have been a well polyurethane or similar coated wood,
Not some dry piece of slab.
It is embarrassing.
Might as well use some metal or plastic.
Bottom line, dry wood is too "DIY" looking, Therefore I stained mine (V1).

Modding the headphones with new wood etc. wouldn't be much of an issue if the thing was built to last. Sadly you have to prepared for driver failure and warranty so no modding. I have been talking with their support about the headband for quite a while because I want a replacement. The headband is horrible because the glue doesn't hold the two pieces together anymore and the goo transfers onto my head. This is why I have a sock wrapped around the headband 

This is all hard for me to believe.
Customer support has always been excellent and you should have received instructions to send it in.
Besides I never heard of driver failure, only accidents.

 

[patrikh]

They first tried to persuade me to upgrade to v2 to which I refused because of reasons mentioned multiple times on this thread (shipping, customs, and of course the price and poor business strategy). After that they told me to send them to China for a repair to which I refused on the same reasons. Now they are wondering if they actually can send the leather piece separately; I hope they do because I'll be pretty pissed if they don't. The headband is bad design yet replacing it clearly doesn't warrant sending it around the world; it's 4 screws... I think I will probably need to make my own headband which is sad.

 

[reeltime]

I don't understand all the venom toward Hifiman.  Any time I've had a question, suggestion, or dealing with the company I get a prompt message returned and they're quite friendly.  
 
I think it's great that they're offering an upgrade for the HE1000.  Sennheiser is not for the HD800 to HD800s, yet there doesn't seem to be a groundswell of complaining about Sennheiser.  I own the HD800.  I'm not mad at Sennheiser for making a better product and making me purchase a new one if I want it.  I'd upgrade if the path were there, but I don't now see Sennheiser as practicing poor business or not caring bout me.  They make good products.  If I want the new HD800s, I have the option of buying.  
 
If you judge the QC of the HE1000 as bad, return them or replace them and move on.  Buy a headphone that better meets your standards.
 
Complaints about business strategy?  What concern of that is mine?  If I like the product I buy the product.  If I don't like the product, or I think it's a bad value, I pass.  If there's a product I'd rather have, I sell the product I own on eBay and I buy the one I want.  Why is it the manufacturer that must bend to my personal choice?  It would seem the buyer has the power-- in their wallet.  If people stop buying the HE-1000, Hifiman will lower the price, discontinue them, or change them to address any issues. 
 
I haven't auditioned the Focal Utopia, perhaps it's a better headphone.  I personally think the HE1000 is a masterpiece.  
 
 

 

[oneguy]

I don't understand all the venom toward Hifiman.  Any time I've had a question, suggestion, or dealing with the company I get a prompt message returned and they're quite friendly.  

I think it's great that they're offering an upgrade for the HE1000.  Sennheiser is not for the HD800 to HD800s, yet there doesn't seem to be a groundswell of complaining about Sennheiser.  I own the HD800.  I'm not mad at Sennheiser for making a better product and making me purchase a new one if I want it.  I'd upgrade if the path were there, but I don't now see Sennheiser as practicing poor business or not caring bout me.  They make good products.  If I want the new HD800s, I have the option of buying.  

If you judge the QC of the HE1000 as bad, return them or replace them and move on.  Buy a headphone that better meets your standards.


Complaints about business strategy?  What concern of that is mine?  If I like the product I buy the product.  If I don't like the product, or I think it's a bad value, I pass.  If there's a product I'd rather have, I sell the product I own on eBay and I buy the one I want.  Why is it the manufacturer that must bend to my personal choice?  It would seem the buyer has the power-- in their wallet.  If people stop buying the HE-1000, Hifiman will lower the price, discontinue them, or change them to address any issues. 

I haven't auditioned the Focal Utopia, perhaps it's a better headphone.  I personally think the HE1000 is a masterpiece.  

The problem people have stems from how soon the did the change. Sennheiser had 6 years between "version" changes. Hifiman was less then 2 years. The depreciation had a new to used car market kind of drop which is unusual in the head-fi community.

 

[SurFi]

The problem people have stems from how soon the did the change. Sennheiser had 6 years between "version" changes. Hifiman was less then 2 years. The depreciation had a new to used car market kind of drop which is unusual in the head-fi community.

 
2 years???
 
Less than one single solitary year!
 
The announcement was within 9 months of the general release of the V1.

 

[oneguy]

2 years???

Less than one single solitary year!

The announcement was within 9 months of the general release of the V1.

I thought it was less than a year but I was too lazy to check when the exact "release day" even though beta version had been around for a while was so I went with the safe bet. Thanks for the back up!

 

[Frihed89]

 

[ardilla]

As annoying as it may be for us who bought the HE1000 and worry about resale prices, we must remember that making a better model is typically what manufacturers do. At least Hifiman has the guts to actually tell the customers, Audeze has been doing this for years without even adding a "mk2" etc. I wish they could keep models the same for longer period of time, but it's not like Hifiman is the only one here.. 
 
As for pricing - of course flagships are expensive. Of course Hifiman set their price according to what customers are willing to pay. That is basic market economics. I find the HE1000 to be a great headphone, and have no issue with the build quality compared to the other flagship cans I own. 

 

[fapman]

  As annoying as it may be for us who bought the HE1000 and worry about resale prices, we must remember that making a better model is typically what manufacturers do. At least Hifiman has the guts to actually tell the customers, Audeze has been doing this for years without even adding a "mk2" etc. I wish they could keep models the same for longer period of time, but it's not like Hifiman is the only one here.. 
 
As for pricing - of course flagships are expensive. Of course Hifiman set their price according to what customers are willing to pay. That is basic market economics. I find the HE1000 to be a great headphone, and have no issue with the build quality compared to the other flagship cans I own. 

The argument " Of course Hifiman set their price according to what customers are willing to pay." Sennheiser could asked 2000€+ from HD800S. Did they? No. This is not solid argument at any means. The flagship headphone prices are getting out of hand real fast.
 
And in technology where game changers are often (for example the phone and pc world). I can understand the frequent update cycle.  However, we are talking here 4000$ MSRP product. Year later they introduce product that changed earpads and made it lighter + thinner.  This is not a solid upgrade and they should atleast offer an upgrade program for the current HE1000 owners (I don't know if they offer allready) for being beta-testers. 

"Yeah, but it does not make the current HE1000's owners headphones sound worse" No, but for this ""Upgrade"" the current HE1000 V1's re-sale value decreased tremendously. This is not Hifiman's "concern" but if they value their customers, they should offer an upgrade plan.

I am not a Hifiman owner and probably never will be. But to defend company's actions after pissing on the current HE-1000 V1's owner in the face like this. It is not ok. Even if you are a fanboy.... Imho.

 

[ardilla]

I don't think they are "pissing V1 owners in the face". However, if I was unclear, I am a bit annoyed by overly frequent update cycles as well. But Hifiman is not the only one doing this, and I am more annyoed with Audeze in this regard. That Sennheiser choose to price the HD800/s as they do has solely to do with economics. They go for scale, and sell more. That's how it works. But hey - I'd like high end headfi stuff to be cheaper too And BTW - I prefer the HE1000 to the HD800 by a significant margin.