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Breaking-in headphones, the final verdict!
Apr 2, 2018 at 10:51 PM Post #316 of 685
jagwap said:
You have repeatedly claimed to have proved a negative: that all uncoloured DACs sound the same. Also from memory I think you agreed with the regulars here that 44..1khz/16bit cannot be distiguished from higher resolutions, also stated as a proved negative. So I'm surprised to see you write that you cannot prove a negative, as you have spent so muct time and effort on doing excactly that.

So, and this us the wider audience in sound science, now I have given three examples from two sources (including the paper from Klippel further up the thread) of measured differences in speaker drive units, do you still have the stance that run-in/burn-in/break-in cannot exist? True a woofer is larger than a headphone driver, but a sensible argument is that the effect scales, rather than disappears.

A 10-20% change in Fs is not trival, and that is just one parameter. Lets have a better debate on this.
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Some sanity in the midst of in...
 
Apr 2, 2018 at 10:59 PM Post #317 of 685
jagwap said:
Reasonably argued, but it is equally easy to argue that if a headphone driver of a fifth of the diameter has a fifth of the mechanical movement, with have a fifth of the burn-in effect. That in turn may be proportional to the size of the output, resulting in a similar effect to that of a speaker driver. As you say, no one here has presented the hard evidense yet.

I returned a pair of headphones and got a brand new replacement. The difference was noticable. So I tried the demo pair, which sounded like I remember my broken pair sounding. I know this is inadmissible evidence here m'lud, and it could be down to tolerances, but it could be break-in.

Oh and anyone who accepts +-3dB tolerance on a decent headphone in the midband is not very fussy. +-1.5dB is a reasonable tolerance except the frequency extremes, and manufactures can do better if they spend the money.
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well yes and no. the practical amplitudes necessary in a headphone's dynamic driver are so small, the designers usually don't bother with ... how is it called in English... a surround suspension? the "stuff around the diaphragm", to talk like an expert^_^. (step one, convince the readers that you know your subject by using impressive lingo: check!)

but in general, what I reject is really just "I felt a change in headphone X, so I know burn in is real". I don't have a special desire to disprove that driver burn in exists in headphones, we agree that we need proper evidence to draw conclusions and that's where we should all be. in a multi variable system, we can't just go and decide on one clear cause for no reason without proper control over the other known variables. even less so when a one of those variables is a dude and his mind.

to follow on up on a previous post, more repeatable evidence, fewer empty claims. if we just do that we should be good and I'll stop whining.
 
Apr 3, 2018 at 12:11 AM Post #320 of 685
Did not read the whole thing, but if we take burn-in seriously, at what point does wear-out start deteriorating sound? Not just earpads but the drivers as well.
 
Apr 3, 2018 at 12:29 AM Post #321 of 685
ScubadudeSA said:
Did not read the whole thing, but if we take burn-in seriously, at what point does wear-out start deteriorating sound? Not just earpads but the drivers as well.
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Well if the majority of burn-in happens in the first 20 hours, and asymtotes to a steady state in 50 - 200 hours, but the drivers wear out after serveral thousand hours if played at their rated output (unlikely in domestic use. Your neighbour would call the police): I think there is a section in the middle of the lifetime of the driver where it stabilizes to a useful and predictable set of parameters.
 
Apr 3, 2018 at 1:24 AM Post #323 of 685
That is some funky ****![/QUOTE]

When I was a kid, my dad listened to Wayne King albums. They always sounded to me like he was playing them at the wrong speed.

 
Apr 3, 2018 at 1:26 AM Post #324 of 685
jagwap said:
You have repeatedly claimed to have proved a negative: that all uncoloured DACs sound the same.
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Contradiction in terms? Uncolored DACs should sound the same, shouldn't they? The coloration is what would make them sound different!

Speakers would be more easily calibrated with EQ. I have trouble finding a good EQ app for my mobile devices
 
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Apr 3, 2018 at 1:31 AM Post #326 of 685
bigshot said:
Contradiction in terms? Uncolored DACs should sound the same, shouldn't they? The coloration is what would make them sound different!

Speakers would be more easily calibrated with EQ. I have trouble finding a good EQ app for my mobile devices
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I was trying to remember your definition. I do not agree with your statement, just trying to show that you have stated you have proved a negative to your own satisfaction.

If colouration definition is restricted to frequency response or harmonic distortion then all DACs do not sound the same.
 
Apr 3, 2018 at 2:30 AM Post #330 of 685
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