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Bravo Audio - funny looking little tube amps

Discussion in 'Headphone Amps (full-size)' started by ear8dmg, Sep 9, 2009.
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  1. UmustBKidn
    I wasn't speaking of you bro, I was talking about myself [​IMG]
  2. UmustBKidn
    I know what a DAC is. I was explaining what it was to the person who asked about it. I also pointed out what the right sort of equipment would be to use with Sennheiser HD 650's. I see nothing wrong with any of that.
    I never said that DAC's were "magical" or "special", so please don't put words in my mouth.
    There are indeed DAC's inside many devices that play audio, video, or both. But there is a huge difference between a DAC based on a cheap DAC chip, and one based on a more expensive chip. There is also much to be said for the quality of audio reproduced by the circuitry surrounding the DAC chip itself. I am amazed that you would debate that, but I guess you just don't know any better. I invite you to post your criticism of my postings elsewhere on this website, and see what sort of reaction you get to the notions you present. You don't need to believe me. In fact, I invite you to ask others. Please.
    If you genuinely think that a DAC isn't necessary, great. In that case, my advice to the OP would be to sell his HD650's and save himself about $400 bucks, buy some cans for under $100 bucks, and be done with it. But if he insists on keeping those cans, then he ought to do them justice by adding a DAC and amplifier that would do those headphones justice. There simply is no reason to suggest otherwise.
    So, yeah. You can get good, but not amazing sound, on a budget. Suggesting that you can get the best sound from HD650's without a decent DAC or amplifier is ludicrous. They simply will not work correctly without being amplified, and using an amp by itself would only result in double amplification and distortion.
    This is the last time I will be responding to your posts on this matter. I do not care to argue over stuff like this. I have better things to do with my time.
  3. UmustBKidn
    @yoyo711: I suggest that you do some more research on audio equipment before you spend a lot of money on headphones. The reason your HD650's sound the way they do, is that you are not driving them properly. If you really want to keep those headphones, then you need the right equipment to drive them, namely, a decent DAC and amplifier. This is not open for debate. It is a well known fact. I invite you to read the many hundreds of threads on this website that will confirm this.
    Whether you use a tube amp or solid state is a matter of personal preference. Those headphones need an amplifier and a good DAC. That is the answer to your question. That is why they sound "dark" to you. They will not sound good until you use a good amplifier and DAC. I am tired of repeating that now. That is the answer to the question.
    If you don't want to buy an amplifier or DAC, that is also fine. Sell those headphones and buy something cheaper that doesn't need an amp or DAC. Please, do some research for yourself, instead of forcing us to debate your choices for you. There is a lot of information on this website. You need to read it for yourself.
    Good luck.
  4. UmustBKidn
    No. Wrong answer. The person is not driving his headphones properly. That is the problem. Audio source files, good lord. Please. You really do not know what you're talking about.
  5. razor5cl
    What I would say to you, regarding Tube or Solid State is buy a good SS amp first to see if you like the general sound of your 650s, then if you really like it you can consider tubes. Tubes will change the sound and you may not like it, so stick to something cleaner firstly.
  6. UmustBKidn
    HD650's are best driven by tube type amplifiers. Please, don't believe me. Read elsewhere on this website. The overwhelming majority of people who use these headphones indicates that they are best driven by tube type amplifiers.
  7. ostewart
    I briefly tried the HD650 with my Bravo Ocean, sounded good to me. But i've never been a fan of the HD650, much prefer the SoundMAGIC HP200 or German Maestro GMP 400
  8. HOWIE13
    You prompted me to try my HD 650 with my V3 and it sounds good too. I find the SoundMagic HP200 can be somewhat bright in the treble. For my liking the HP100 is better balanced, overall.
  9. HOWIE13
    The problem is that we can only give you our best advice based on our own experiences and preferences. Ultimately only you, yourself, can determine if the 'true' sound of the HD 650 will suit your ears. I would go to a local HiFi shop that has decent equipment (DAC's Amps) and plug in your HD650's and listen. If you can compare different types of amps that way all the better. Then you will know if it is worth your while persevering with the HD650's. 
    yoyo711 likes this.
  10. yoyo711
    That is good idea
    I'll do that
    Thank you very much !!!! all the guys give me advice
    Thank you again
  11. money4me247 Contributor
    hahaha... @UmustBKidn, I don't know why you are taking such an argumentative tone. i never said anything disputing your opinions. however, the general vibe that you are giving off that you absolutely need to invest boatloads of money to have a nice audio set-up is simply not correct.
    it is perfectly adequate to drive the HD650 with a budget dac/amp such as something from Fiio (like the E17). The sound quality is perfectly fine. No, of course it is not the "best possible sound" you can possibility get for these headphones. However, even a DAC-less HD650 with the right amp will still have amazing sound quality compared to most everything else at that price point.
    this hobby is not about achieving the best possible sound possible, but achieving the best sound for your personal tastes within your budget. the price of dac/amp equipment doubles when going from a "budget-level" $100ish Fiio or Bravo set-up to the "entry-level" $200 Schitt or JDS offerings. To go further up to mid-tier equipment offerings by companies such as Emotiva or Matrix or Audio-gd would be another doubling of price, so you end up spending $400-500+ for external equipment, which would be as much as you are spending on the HD650 headphones. Now, to some people that last additional 10% improvement in sound quality gained by nicer equipment may be worth doubling your costs & spending an additional $400+, but for someone just starting out, I think that is pretty silly advice.
    I never said that a DAC is unnecessary to achieve the "best possible sound." Of course, the addition of a well-made DAC will improve the sound, but the question is by how much improvement are you getting for the price. it's the same thing with headphones lol. The HD650 is great, but it's not the best possible sound you can get as the price range of headphones goes up to $2,000k+. There is a point of diminishing returns for everyone where it doesn't make sense to spend more. The point is that you can definitely find good sub-$200 equipment adequate to drive the HD650 to the point where you don't notice any sonic flaws. You can get a $200 DAP such as the Fiio X3 or iBasso DX-50 with a top of the line WM8740 DAC chip and powerful enough amp to drive 300ohm headphones. It is also true that a properly amped HD650 without a DAC sounds great & the addition of a DAC will not drastically alter the sound quality (aka will not improve the sound by more than maybe 25% at most). If OP only has an additional $120 to spend on external equipment, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to spend that into an amp & be done with it. Or he can get an budget amp/dac combo. But there are definitely options at that price point.
    the truth is that the source files is the biggest factor of determining your sound quality. that is a fact. the dac & amp really has marginal impact on the sound quality relative to your source and headphones. if he is using a dedicated Sony home theater stereo amplifier (designed for powering speakers), he is most certainly giving the small dynamic headphone drivers inside the HD650 enough juice. therefore, it makes sense to ask what kind of source is he feeding the headphones. No matter how much juice, extra equipment, or expensive headphones you throw at a bad source is not recorded with a good sound stage... you will not get good sound stage. If sound stage is still an issue after testing with a adequate amplifier, I don't think that the answer would be to buy a different amplifier. I feel like looking at his source files is an obvious and helpful free step that shouldn't be so hastily dismissed lol (esp since the poster seems unfamiliar a lot of basic audiophile concepts). if he is still unsatisfied with the sound stage of these headphones, it would be a good idea for him to try other headphones known to have great sound stage such as the AKG Q701 to compare.
    Your suggestion of getting an easy-to-drive low impedance pair of headphones is a great alternative that I think the user should think about. However, it is not impossible to figure out an acceptable solution within his budget for his HD650. lol.
    also I don't think that kind of argumentative attitude is not helpful for the poster. we are all just throwing out suggestions to help him. I can see you have a different perspective on this matter than me, and that is totally chill. I just happen to disagree & I think that he can find something within his price range that will meet his needs. hahah. cheers.
  12. razor5cl
    I think he mentioned somewhere that he uses lossless.
  13. UmustBKidn
    I'm no longer interested in listening to the attitude, and the misinformation. Welcome to my blocked list.
  14. terance
    Any ideas on how to get rid or minimize the shining of the blue light?
    I've tried filling that hole with tiny spongy things, but it still shines out of the bottom.
    I can't really complain, it's a pretty decent $60 tube amp.  Just want to get rid of that damn light!
    *tried searching thread, but didn't find anything, might have been using the wrong search terms?*
  15. razor5cl
    I think someone painted over it with green nail polish. I might try that as well.
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