[techboy]

Because some people feel volume is everything. However, driving properly and getting adequate volume are not related.

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

Honestly I find that even a fiio e9 has issues driving the fostex and k702s to their potential. 

That's not the point, of course they are going to have troubles driving it to there potential, what I'm saying is that it doesn't require lot's of power, it can be driven by those portable amp's. 

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

Because some people feel volume is everything. However, driving properly and getting adequate volume are not related.

Bingo! Right on the money. 

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

Bingo! Right on the money. 

Yeap
 
And I also suggest that you do NOT run Mad Dog Modded Fostex on these amps... them cans need a SERIOUSLY clean and LEAN amp [which I why I now have a Matrix M with a very Lean Aftermarket OP] that being said I do miss my indeed, q.q she was just posted in a picture *cries* oh well glad he's enjoying it truth b told the BEST bass I ever had was my Hm 601 Line Out to an E11 to my 2500hm dt 990s, it was just every kinda of Yes 

 

[techboy]

Why doesn't mad dogs run on these amps?

 

[RAZRr1275]

Quote:

That's not the point, of course they are going to have troubles driving it to there potential, what I'm saying is that it doesn't require lot's of power, it can be driven by those portable amp's.

Looks like we have different definitions of requiring lots of power. For me requiring lots of power means requiring lots of power to sound good. 
 
As far as why modded fostex don't work well for these amps it's that the low end loses definition and to me it just sounds extremely slow and syrupy in a bad way. 

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

Looks like we have different definitions of requiring lots of power. For me requiring lots of power means requiring lots of power to sound good. 
 
As far as why modded fostex don't work well for these amps it's that the low end loses definition and to me it just sounds extremely slow and syrupy in a bad way. 

Exactly

 

[DefQon]

Quote:

Looks like we have different definitions of requiring lots of power. For me requiring lots of power means requiring lots of power to sound good. 
 
As far as why modded fostex don't work well for these amps it's that the low end loses definition and to me it just sounds extremely slow and syrupy in a bad way. 

Ok let me teach you a few things.
 
Power/current + headphone does not equal driving a headphone to it's potential, it can apply to some headphones mostly orthos but not dynamics. Synergy between the amp and the headphone is just as important as pumping lot's of power into the transducers reaching it's potential, if you haven't realised, alot of mid/high end headphones sound great on end game high end amp's, most of these amp's don't even provide a lot of power on paper (specs), it's the synergy that sounds great.
 
Project86's old review on the Matrix M Stage + HD800 pairing was so impressive, that the sound from the synergy from the two, the sound quality was on par with this Luxman amp costing almost 10x more than the Matrix M Stage which is a modified circuit off the Lehmann Black Cube.
 
The reason the T50RP don't sound great out of the Bravo amp is because the T50RP is not suited for tube amp's such as the Bravo, you might have a class A hybrid with a solid state front end and sound great. Tube rolling on the Bravo/Sunrise/Indeed/Muse or any other amp using the same base circuit design gains the most benefit.

 

[brother love]

...Synergy between the amp and the headphone is just as important as pumping lot's of power into the transducers reaching it's potential, if you haven't realised, alot of mid/high end headphones sound great on end game high end amp's, most of these amp's don't even provide a lot of power on paper (specs), it's the synergy that sounds great."

I agree with you 100% on system synergy whether it is a headphone system or a main system.  It is a grossly overlooked factor when mating components.

The reason the T50RP don't sound great out of the Bravo amp is because the T50RP is not suited for tube amp's such as the Bravo, you might have a class A hybrid with a solid state front end and sound great. Tube rolling on the Bravo/Sunrise/Indeed/Muse or any other amp using the same base circuit design gains the most benefit.

Could you elaborate on this a bit?  I am seriously looking at the Project Sunrise II amp (particularly since I can utilize an existing 6v tube collection that I already have for my Grant Fidelity TD-11).  I currently use the TD-11 "tube out" for main system amp & speakers.  I was going to use the tube-less "line out" for a headphone amp like those mentioned.

The headphones that I was considering (in order of preference) were the Mad Dog Fostex T50RP, Beyerdynamic DT880, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-400, & AKG K-701.

 

[DefQon]

Before I give out recommendations what is your budget?

 

[RAZRr1275]

Quote:

Ok let me teach you a few things.
 
Power/current + headphone does not equal driving a headphone to it's potential, it can apply to some headphones mostly orthos but not dynamics. Synergy between the amp and the headphone is just as important as pumping lot's of power into the transducers reaching it's potential, if you haven't realised, alot of mid/high end headphones sound great on end game high end amp's, most of these amp's don't even provide a lot of power on paper (specs), it's the synergy that sounds great.
 
Project86's old review on the Matrix M Stage + HD800 pairing was so impressive, that the sound from the synergy from the two, the sound quality was on par with this Luxman amp costing almost 10x more than the Matrix M Stage which is a modified circuit off the Lehmann Black Cube.
 
The reason the T50RP don't sound great out of the Bravo amp is because the T50RP is not suited for tube amp's such as the Bravo, you might have a class A hybrid with a solid state front end and sound great. Tube rolling on the Bravo/Sunrise/Indeed/Muse or any other amp using the same base circuit design gains the most benefit.

I'm well aware that synergy is important. In the case of the fostex and k702s current is pretty critical though to making things sound good. 
 
The bravo v2 and garage1217 are both class a hybrid offerings and trust me tube rolling didn't make the fostex or k702s sound good. I have a bunch of different tubes that I tried. It's that it doesn't deliver enough current.
Quote:

I agree with you 100% on system synergy whether it is a headphone system or a main system.  It is a grossly overlooked factor when mating components.
Could you elaborate on this a bit?  I am seriously looking at the Project Sunrise II amp (particularly since I can utilize an existing 6v tube collection that I already have for my Grant Fidelity TD-11).  I currently use the TD-11 "tube out" for main system amp & speakers.  I was going to use the tube-less "line out" for a headphone amp like those mentioned.

The headphones that I was considering (in order of preference) were the Mad Dog Fostex T50RP, Beyerdynamic DT880, Sennheiser HD600, HiFiMan HE-400, & AKG K-701.

I'd recommend one of the garage1217 offerings. If you want to go to the beyers or senns immediately I'd suggest the Ember if its within budget as its designed to have enough power for all sorts of headphones. If you plan for going for the low impedance cans the Sunrise II will do fine but it struggles a bit with high impedance headphones.

 

[brother love]

$850 for cans & amp. Portability not required.

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

$850 for cans & amp. Portability not required.

Wow, then get the heck off this thread xD
 
You could Easily get a Little Dot MK IV and something like the Dt 880 600 ohm, the Ath W1000x, or the SennHesier HD 600 or 650. I'd recommend going spilt down the middle. $425 for cans $425 for an amp. And for $425 there are a lot of really nice options out there depending on what you want! 

 

[brother love]

Well, I am exploring all options. If I can get an able-bodied tube headamp that has the same 6v tubes that I have for my DAC, then I have more sheckles for a better set of headphones, some better cables, etc..

 

[Judge Buff]

Quote:

Ok where to start as there seem's to be a lot of miss-information here.....
 
 
The Sunrise, Bravo, Indeed are all based on the same class a 12AU7 circuit with the original Sunrise a bit modified taking into account of no limitations and skimping out on quality with price ratio.
 
The P-S is indeed a step above the Bravo and Indeed but with extensive modding and fixing the flaws of the circuitry of the Bravo and Indeed where they skipped out due to cost on the Bravo and Indeed, the latter two are not very far off behind the Sunrise.
 
This is coming from someone who has built and modded over 4 Project Sunrise II amps, over a dozen Indeed G2, G1 and Bravo v1, v2 and v3 amp's.
 
There comes a saying you get what you pay for and this applies exactly to the Bravo and Indeed line of amp's. The Indeed G3 is almost neck to neck against P-S overall. 
 
What else is disappointing is that I'm currently rebuilding my Bravo v2 in a full sized enclosure with a regulated 24v power supply, change of resistors, pot, hp / rca jacks etc to better parts to see how far I can take a $50 hybrid tube amp to. Measuring the cheap resistors used show alot of drift from my DMM away from it's original rated values which is obviously 1 factor to decreasing the sound quality as the rated resistance is all over the place. 
 
As with Little Dot vs Woo WA6, that depends on which Little Dot amp you're talking about, the LD MK 1,2 and 3's are nothing special as evident from there prices, just for references, my LD MK VI+ wipes the floor compared to all the dynamic Woo amp's up to the WA5, an amp that cost 3.5x as much as my VI+, and they are both neck to neck on some area's of sound. There is also nothing special about Woo amp's except the cost you're paying is a good build and fancy enclosure, the circuitry are bog standard ones that have been around for decades modified from time to time, in this case a circuitry that Jack has thrown a bunch of fancy boutique parts thinking it will dramatically improve the sound of. Very much alike as some experience posters here saying Ray Samuals Darkstar amp is nothing but a hot rodded (fail infact) gainclone amplifier costing much less.
Tell me you're joking with this post? T50RP and AKG K/Q70X headphones are not hard to drive end of story. A bee's dick Fiio E5 can even drive the K702's, they don't need power, same can be said for the stock woeful T50RP's. If you're finding it hard to drive them, then it mean's you failed to mod your Bravo properly or have a broken unit, because I can tell you, these can drive 600ohm high z Beyer DT990 Prem's no problem or my LCD2's for that matter.
 
Indeed the Bravo can be modded for biasing, you need to remove the two small Rubycon caps next to the tube socket in between the volume jack, 1 trimpot for each channel. Rockgrotto has extensive information on the exact value of the trimpot you need. 

This person knows whereof he speaks... The beauty of these Indeeds and Bravos IS that they cost pocket change and are EASY to mod! Little changes pay big dividends in sound quality. If I paid $200+ for a Sunrise Whatever, after my wife beat me half to death for spending $200+, I'd still look for mods to make on it. My G2 FrankenAmp sounds amazing. I paid $110 (I think) for two of them without tubes and only one PS. I still haven't modded one of them and I also have a G3 to mod. My FrankenAmp sounds better to my old ears than the stock G3 does. I'm saving the G3 mod for a cold weather project to do in between football games this fall/winter. Start cheaply, buy great replacement parts, practice your solder skills, then tinker...