[yuhengtiger]

I just started to own a p7 wireless. I listen to music from my macbook pro. Do I need to buy a aptx bluetooth transmitter for better sound? Any suggestions on which one I should get? Thank you!

 

[Slaphead]

I just started to own a p7 wireless. I listen to music from my macbook pro. Do I need to buy a aptx bluetooth transmitter for better sound? Any suggestions on which one I should get? Thank you!

aptX is already in MacOS

Try this - http://www.theghostbit.com/2015/03/force-mac-os-x-to-use-aptx-with-your.html - to confirm that your headphones are connected via aptX, or, if not, follow the instructions to force aptX

To be honest forcing aptX if the BT connection is already AAC is probably a waste of time, as AAC is as good as, if not better, than aptX.

 

[yuhengtiger]

aptX is already in MacOS

Try this - http://www.theghostbit.com/2015/03/force-mac-os-x-to-use-aptx-with-your.html - to confirm that your headphones are connected via aptX, or, if not, follow the instructions to force aptX

To be honest forcing aptX if the BT connection is already AAC is probably a waste of time, as AAC is as good as, if not better, than aptX.

Thank you, this is very helpful! So If I use my macbook as source, will it automatically use AAC to communicate with P7 ? Do I need to do any setup on the P7 side or the Mac side? Thanks!

 

[Slaphead]

You shouldn't need to do any setup as the mac will almost certainly default to AAC if the headphone is also AAC compatible.

I'm pretty sure the order of preference for Macs is AAC, aptX, and then SBC. All BT headphones support SBC, but not all support AAC or aptX. The P7 supports both AAC and aptX in addition to SBC

 

[yuhengtiger]

You shouldn't need to do any setup as the mac will almost certainly default to AAC if the headphone is also AAC compatible.

I'm pretty sure the order of preference for Macs is AAC, aptX, and then SBC. All BT headphones support SBC, but not all support AAC or aptX. The P7 supports both AAC and aptX in addition to SBC

Good to know! Thanks again.

 

[dog]

finally aquired new P7W for 290$. still looked for more alternatives, but looks like there's none in the wireless headphones area. beoplays h8 h9 had non exciting reviews, same for audiotechnica 9's, focal listen, and n60nc likely wouldn't compete either (but i'd love to hear n60 because they're likely best onear wireless phones!). sonys and qc35 are heavily propped in every review (including praises for great design lol), it is clear who write the cheques. noise cancelling headphones are for functionality (button) chasers and it's clear from all users they can't compete in sound either. anyway i didnt test any of those mentioned above, which would otherwise perfectly complete the list of wireless phones tested.

opening - foldable (thanks god), nice leather cushions, memory foam cushions, small enough (i actually wanted onears first), nice leather case but not strong (not to put into luggage) with secret magnets, cables (immediatelly upgraded firmware)..nice
the thing is i quit listening to hd700 because theyre so big, not wireless (and it IS finally time for wireless), and didnt really fancy carefully putting them into box after each listen... got iems instead, but any iems make my ears itchy, so i need wireless great sounding phones on-ear. Basically, if i havent tried P7s, i'd have bought on-ears. Have to say, over-ear is still a nice compromise between on-ears and around-ears. And that is the size factor here, still manageable.
HD700 were 'throw any type of music and expect no flaws', P7W are not the same level but very close. first important thing is they sound lively, spatious, but knock knock on the back - they are really of closed design. two flaws vs audiofile headphones:
1.boosted bass (got used to it quickly, while was initially shocked in a test room)
2.recessed mids (especially older recordings will bit annoy by less bodied voices... its not a huge drop, but but.. we would like perfection)
The best song to test these is Alicia Keys-Here-Illusion of bliss. Youll get isolated drum punches, her voice (oh my, you will throw other headphones aways when she shouts weirdly), and all this soul performance, breaths and background sounds. You can exactly analyze all in this song. HD700 no contest, wont even mention it, always plays *.* fine. P7W benefits from a modern recording, handling so much detail well, with soundstage width/depth ratio 1,2. DT770, while used for another genres, very strong here, but piercing often. Fidue iems gives intimate presentation (crazy, but those expensive foams work) that is physically touching, i wont sell those ever (using in the office). Metallica live sounds poor and flat on DT770 (the "basshead" phones, oops). Turns it into libtard festival compared to P7W. In the end, that P7W "signature" works, if you get used to some nuances, but if they ever produce firmware to slightly tweak points 1), 2), i will happily update. In that case, P7W would be complete HD700 replacement. Im already selling those wired ones

Few reviews on P7W, mostly ***** received or **** only from those folks who precisely didnt like points 1) or 2). List of all reviews:
https://www.techspot.com/products/headsets/bowers-wilkins-p7.150610/
http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Headphones/Wireless-Headphones/Wireless-Headphones/P7-Wireless.html

But this guy nailed it well (take Oppo as a HD7-800 clone, AFAIK they should be the same level, and enjoy comparision):
https://everydaylisteningblog.wordp...detailed-comparison-after-6-months-ownership/

Noise isolation. While very correctly the line drops above 200hz, the maximum -db is not great:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BowersWilkinsP7WirelessWiredPassive.pdf
but in reality, they block so well, cant hear voice, babies screaming, nothing.
Fatigue, sibillance, piercing - none.

putting them on the list of phones i memorize (in the correct order hopefully, breaking down mid category as this is where most folks buy phones):
---------------------------------- high class:
A] comfy giants AUDEEZE LCD3, iems SHURE SE846, __insert all your $1000+ phones here___

B] SENN HD700

C] B&W P7W, SENN HD600 (lacking exactly opposite qualities), SENN HD800 (bit of momentum syndrome)
---------------------------------- mid class:
A] ...kinda skipped this level, im sure there are lot of wired models in the top-mid range...

B] B++] BEYER "drummers" DT770, cheap iem FIDUE65, _____insert all your chinese jewels here lol_____

(all 3 estimated) BOSE plastic QC35, plastic SONY MDR1000X, onear AKG N60NC
B+] onear "Sennheiser" Y50BT. cheap iem SOUNDMAGIC50
all onears B&W P5W, MARSHALL MID, JAYS uJAYS
B] SENN MOMENTUM2 (so you finally swapped signature with AKG, ok.. hated AKG 10y ago exactly for this sound)​

C] cheap wireless iem QCY Q8, cheap iem KZ ED, "Momentum" K271 (one example 10y ago)

SENN 4.50 (bt issue? very compressed muffled sound)
BEOPLAY H? (bt issue? very compressed muffled sound; remember hightlight of very interesting fast controlled lows)​

---------------------------------- low class:
A] onear SENN PX200

onear KOSS PORTAPRO​

B]

C] ___insert all your lifeless monitors here, if youre an engineer haha_____

tl;dr: P7W are entry top class phones and accidentally the best wireless headphones at this time.

 

[Soundizer]

If the Sony you skipped was the MDR-1000X then it's well worth a listen. It's a different presentation to the P7W for sure, being more towards neutral, but it's a fast, tight punchy, very rythmic headphone with plenty of detail. I own both the P7W and the MDR-1000X, and I couldn't really say that one was better than the other overall. They just have different strengths.

If you have a Sony device which supports LDAC then Sony MDR-1000X OR SONY 1ABT are the best choice as they have LDAC.

LDAC is by far the best Bluetooth Audio fidelity with the new [APT.X HD ] following in second.
Also Apple devices can potentially sound great and good as AptX, but not in the same league as APT.X HD or LDAC.

More confusing is Apple hotspot connection which might be opened up to other devices and that is better than any of the above Bluetooth technologies.
The new Chord Poly can connect to iPhone via hotspot. Magnificent lossless connection.

 

[Luminance]

finally aquired new P7W for 290$. still looked for more alternatives, but looks like there's none in the wireless headphones area. beoplays h8 h9 had non exciting reviews, same for audiotechnica 9's, focal listen, and n60nc likely wouldn't compete either (but i'd love to hear n60 because they're likely best onear wireless phones!). sonys and qc35 are heavily propped in every review (including praises for great design lol), it is clear who write the cheques. noise cancelling headphones are for functionality (button) chasers and it's clear from all users they can't compete in sound either. anyway i didnt test any of those mentioned above, which would otherwise perfectly complete the list of wireless phones tested.

opening - foldable (thanks god), nice leather cushions, memory foam cushions, small enough (i actually wanted onears first), nice leather case but not strong (not to put into luggage) with secret magnets, cables (immediatelly upgraded firmware)..nice
the thing is i quit listening to hd700 because theyre so big, not wireless (and it IS finally time for wireless), and didnt really fancy carefully putting them into box after each listen... got iems instead, but any iems make my ears itchy, so i need wireless great sounding phones on-ear. Basically, if i havent tried P7s, i'd have bought on-ears. Have to say, over-ear is still a nice compromise between on-ears and around-ears. And that is the size factor here, still manageable.
HD700 were 'throw any type of music and expect no flaws', P7W are not the same level but very close. first important thing is they sound lively, spatious, but knock knock on the back - they are really of closed design. two flaws vs audiofile headphones:
1.boosted bass (got used to it quickly, while was initially shocked in a test room)
2.recessed mids (especially older recordings will bit annoy by less bodied voices... its not a huge drop, but but.. we would like perfection)
The best song to test these is Alicia Keys-Here-Illusion of bliss. Youll get isolated drum punches, her voice (oh my, you will throw other headphones aways when she shouts weirdly), and all this soul performance, breaths and background sounds. You can exactly analyze all in this song. HD700 no contest, wont even mention it, always plays *.* fine. P7W benefits from a modern recording, handling so much detail well, with soundstage width/depth ratio 1,2. DT770, while used for another genres, very strong here, but piercing often. Fidue iems gives intimate presentation (crazy, but those expensive foams work) that is physically touching, i wont sell those ever (using in the office). Metallica live sounds poor and flat on DT770 (the "basshead" phones, oops). Turns it into libtard festival compared to P7W. In the end, that P7W "signature" works, if you get used to some nuances, but if they ever produce firmware to slightly tweak points 1), 2), i will happily update. In that case, P7W would be complete HD700 replacement. Im already selling those wired ones

Few reviews on P7W, mostly ***** received or **** only from those folks who precisely didnt like points 1) or 2). List of all reviews:
https://www.techspot.com/products/headsets/bowers-wilkins-p7.150610/
http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/Headphones/Wireless-Headphones/Wireless-Headphones/P7-Wireless.html

But this guy nailed it well (take Oppo as a HD7-800 clone, AFAIK they should be the same level, and enjoy comparision):
https://everydaylisteningblog.wordp...detailed-comparison-after-6-months-ownership/

Noise isolation. While very correctly the line drops above 200hz, the maximum -db is not great:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BowersWilkinsP7WirelessWiredPassive.pdf
but in reality, they block so well, cant hear voice, babies screaming, nothing.
Fatigue, sibillance, piercing - none.

putting them on the list of phones i memorize (in the correct order hopefully, breaking down mid category as this is where most folks buy phones):
---------------------------------- high class:
A] comfy giants AUDEEZE LCD3, iems SHURE SE846, __insert all your $1000+ phones here___

B] SENN HD700

C] B&W P7W, SENN HD600 (lacking exactly opposite qualities), SENN HD800 (bit of momentum syndrome)
---------------------------------- mid class:
A] ...kinda skipped this level, im sure there are lot of wired models in the top-mid range...

B] B++] BEYER "drummers" DT770, cheap iem FIDUE65, _____insert all your chinese jewels here lol_____

(all 3 estimated) BOSE plastic QC35, plastic SONY MDR1000X, onear AKG N60NC
B+] onear "Sennheiser" Y50BT. cheap iem SOUNDMAGIC50
all onears B&W P5W, MARSHALL MID, JAYS uJAYS
B] SENN MOMENTUM2 (so you finally swapped signature with AKG, ok.. hated AKG 10y ago exactly for this sound)​

C] cheap wireless iem QCY Q8, cheap iem KZ ED, "Momentum" K271 (one example 10y ago)

SENN 4.50 (bt issue? very compressed muffled sound)
BEOPLAY H? (bt issue? very compressed muffled sound; remember hightlight of very interesting fast controlled lows)​

---------------------------------- low class:
A] onear SENN PX200

onear KOSS PORTAPRO​

B]

C] ___insert all your lifeless monitors here, if youre an engineer haha_____

tl;dr: P7W are entry top class phones and accidentally the best wireless headphones at this time.

Great sum up!

I read that you initially wanted on-ears. I actually made a mistake and bought on-ear headphones for portable use - Beyerdynamic Custom Street. They turned out to be so uncomfortable for me that I could not even focus on the music. The clamp force out of the box was a pain for my ears just after few minutes of use. And even after a proper stretching, I could not get a seal that would be suitable for long term listening.
I think that the only on-ears that have acceptable comfort are those with flat, soft cushions. I also have Sennheisers PX-100. They are very light and don't bother me at all.
But those with circular earpads just won't fit properly, at least on my ears.

Regarding the P7W - I also have it. Headphone almost perfect. Almost, except 2 things:
The mids are indeed recessed due to V shaped signature. Not ideal for classical music.
And I wish these headphones were a bit lighter. With 320 grams of weight they might be getting a little too heavy on the head after few hours of work, so some break is needed. But I guess that's the price of the quality materials used. Portable headphones which are lighter got other problems, like small pads (beoplay h6, meze 99) or inferior sound (sony mdr-1a, bose qc35, sennheiser hd569)

 

[dog]

Don't know if LDAC brings anything to table. Someone has to test. Otherwise it's just a marketing (just like AptX back from dead, presented as "new Qualcomm blabla", although the format is older than MP3 )
Ideally headphones could decode all audio formats directly. But we ended up in a different solution : double compression. First things first, make sure your source material is in good format (FLAC, IAFF, MP3 320kbps).
Notes:
- bitrate is already enough in SBC and later for this application, although i wouldn't mind having AptX losless or LDAC losless (wait, for Sony only? no thanks) to transfer my MP3..oh wait, for better sources
- there's a question how is LDAC processing, more important than the bitrate
- added resolution (bits, frequency scale) don't matter (as it was proven many times, CD quality is enough http://archimago.blogspot.cz/2014/06/24-bit-vs-16-bit-audio-test-part-ii.html)
- AptX back from dead for Bluetooth makes sense, as the results are good and latency microscopic (kudos to Plantronics for best implementation). Compression is 1:4 without cutting whole range like MP3, but with similar tricks to make the format lossy. Audible? Likely not.
- axiom: physical earphone drivers are the most important no matter what data you throw in it. Wouldnt choose worse phones with better codec.

So let's ask some engineer:
http://www.sereneaudio.com/blog/how-good-is-bluetooth-audio-at-its-best
You can check individual tests, you clearly see difference when plugging your wireless earphone and unplugging (using Source samples). I can hear 10khz noise. Scary. Will it spoil music? Not likely as hardly anything plays that high (https://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/images/main_chart.jpg). You will still be able to enjoy piccolo () or extreme female voice () without additional noise. But yes, you can go through and hear noise via AptX right where the author sees noise. But that's not music.

Overall test recommends AptX overy others. So it looks like implementation fits the purpose. Personally can hear small difference switching wireless with P7W, noticably more "V" signature.

tl;dr: different codec won't make your earphones better. Humans cannot grasp too high fidelity (bits), high frequencies as they're not in music, and not even compression artefacts (MP3, SBC, AptX) except when handpicked for analysis or with low bitrate (MP3 <192kbps). AptX is solid. MP3 with low bitrate is the main practical problem.

 

[yuhengtiger]

How is P7 wireless doing on vocals, and male vocals specifically? I tend to like intimate vocals like hd650. Did I pick the wrong choice buying p7?

 

[White Lotus]

A few shots I took for a review.

 

[Soundizer]

Has anyone noticed since the latest firmware revision a reduction in sound quality?

 

[Luminance]

Has anyone noticed since the latest firmware revision a reduction in sound quality?

Not sure, there was no firmware update since February. I am on v6.0.019
change log: http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Admin.../P7-Wireless/P7W_v6-0-019_ReleaseNotes_EN.pdf

 

[Sonic Defender]

No evidence that LDAC actually sounds better, but if you have it why not use it I say. Frankly having bit rates at 320 already provide transparent quality to the user so going above Apt X which can exceed 320 if I'm not mistaken is already up to the task. Just as an aside, sorry for the sound science forum like deviation, but I want to describe a listening experiment I performed at a head-fi meet about 3 years ago now. I had 7 subjects participate in a multiple trial (4 or 5 trial per subject) blind listening test. I have a background in experimental psychology so I believe I did a good job at controlling things well. For instance, there was only one track used by everybody, the hardware was the same for everybody, I randomly controlled the order of the pairings used for each trial and before the subjects began the trials, they set the volume that they liked and then were not allowed to change it after the initial setting was to their satisfaction.

So I took a very dynamic track, One Trick Pony by Holly Cole and ripped a 320mp3 from the lossless master. Each trial consisted of the subject listening to 2 minutes of the track from the beginning. I would vary if I played the mp3 or lossless file first. The 7 subjects were almost all young people with very good hearing including a 19 year old young woman, although one subject was in his late 40s. Two of the young guys were absolutely convinced they could tell the difference between lossless and the compressed files and they assured me they had self tested many times. If it isn't a blind listening trial it is completely meaningless so you can't test yourself, but I digress. After all the trials were done not one subject was able to detect the lossless versus the mp3 at better than a 50% detection rate. The room was ideal for the testing as it wasn't noisy at all and the headphones were closed. This low detection rate means absolutely guessing was at play. It also is meaningful as the repeated trials with the same file means the subjects were getting trained and able to focus on certain aspects of the track which had everything, percussion, jazz guitar, female vocals, acoustic bass and was quite well recorded. Despite all of that nobody could tell 320 from lossless and these results aren't unique, they are normal when you read about other blind listening tests.

So the moral of the story is, that it seems highly unlikely that even if LDAC can do much higher bit rate that there is any chance you can hear it anyway. Not to mention in typical mobile use like public transit or a work station at the office it becomes even less likely that these higher bit rates matter for more than intellectual curiosity. Anyway, hopefully I didn't derail the thread or offend anybody. I just wanted to provide at least some information from actual decent testing that seems to support that good old Bluetooth transmission rates we typically enjoy with say the P7 are quite capable and obsessing over greater bit rates may be wasted mental energy.

 

[Slaphead]

@dog - One codec not mentioned in that engineers assesment is AAC, and IMO this is by far the most important lossy codec when considering Bluetooth.

Now if you’re sitting on a library of FLAC (or ALAC) then the following is proabably not really relevant apart from one detail. However if your library consists of lossy formats then the following may interest you in terms of BT headphones.

The AAC format is the only format that can be transmited via bluetooth without the need for any transcoding as long as your BT HPs support AAC and the track you’re playing is in AAC format. Every other format will require transcoding. It’s possible that AAC will require transcoding to a lower bitrate if the BT connection is bad, but it’s unlikely in typical use where the phone or DAP is likely to be much more than a metre away from the headphones.

OK, transcoding a lossless format to a lossy format is par for the course with BT HPs, and given that you’re starting with a “perfect” copy he impact will be minimal at least in terms of how BT HPs are generally used.

The potential problem comes with transcoding already lossy formats to another lossy format in that you lose quality with every transcode. Just as an example if you take a 320kbps MP3 and transcode it to another 320kbps MP3 you will lose quality - it will not transcode perfectly, This is exactly what happens with every other Bluetooth codec. You can’t store your library in aptX, SBC, or LDAC format, hence the need for transcoding. You can, however store your library in AAC format, and it can be transmitted over bluetooth without any transcoding loss.

OK, so maybe he hit in sound quality with transcoding is negligible, and I would agree with that in typical bluetooth usage scenarios. However transcoding requires CPU usuage which will affect the battery life of the device you’re using. This also applies to those with lossless libraries, which is the detail I was talking about earlier. WIth AAC it’s just a case of send the data - no transcoding necessary for the most part.

I really do wonder why AAC is not more widely adopted than it is. It’s by far the superior lossy format of all IMO.

Anyway back on topic to the P7W.