Bowers and Wilkins PX8 Wireless Discussion

Dec 15, 2024 at 6:39 PM Post #5,701 of 5,843
You can also adjust the output volume for the B&W within the MIDI software as well. Independent of the general volume control of the Mac.
Using:
1734305766501.png


It defaults to 48Khz and 24-bit for me at least when using USB-c, which is correct - this is what the B&W DAC supports:
1734305362859.png


And this is the headphones Bluetooth connection (no alternative format options available)
1734305424611.png


The thing is, these channel volume values (0.284 and 0.562) are simply the volume % I'm currently running in the Macbook. If I change macOS volume, these numbers change. So it's not a secondary volume at all, it's all part of the single volume system within macOS.

Or did you mean somewhere else?
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 2:13 AM Post #5,702 of 5,843
Yup aptxHD is fine, Id imagine not many PX8 users will use aptx-adaptive low latency mode unless their playing games or watching TV.

Either way I have found PX8s don't do aptx-adaptive low latency properly (crackling/clicks/pops/audio cut outs), tried it with several BT dongles and BT receivers/transmitters, normal aptx adaptive (high quality) is fine.

Would still be nice if any PX8 owner could enable aptx adaptive low latency on their BT dongle and listen to a song or 2 and check for clicks/pops/audio break ups, I could than update B&W tech support team to see if they can fix the issue since I have logged a case with them already.
Yes with the Creative Bt-w5 they do just that; as the Px7S2 does.
I think it's just bad bluetooth implementation by B&W
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 7:06 AM Post #5,703 of 5,843
Yep, just tested with my Ugreen BT501 dongle - aptX Adaptive LL does exactly what you describe: clicks/pops/audio break ups. All the other codecs that this dongle supports are fine (SBC, aptX, aptX HD, aptX Adaptive)

Thank you very much, its good to have confirmation of this fault. I was already aware of this fault since I had the PX8s a few years ago and returned it for this reason.

I should have actually logged the fault with B&W technical support but have done so today, will wait to see what they say. I don't believe they can fix it though since adaptive low latency got some improvements recently from 80ms to 50ms, so it may only work on BT 5.3/5.4 compatible gear.
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 10:21 AM Post #5,704 of 5,843
Using:
1734305766501.png

It defaults to 48Khz and 24-bit for me at least when using USB-c, which is correct - this is what the B&W DAC supports:
1734305362859.png

And this is the headphones Bluetooth connection (no alternative format options available)
1734305424611.png

The thing is, these channel volume values (0.284 and 0.562) are simply the volume % I'm currently running in the Macbook. If I change macOS volume, these numbers change. So it's not a secondary volume at all, it's all part of the single volume system within macOS.

Or did you mean somewhere else?
I just tried mine and it works as your does. Which is odd to me because in the past I've been able to independently control the volume of Bluetooth or line. out devices in the manner I described earlier. When I do so now, it works exactly as you described. Must be a change / update to Mac's OS during one of their recept updates that I was unaware of.

I'll keep experimenting when time permits and post if I find a way to change things back to the way they were.
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 10:28 AM Post #5,705 of 5,843
I just tried mine and it works as your does. Which is odd to me because in the past I've been able to independently control the volume of Bluetooth or line. out devices in the manner I described earlier. When I do so now, it works exactly as you described. Must be a change / update to Mac's OS during one of their recept updates that I was unaware of.

I'll keep experimenting when time permits and post if I find a way to change things back to the way they were.
Ok, didn't take long but I've figured out how I normally do this. You do have the MIDI controls as you outlined and screen-shot here. Those are all correct. You are able to adjust volume there.

I use Amazon Music (mostly) on my Mac. Within the "available devices" within Amazon music is a popup for all available outputs (wired and bluetooth). Within that popup is a volume control that is independent of the Mac MIDI interface and independent of the Mac volume control. This allows for more granularity and volume of just Amazon Music's output, not the Mac as a whole.

Depending on what music service you use on your Mac, try this approach from within the music app.
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 10:46 AM Post #5,706 of 5,843
Yes with the Creative Bt-w5 they do just that; as the Px7S2 does.
I think it's just bad bluetooth implementation by B&W

Thanks, yup I get the same issue regardless of source and same experience with the BT-W6, I am trying different work arounds to see if I can minimize or make it fixable since I would ideally prefer to keep the PX8s.

If you possibly can and also @KopaneDePooj if you can email B&W support here and just let them know it crackles/pops with adaptive aptx low latency mode, this would escalate the issue and hopefully get a quicker fix.

Actually anyone can email them above, the last firmware was 3.0 from August 2023 so we are long overdue improvements to BT connectivity/stability and other improvements.
thanks
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 12:40 PM Post #5,707 of 5,843
Ok, didn't take long but I've figured out how I normally do this. You do have the MIDI controls as you outlined and screen-shot here. Those are all correct. You are able to adjust volume there.

I use Amazon Music (mostly) on my Mac. Within the "available devices" within Amazon music is a popup for all available outputs (wired and bluetooth). Within that popup is a volume control that is independent of the Mac MIDI interface and independent of the Mac volume control. This allows for more granularity and volume of just Amazon Music's output, not the Mac as a whole.

Depending on what music service you use on your Mac, try this approach from within the music app.
Yeah both Apple Music and Spotify have a slider, but they are very small and imprecise. I was hoping for something better.

Thanks for looking.
 
Dec 17, 2024 at 4:59 AM Post #5,708 of 5,843
Have decided I'm going to return the PX8's after some more A/B testing between them and the Sennheiser Momentum 4's. To my ears they just sound better in the majority of tracks. They sound more clear and open but also the bass is more detailed while not muddying the other frequency ranges. The PX8's have that warm sound that works really well for some (intimate) tracks but it can hurt their performance in others. The SM4's don't look and feel nearly as good and I do prefer the physical buttons of the PX8. The SM4's bluetooth implementation does work better for me although it's definitely not faultless either (I get stutters and crackling noises on my PC when opting for the high quality sound mode but not on my laptop and phone). So while I definitely understand why people love the PX8's for me the SM4's are a better overall proposition at half the price (got them for €179 with a 5 year warranty included).
 
Dec 17, 2024 at 6:07 AM Post #5,709 of 5,843
It’s interesting to compare and contrast different people’s needs.

Right now if you asked me which headphones I would prefer between my Px8s and my Sennheiser HD600s I would need to think about it. Sure, you clearly get more detail, a lot more air/ambience and very realistic timbres out of the HD600s but that doesn’t necessarily mean more musical enjoyment.

For my type of music (which includes mostly orchestral or chamber music) the lushness of the Px8s when portraying acoustic instruments is seriously compelling even when comparing the downsides.

As Densen’s motto goes “life’s too short for boring hifi”. I’m not someone who cares about analytic sound if it brings less PRaT or worse timbre: I want enjoyable music which sounds like it does when you are in the orchestra playing or in the hall listening above all else.
 
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Dec 17, 2024 at 6:15 AM Post #5,710 of 5,843
Have decided I'm going to return the PX8's after some more A/B testing between them and the Sennheiser Momentum 4's. To my ears they just sound better in the majority of tracks. They sound more clear and open but also the bass is more detailed while not muddying the other frequency ranges. The PX8's have that warm sound that works really well for some (intimate) tracks but it can hurt their performance in others. The SM4's don't look and feel nearly as good and I do prefer the physical buttons of the PX8. The SM4's bluetooth implementation does work better for me although it's definitely not faultless either (I get stutters and crackling noises on my PC when opting for the high quality sound mode but not on my laptop and phone). So while I definitely understand why people love the PX8's for me the SM4's are a better overall proposition at half the price (got them for €179 with a 5 year warranty included).

Interesting regarding the BT implementation on the SM4 as you say it really is something important, sometimes more important than the comfort or sound quality even since if its not done correctly you end up with more issues making the product unusable. It's also one the reasons I maybe returning my PX8s.

Regarding your stuttering/crackling noises on the PC, you can try using your usb dongle device in another usb port sometimes the older usb 2.0 ports carry less interference then then 3.0 ones. If that does not work, sometimes it's the BT dongle itself. Its not an easy fix always though, I have had this issue with several BT dongles/Tx devices in the past so it becomes a witch hunt to get the right BT > device connection going.
 
Dec 17, 2024 at 6:32 AM Post #5,711 of 5,843
Interesting regarding the BT implementation on the SM4 as you say it really is something important, sometimes more important than the comfort or sound quality even since if its not done correctly you end up with more issues making the product unusable. It's also one the reasons I maybe returning my PX8s.

Regarding your stuttering/crackling noises on the PC, you can try using your usb dongle device in another usb port sometimes the older usb 2.0 ports carry less interference then then 3.0 ones. If that does not work, sometimes it's the BT dongle itself. Its not an easy fix always though, I have had this issue with several BT dongles/Tx devices in the past so it becomes a witch hunt to get the right BT > device connection going.
Interestingly I have been using my PX8 more than 2 years with iPhones, iPad, Mac and windows pcs, bt dongles from Sennheiser and Creative and a few tvs from Samsung and Lg. Never had an issue.
 
Dec 17, 2024 at 8:05 AM Post #5,712 of 5,843
Interestingly I have been using my PX8 more than 2 years with iPhones, iPad, Mac and windows pcs, bt dongles from Sennheiser and Creative and a few tvs from Samsung and Lg. Never had an issue.

Are you sure you are using aptx adaptive with the low latency mode enabled? It sounds like you are on the high/music mode with adaptive or aptx hd or another codec which works fine.

Samsung and LG TVs don't usually support aptx adaptive let alone low latency modes or BT dongles very well, LG OLEDs support aptx HD which is the wrong codec for low latency lip-sync playback (already emailed LG tech support on that major flaw but they were not interested)

I have been testing the PX8s with several different BT dongles and transceivers/transmitters last month, pretty confident the PX8s are faulty with their aptx adaptive LL mode implementation, since I review and test BT gear time to time (check my link in signature) and 3-4 other head-fi users have also confirmed the same fault with same symptoms.

If I switch to say Stax S5 and use aptx adaptive low latency mode, the issues are not there.

There is a fix but it's almost pointless, you can switch to high mode (music) with aptx adaptive or use another BT codec like aptx HD, but this introduces high latency for movies/games though making it almost unusable.
 
Dec 17, 2024 at 12:32 PM Post #5,713 of 5,843
Thanks, yup I get the same issue regardless of source and same experience with the BT-W6, I am trying different work arounds to see if I can minimize or make it fixable since I would ideally prefer to keep the PX8s.

If you possibly can and also @KopaneDePooj if you can email B&W support here and just let them know it crackles/pops with adaptive aptx low latency mode, this would escalate the issue and hopefully get a quicker fix.

Actually anyone can email them above, the last firmware was 3.0 from August 2023 so we are long overdue improvements to BT connectivity/stability and other improvements.
thanks
The site doesn't load for me.
I'll try later, but the are not going to do anything about it.
 
Dec 17, 2024 at 12:38 PM Post #5,714 of 5,843
The site doesn't load for me.
I'll try later, but the are not going to do anything about it.

thanks, try the standard link and then click headphones:
https://www.bowerswilkins.com/en-us/support.html

Might be that you have to use the B&W site in your country.

Yeah I do agree with you especially if the fault has been there for the last 2-3 years and nothing fixed, I have still attempted to make B&W tech team aware of the issue, so far only had the Cs confirmation email so will be interesting to see their tech teams official response.

I had the same fault with aptx adaptive LL with the PX7s, so I believe its possible their entire PX wireless range that is faulty with aptx adaptive LL.
 
Dec 20, 2024 at 2:34 AM Post #5,715 of 5,843
I got the PX8 for about 300 euros on black friday and compared them to the M4, QC Ultra and N9 Hybrid.
I absolutely love the PX8. They sound amazing, feel great while wearing them all day and have very good ANC.
My only gripe with them is the Bluetooth, especially the multipoint functionality. I always had to connect via the app. Bluetooth menu in Android always failed to connect.
Also when connecting a secondary device (Android tablet), I had to use the app. I usually use my tablet during commute and always having to use the app feels really cumbersome as they only connect to one device on its own.
In this thread I have read a few times that the multipoint implementation is good with the PX8. Now I wonder if there is anything wrong with my pair.
The QC Ultra and N9 Hybrid seamlessly connect to two devices and audio can be easily switched between the devices. This is what I'm missing with the PX8.
 

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