[Napalmhardcore]

Hi,
 
Over the past three years I have been steadily getting more and more into audio. I've now arrived at a point where I want to hear for myself what music "should" sound like to the extent of wanting to try and ensure bit perfect audio. I'm currently investigating different options, but the more I dig, the more questions I raise. As I raise more questions, the questions become more difficult to find answers to.
 
When it comes to PC audio, the information is not too difficult to find. I realise that with PC audio, there are hurdles to overcome such as 1) Getting your sound card/DAC out of the case and away from that noisey environment (which was one of the first things I did when I began my quest for better audio by using an external USB sound card). 2) Ensuring your sound card/DAC will fulfil your requirements (as my requirements have changed, I'm currently investigating options) 3) USB can reportedly be noisey itself and there are various devices designed to minimise this noise. 4) You must also ensure you have software that is compatible with the appropriate drivers (ASIO etc) to ensure the audio is output correctly. As it seems a PC is not ideal by default, I've been wondering if it might be better to buy a device specifically intended for audio rather than try and address the problems of using a PC as a source.
 
This has lead to a new line of research on my part and one where the answers don't seem to be out in the open. As I may be looking at upgrading my current AV receiver, I was wondering if I could kill two birds with one stone, as many of the receivers support FLAC via USB nowadays. There are also networking features available (which I haven't looked at the ins and outs of yet). While the manual (for the Yamaha RX-V581 in this case as it is a prospective buy) says what file formats are compatible, it doesn't have any information on how this is handled and whether it upsamples the audio. I've also looked at various compact hi-fi systems that also do not offer up this information.
 
I'm now left wondering, is it the norm for dedicated audio gear to playback bit perfect audio or is this something reserved for high end equipment? Basically I want something that will playback my audio files and CDs as they should natively be played without having to worry about noise. I'd also like to be able to use it for less critical but convenient listening duties (such as Spotify or when I quickly want to play something via Bluetooth).
 
Any insight would be much appreciated.

 

[PleasantSounds]

I think your expectations or understanding of "bit perfect"  goes a bit too far. "Bit perfect" does not mean "perfect". This term just signifies that the digital signal travels unaltered from the source to the DAC's input, meaning no equalization or other DSP, no upsampling, no mixing with other digital signals etc.What happens inside the DAC is out of scope for the "bit perfect" term - the DAC does whatever it needs to do to convert the signal.
 
How close the "bit perfect" is to "perfect" will indeed depend on the quality of your system, in particular the analog part of the audio chain starting from the DAC. The digital components are less critical as long as they can reliably deliver the "bit perfect" signal - without drop outs, timing errors and too much power supply noise.
 
Now regarding the receivers: I'm not familiar with the RX-V581, but if my Denon is anything to go by, it can play FLAC files directly, but that's not the same as USB DAC: it accepts only USB sticks or external disk drives (with type-A USB connector) and you can't connect a computer with audio player that way. If the spec says that it can process FLAC files then most likely it works just like my Denon (DAC doesn't care about file formats as it processes just the PCM stream). In other words: don't assume that presence of USB port in the receiver means automatically that it can be used as a USB DAC. I'm sure some receivers can, especially if they have the type-B USB port.
 
If you intend to keep using the PC as a source, then with many receivers it can be done through Toslink or Coax - if your PC and your receiver has one of these ports (many do).

 

[Napalmhardcore]

  I think your expectations or understanding of "bit perfect"  goes a bit too far. "Bit perfect" does not mean "perfect". This term just signifies that the digital signal travels unaltered from the source to the DAC's input, meaning no equalization or other DSP, no upsampling, no mixing with other digital signals etc.What happens inside the DAC is out of scope for the "bit perfect" term - the DAC does whatever it needs to do to convert the signal.
 
How close the "bit perfect" is to "perfect" will indeed depend on the quality of your system, in particular the analog part of the audio chain starting from the DAC. The digital components are less critical as long as they can reliably deliver the "bit perfect" signal - without drop outs, timing errors and too much power supply noise.
 
Now regarding the receivers: I'm not familiar with the RX-V581, but if my Denon is anything to go by, it can play FLAC files directly, but that's not the same as USB DAC: it accepts only USB sticks or external disk drives (with type-A USB connector) and you can't connect a computer with audio player that way. If the spec says that it can process FLAC files then most likely it works just like my Denon (DAC doesn't care about file formats as it processes just the PCM stream). In other words: don't assume that presence of USB port in the receiver means automatically that it can be used as a USB DAC. I'm sure some receivers can, especially if they have the type-B USB port.
 
If you intend to keep using the PC as a source, then with many receivers it can be done through Toslink or Coax - if your PC and your receiver has one of these ports (many do).

Sorry for the delayed response. I had to work today. By bit perfect, I simply mean running at its native sample rate (eg: 44.1Khz for CD etc). For example, my current sound card will play 44.1Khz files but it upsamples to 48Khz, therefore it is not bit perfect. I've also read articles that state that Windows automatically upsamples/downsamples any source that isn't 48Khz or 96Khz, which is why people use ASIO drivers to bypass Windows audio handling and output to DACs capable of playing files at their native sample rate.
 
I understand that the USB input on an AV receiver is used for flash drives. The idea there was to cut out the computer entirely and just put my music onto a flash drive and let the AV receiver playback the content. I just wasn't sure whether AV receivers or your garden variety hi-fi system will play these files back in their native sample rates or whether they upsample/downsample. Basically, the description of some DACs and higher end hi-fi gear will actually state that it natively plays back particular files. The fact that they state it in the first place (like it's a selling point) is what has me thinking that perhaps less expensive units don't natively playback the content but instead resample it. I just don't seem to be able to find any info about this topic.
 
I'm currently attached to my AV receiver via optical from my USB soundcard as the motherboard of my current (but soon to be replaced) PC doesn't have optical output.

 

[PleasantSounds]

If you google for Non-Oversampling DAC (or NOS DAC) you'll find some info about the technology and the DACs that use it.
 
Unfortunately, the cheaper DACs tend to be of the oversampling kind. This would be similar with receivers and most of the preamps with digital inputs. 

 

[Napalmhardcore]

  If you google for Non-Oversampling DAC (or NOS DAC) you'll find some info about the technology and the DACs that use it.
 
Unfortunately, the cheaper DACs tend to be of the oversampling kind. This would be similar with receivers and most of the preamps with digital inputs. 

Thanks. That is really helpful info.