[radrd]

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please dont take anythig i said the worng way. i enjoy these disagreements becaues it gives two different points to one topic.

No worries there. I prefer friendly disagreements whenever possible.

I agree that people get into the music business because they love music and sharing their message.

However, I disagree with the point that artists like Metallica get blinded by money and end up selling out.

When someone discovers they can get paid for doing something they love, then that's their goal. It becomes an investment. It stops simply being art once there is a paycheck involved.

At some point bands like Metallica and Aerosmith realize (or hope) that they can get more money by changing their style and appealing to a larger audience. Since they want to make fans happy with their music (I think you would agree that making people happy is part of the art), they don't mind changing their style, as it will provide a bigger paycheck. You would call that selling out. I would call that a new marketting strategy, since their original recording contract was the result of audience response to their music. Artists who can't "sell out" in the first place never have to sell out later when they are in a spotlight.

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look at bands from 30 or 40 years ago, do you really think they got paid nearly the same amount as bands today do??

I don't know much about economic history or music history, so I couldn't say exactly how the income of rock stars of yesterday compared to those of today. Regardless, they found that their talent could sell, even if they had to have two jobs.

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as far as concert prices being so high, you can say thank you to the concert promoters and the managers, not the bands. the bands have nothing to do with setting the price of concerts, cds, or even merchandise.

True enough. However, I know money gets to the musicians at some point. I also know that artists (even the really popular ones) don't get paid much at all compared to the ridiculous amounts of money charged for everything. Nevertheless, they do get paid, and the most popular ones get rich.

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and if you want to get paid for playing video game, go and do it. whats stopping you?

I'm not that good at it. Plus, what would I do for fun?

Actually, I like to write, so I'm hoping that I can get paid for doing that some day. Everything I've said applies to writers. It's a different art than music, but if I were writing one type of novel that no one wanted to read, I would have to "sell out" to get readers and make money. I love writing just like musicians love music, but if I could get paid for doing what I love, then I wouldn't mind changing my style to keep getting paid and sharing a message.

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in my experience life is about happiness not how big your paycheck is.

Absolutely. My current job is just a job. It doesn't make me happy, but it is getting me money so that I can (more easily) do other things that make me happy. However, getting paid to be happy is my goal, and I would say it is most people's goal. Wouldn't you?

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ill say it again.....if you want more money INVEST!!! dont just let you money sit in a bank collecting dust, let it work for you.

Good advice, though investing right now ain't so good.

 

[williamgoody]

What about Moby. With "Play" he admitted licensing every song on the album. This doesn't necessarily make him a sellout, But "18" does. To me it sounds totallt "Play2"like. Now this is a guy who was at the time one of the better techno dj's out there back in the day; and when he moved on from that genre he took on a rather edgier sound ("Animal Rights", etc). and then produces IMHO a wonderfull album in "Play", which sold unexpectedly EN MASS. Now you're telling me he's finally settled on a style like this? Two words: SELL OUT!

I totally agree on The Who, as great as they are. How many times have the toured in the last three years? Two? Three? I saw their 25th anniversary tour in Philly....in 1986!

Now while I admire both of these acts for never denying selling out, 'It's still true, Selling out sucks because selling out=compromise.

Somebody asked before "How much is enough?" In this country there is no answer when it comes to cash.

 

[blink180tone]

good reply radrd

you have me almost completely convinced. i guess there is a part of me that doesnt want to believe that musicians make music for the sole purpose of money. for some reason i put them on a pillar becuase they can create a miriad of emotions with juat a few notes or lyrics. but as you compared them to writters, i begin to see your point more clearly. doing someting you love and getting paid for it seems to be the ultimate goal of anyone you talk to.

i would like to know what you would define selling out as. is the moment a kid picks up a guitar and realizes that he can as big as the chili pepers, for example. or is it the point at which a band changes their marketing strategy to hit a wider audience and make more money. or is it none of the above. im curious

and this is way off the topic and probably doesnt belong on a music forum but....as far as investing goes, a bear market is the best time to find those companies that will excell in the long run. also, its a time where you can get good stocks at bargin prices. also do not narrow the concept of investing to only stocks, there are other ways to invest.

 

[blink180tone]

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Originally posted by williamgoody Somebody asked before "How much is enough?" In this country there is no answer when it comes to cash.

the answer is never.

 

[radrd]

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would like to know what you would define selling out as.

I would say that selling out is doing anything for the sake of being paid.

If someone plays music with no audience and is happy making no money, then they haven't sold out. The second a musician (or anyone) changes the way they present themself for the sake of acceptance (and therefore a paycheck), they have sold out.

You might argue that artists like Metallica only sold out when they changed their music style to gain a wider audience. However, unless they were literally "discovered" and put no effort into gaining a record contract, they sold out before any of us even heard them and they were playing for free.

Even choosing which songs were to go on their demo to get their record contract was selling out if you think about it. They chose to present their band in the most favorable light so that they could get paid for doing what they already love to do.

I have no problem with that.

Therefore, I have no problem with them continuing to "sell out" by changing their style to gain wider acceptance. I may not like their new style, but I don't see selling out as evil because that's what it takes to be happy.

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as far as investing goes, a bear market is the best time to find those companies that will excell in the long run

Yeah, that should be true. People should be buying stock like crazy since everything is so low. I do have a (severely depleted) college fund. Now I'm a bit jaded.

 

[blink180tone]

radrd

you have made a very strong case. i especially like the point you made about the demo tapes. i am almost completely convinced.

but this thread has not been a complete waste of time, because we were listing the biggest sell outs. given that all bands sell out, some do more than others just out of greed. i think you would agree with that.v with that said, do you have any suggestions??

 

[radrd]

Going on my belief that everyone who gets paid to do anything is a sellout, I would say that those who stop trying to get paid for doing what they love and just try to get paid more are bigger sellouts.

If an artist were to change from rock, which they played because they loved it, to country, which they hate yet it provides a bigger paycheck, then I would say that that artist is most definitely a bigger sellout than someone like Aerosmith.

Aerosmith may have jumped on the stage with Britney and nStink, and Aerosmith's new album is a bit different, but I think that they are probably still doing what they love. The style is a bit different in hopes of gaining a new/wider audience, but it isn't like they started rapping for a bigger paycheck.

I'd say that it's virtually impossible to find the motives behind style changes.

In my opinion, even if an artist changes their style simply for a paycheck, as long as they still care about their message, they haven't really sold out any more than anyone else who doesn't change thier style, yet receives a paycheck.

So, in closing

, I would agree that some are bigger sell-outs than others, but I doubt very many of us really have the knowledge to determine who they are.

Does David Bowie still love music? Probably. Did he change his style for a paycheck. Yes. Is he a sell-out? Yes. Is it any worse than a band trying to send a message that people will listen to so they can get paid in the first place? I don't think so, but maybe some people do.

 

[Matthew-Spaltro]

EVERY GOD DAMN band sells out. It's called making a living.

 

[Aushadi]

Gee! do musicians really expect to get paid for their work?? How very selfish and inconsiderate of them.
That must mean they sell-out, by Definition.

"Entertain us..."

There are a number of bands/musicians who never sold out and were popular - even if their biggest group of fans was sometimes their fellow musicians.

IMO that number would include: Beatles, Grateful Dead, Byrds, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Paul Butterfield, Roy Buchanan and a bunch of other fine people who play/played music that is probably too good for you to have heard of.

 

[Matthew-Spaltro]

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Originally posted by Aushadi Gee! do musicians really expect to get paid for their work?? How very selfish and inconsiderate of them. That must mean they sell-out, by Definition. "Entertain us..." There are a number of bands/musicians who never sold out and were popular - even if their biggest group of fans was sometimes their fellow musicians. IMO that number would include: Beatles, Grateful Dead, Byrds, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Paul Butterfield, Roy Buchanan and a bunch of other fine people who play/played music that is probably too good for you to have heard of.

Are you talking to me or someone else?