[Dusty Chalk]

Currently staying away from eBay, but when I win the lottery, boy-o's, you all are on your own.

[size=xx-small]Which you would be anywayz.[/size]

 

[meithkiller]

As some of you may remember, I was very active in the ebay classic PCDP scene a couple of years ago. I acquired a collection of 25-30 classic PCDP's, including the D-303, D-555, D-5, D-25, D-10, D-88, and many more. I didn't really keep track of who I was bidding against, at least whether or not they were from Head-Fi, but occasionally I would run up against a fellow Head-Fier that I recognized, and it usually didn't matter to me. If I was bidding on an item I already had one or two of, I'd sometimes back down, but more often than not, since I had more disposable income at the time (than I do now), I'd usually get the item.

It was during this period of time I learned to snipe. I didn't know what it was called at the time, but after awhile, I learned it was the only way to bid. I had countless auctions jerked out from under me at the last second, so since I couldn't beat them, I joined them. Anymore with whatever item I'm bidding on, whether car parts or electronics, I seldom bid until the last minute.

To me a bidding war, whether with a fellow Head-Fi member or a total stranger is total foolishness, benefiting no-one but the seller. I agree with the idea to post your maximum purchase price and then forget it, but I would have to add, wait until the last minute to do so.

The way I look at it, if Head-Fiers want to get together and decide not to run bids up, or not to bid against eachother, that is fine, but someone else is likely to jump in and get it then. I think some communication could be helpful in a few situations, but for the most part, its every person for themselves on ebay, try to be a nice guy, and someone else is likely to jump in and get the item.

-Keith

 

[plainsong]

What I don't understand is the ethic that if you don't have one of these pcdp's (or gear worth thousands more), then forget any credits you have as a musician. In the eyes of head-fi, you know nothing about good sound.

But then - you have people here basically buying up all these pcdp's from the ebay auctions, having two of the same model, or having an entire collection, and bragging about it.

Meanwhile, you can say the rest of us just suck. That we have no ears at all, but there's a handful of you buying them all up. So where's the goodwill? Why not let others enjoy the audio as well? Do you really need a collection of pcdp's? Why not let others have a go?

One of the reasons I don't post here so much anymore. I've only been hanging out here for the past few days because I have some gear for sale. I'm not critizing this sort of thought process. People will be how they will be, and if there are a handful of people that think they just have to have every legendary pcdp on earth, and look down on those who don't. I just don't understand it. I don't think it's right, and I don't fit in with it.

 

[PeterR]

Quote:

Originally posted by plainsong What I don't understand is the ethic that if you don't have one of these pcdp's (or gear worth thousands more), then forget any credits you have as a musician. In the eyes of head-fi, you know nothing about good sound.

Says who?

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But then - you have people here basically buying up all these pcdp's from the ebay auctions,

The ultrare ones aside, there's plenty of good PCDPs floating around on ebay at any time, more than enough for everyone...If you want one, go buy one, no need for whining.

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having two of the same model, or having an entire collection

So I'm not allowed to collect CD players? Since when?

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Meanwhile, you can say the rest of us just suck. That we have no ears at all,

I've never heard anyone say that...

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but there's a handful of you buying them all up.

If you want one, buy one, no one's holding you back.

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So where's the goodwill? Why not let others enjoy the audio as well? Do you really need a collection of pcdp's? Why not let others have a go?

What I need and what I don't is my business.
And who's stopping you from having a go? Head to ebay and make your bids. The whole point of this thread was that some of your fellow headfiers won't even fight you over it...

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One of the reasons I don't post here so much anymore. I've only been hanging out here for the past few days because I have some gear for sale. I'm not critizing this sort of thought process. People will be how they will be, and if there are a handful of people that think they just have to have every legendary pcdp on earth, and look down on those who don't.

Again, when and where has who been looking down on whom?

 

[meithkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by plainsong What I don't understand is the ethic that if you don't have one of these pcdp's (or gear worth thousands more), then forget any credits you have as a musician. In the eyes of head-fi, you know nothing about good sound. But then - you have people here basically buying up all these pcdp's from the ebay auctions, having two of the same model, or having an entire collection, and bragging about it. Meanwhile, you can say the rest of us just suck. That we have no ears at all, but there's a handful of you buying them all up. So where's the goodwill? Why not let others enjoy the audio as well? Do you really need a collection of pcdp's? Why not let others have a go? One of the reasons I don't post here so much anymore. I've only been hanging out here for the past few days because I have some gear for sale. I'm not critizing this sort of thought process. People will be how they will be, and if there are a handful of people that think they just have to have every legendary pcdp on earth, and look down on those who don't. I just don't understand it. I don't think it's right, and I don't fit in with it.

I'll freely admit that back when I had my large collection of classic PCDP's, as well as about 8 or 10 mid-to-high end headphones and amps, my ears were still sub-par due to hearing loss and tinnitis. No golden ears here.

The way I usually begin a new hobby (or become serious about an old hobby), is to buy a decently large selection of whatever it is I'm collecting or interested in, determine which ones are "keepers", and sell the rest. That is essentially what I did with my PCDP collection. A lot of people here on Head-Fi own headphones, amps, or PCDP's that once belonged to me. I kept several PCDP's, and regret getting rid of my D-303's, but the money was worth more to me than the improvement they offered over my D-25S.

I currently have over a dozen flashlights sitting on a shelf next to my desk that are worth about $1500. When I determine which ones get used the most often, and which ones are gathering dust, I'll probably sell about half of them.

I can only listen to one PCDP or set of headphones at a time. While collecting old PCDP's was a neat hobby for awhile, I'm quite happy with the half dozen or so PCDP's (some classic, some newer) that I have and listen to now.

-Keith

 

[plainsong]

Yes, I supposed my arguement would make no sense to those who feel the need to bleed the old pcdp market dry by buying them all up. - Driving up prices, sniping sales away, forcing other headfiers to beg in PMs to please let them have a chance.

It's not right. Why do you feel the need to have every old Sony pcdp ever made? What does this accomplish? In the end you could have spent that money on one hell of an audio source.

I know the majority of Headfiers probably see nothing wrong with it. I said my piece, the majority rules and that's the end of it. But it's you yourselves driving the prices up and making the bidding fierce.

 

[PeterR]

Quote:

Originally posted by plainsong Yes, I supposed my arguement would make no sense to those who feel the need to bleed the old pcdp market dry by buying them all up.

You really think we can do that? Wow.

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- Driving up prices, sniping sales away, forcing other headfiers to beg in PMs to please let them have a chance.

Yeah, right.

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It's not right. Why do you feel the need to have every old Sony pcdp ever made? What does this accomplish?

Because I'm curious? Because I want to learn more about them? Because I like the technology? Because it's fun? Inferiority complex? Megalomania? I'm crazy? I'm evil? Pick one, in the end it doesn't matter.

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In the end you could have spent that money on one hell of an audio source.

My sources are fine, thank you. And when I look at what I've spent so far on PCDPs, it isn't really that much. Few hundred Dollars maybe. Could've spent multiples of that on a piece of wire...

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I know the majority of Headfiers probably see nothing wrong with it. I said my piece, the majority rules and that's the end of it.

It's just that I don't quite understand your anger. Were you actually looking to buy something and a horde of mischievous PCDP fanatics didn't allow you? Or do you just feel like bitching in general?

 

[plainsong]

I'm not bitching, I'm not even angry - if anything you're having a go at me because I stated the obvious. Like I said, if the majority of you see nothing wrong with it, then it's your right to feel how you feel and do what you do. I'm just saying I don't agree, that's all. You don't have to get defensive and go to war over your audio sources. It's insane to bleed the market dry of something that you already have while others could be enjoying the sound as well, but if you're blind to it then you're blind to it. Going to beat up on me some more?

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by plainsong What I don't understand is the ethic that if you don't have one of these pcdp's (or gear worth thousands more), then forget any credits you have as a musician. In the eyes of head-fi, you know nothing about good sound. But then - you have people here basically buying up all these pcdp's from the ebay auctions, having two of the same model, or having an entire collection, and bragging about it. Meanwhile, you can say the rest of us just suck. That we have no ears at all, but there's a handful of you buying them all up. So where's the goodwill? Why not let others enjoy the audio as well? Do you really need a collection of pcdp's? Why not let others have a go? One of the reasons I don't post here so much anymore. I've only been hanging out here for the past few days because I have some gear for sale. I'm not critizing this sort of thought process. People will be how they will be, and if there are a handful of people that think they just have to have every legendary pcdp on earth, and look down on those who don't. I just don't understand it. I don't think it's right, and I don't fit in with it.

I tend to buy a lot of something that interests me (see meithkiller's post). I keep what I like, which can sometimes be a lot. I determine what I'm willing to pay in an auction, and bid it. Sorry if you've got a problem with that. If someone wants an auction item that I do, and is not willing to pay as much as I am, they're not going to get it. Welcome to the real world. My winning an auction means that I was willing to pay more than the other bidders. It does not mean that I have any greater status, or more acute hearing. It does mean I have larger credit card bills to pay.

I didn't hear any complaints from the people I sold a D-555, a D-777, and an Optimus CD3400 among others to, particularly since I sold them below going market value. I guess that's my way of treating people badly and looking down my nose at them.

My still having a Denon DCP-150 and a D-303 does not reflect on you in any way. It does not make me better than you, nor does it reflect on your ability to make judgements about audio equipment. In fact, it has nothing to do with you at all. If you think that in some way it says "you suck", that's your issue. But don't try and lay it on anybody else.

 

[plainsong]

It's not welcome to the real world - you're setting artificial prices - it's welcome to Headfi.

Yeah, I figured I'd get beat up for it. Hey, I tried to fight the good fight. I lost. Majority rules.

 

[Gojira]

I'm not bitching, I'm not even angry - if anything you're having a go at me because I stated the obvious.

But it's not obvious at all. You are assuming that the prices are primarily driven up by people who already have the same player they are bidding on. This assumption is unwarranted. Do you know all the bidders in these auctions personally? The one who already owns the player is seldom willing to bid high enough to win against those who don't. From a seller's perspective, the one who pays the most is the one who deserves the player. Period. That's what fair is.

I don't care how many players the person I'm bidding against has. If he's willing to bid higher than me, he deserves to win. What right does anyone else have to claim they are somehow entitled to the player for less? IMO, begging competitors to let you win is just pathetic. It's a CD player for god sake, not some kind of life saving drug. If you really want one all you have to do is bid to win. You don't even have to snipe.

You know, if you are going to make those kinds of statements you could at least give some specific examples to back them up.

 

[Rizumu]

Artificial prices? This is all used and discontinued gear. It's worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. If you have the money and desire to start a collection of old discmen or just get one or whatever, you can. No one is holding you back. Really, if I wanted a D-303 I would be watching ebay and Head-Fi, post a WTB ad, and probably get one for ~$150. My D-33 is serving its purpose however and is a great player for the money you can pick it up for (< $30) and I'd rather spend the money on other components of my system.

If you want the best of the best however (D-515, D-311, D-555, D-777, D-E905, etc.) you have to be willing to shell out quite a lot. These are rather rare, in demand, and sold for a lot originally as well. And some of the highest "collectors" that snatch up these players on ebay aren't even Head-Fi members. I think the prices can get rather ridiculous but I don't think anyone owes me anything to have mercy or pity on me.

 

[plainsong]

I don't feel I'm owed anything, but I think if you search headfi you'll find complaints about prices at ebay and such, but it's you yourselves driving the prices and demand up.

It's like trying to reason with addicts.

 

[Rizumu]

Quote:

Originally posted by plainsong I don't feel I'm owed anything, but I think if you search headfi you'll find complaints about prices at ebay and such, but it's you yourselves driving the prices and demand up. It's like trying to reason with addicts.

Actually it's those damn reviews. D-311's never hit those sort of prices before Duncan's review

Maybe if a lot of people write scathing reviews of some rare PCDPs prices will go down. Hmm...it's probably too late, the damage has been done

Everyone thinks they're the best thing since sliced pineapple.

 

[EyeAmEye]

Quote:

Originally posted by plainsong Yes, I supposed my arguement would make no sense to those who feel the need to bleed the old pcdp market dry by buying them all up.

Plainsong,
There are MANY (regardless of popular opinion) old PCDP's out there to be had for next to nothing, which are as good or even better than the "classics". I believe Duncan himself, whose great review led me to start collecting (DAMN YOU!!!

), admitted to almost exclusively owning Sony PCDP's, give or take a few. Having heard a few of Sony's alleged "classics", I can honestly say that some old Panasonics, Aiwas and Kenwoods, of course in my opinion, are even to or better than the Sonys. Naturally, just like the Sony's, different models vary in quality. I've scored 3 pre-94 Aiwa's, 7 Panasonics, and 2 Kenwoods for under $200 total, and I'd put some of them (not all), up there with the Sony "classics". Heck, I even say the Aiwa XP-55 is the best I've heard so far.
Hell, if I had Duncan's rep on these boards, Aiwa and Panasonic PCDP's would be sky-high.