[ronrad]

Hi,
 
I just picked up a set of AD2000, which I like the sound on, although not quite as blown away as I'd hoped, and I haven't made them as comfortable as I'd like yet.  I'm looking for an all round set for lots of genres, typically jazz, electronica, guitar oriented.  At any rate, the T1 sounds really interesting, so I'd really like to try a pair if someone in the Seattle / Eastside area has a set and would be willing to let me have a listen.  Also, I'm looking for comparison feedback between the AD2000 and the T1 as I haven't seen much of a comparo there.
 
 

 

[hebrewbacon]

I haven't had the extensive experience of others here, but I recently got to compare the AD2000 to the T1, and I came away liking the AD2000's a bit more. There's something about the tremendous detail, clarity, and soundstage that I didn't think the T1's could match. I feel like the bass on the AD2000's is a bit anemic though, but based on your taste that shouldn't be much of a problem; while lacking impact it's very precise. Overall I think the AD2000's are going to be more analytical, though I found both quite fun to listen to!

 

[ronrad]

Thanks for the feedback! As usual I got impatient and found a pair of t1s in the for sale area. So i guess I will get to make my own compare shortly! It seems like the ADs definitely have their followers and I do like the sound in them quite a bit. It's unfortunate that I haven't managed to get them comfortable yet though

As to the bass, I originally didn't think I cared much for bass and tended to build my systems around the mids however with my closed esw10s I'm starting to appreciate the bass a little more.

 

[Asr]

My opinion of the AD2K vs T1 is included in this past review that I wrote (scroll down, as it's near the end): http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/511201/review-beyerdynamic-t1-vs-sennheiser-hd800
 
The 9-page notes file linked at the top of the review goes into specific detail of the AD2K vs T1. (There isn't a single AD2K vs T1 section though, the comments are interspersed throughout the file.)
 
In contrast to the above post, "tremendous detail," "clarity," and "soundstage" are words that I would never use to describe the AD2K, and neither are "lacking impact," "very precise," or "analytical". Not that I mean to denigrate the opinion of the person who posted above, but I've owned the AD2K for over 4 years (coming up on 5 years now), and it's developed into my #1 favorite headphone, and none of those words or descriptors are why I routinely go back to it. It's become my preferred headphone for bassy electronica/trip-hop, metal, heavy/hard rock, & alt/indie music, but I'd say I enjoy it most with breakbeat electronica and death, power, prog, & thrash metal. Specific electronica artists I enjoy the most on it are The Crystal Method, The Prodigy, Fluke, Leftfield, etc. I really tried to like the T1 for these artists but just couldn't, it totally lacked the unexplainable x-factor.
 
On an amplification note, the AD2K and T1 have completely polarizing electrical requirements. In other words, almost any amp optimal for the T1 won't work equally well for the AD2K. T1 demands high voltage, while the AD2K demands high current, and very few amps can supply both, especially at the headphones' impedance loads (600 Ohms and 40 Ohms, respectively).

 

[Marshal Banana]

I own both, the AD2000 for more than a year and the T1 for half a year.
The AD2000 are very dry and fast, warm mids forwards, they have great bass but there is not a lot. The soundstage is pretty small which could be great for small musical formations. The treble are some kind of splashy. I think for the price they are just the best thing out there.
I think the T1 are better cans in every way, more details, smoother, more weight in the bass department and more controle and texture, more 3d effect, bigger soundstage, better tonal balance etc...While I prefer the T1 overall, there is something about the AD2000, the factor X as said in the previous post and I can't let them going away. AD2000 are very unique and fun cans. My girlfriend prefer them to all my other cans I own or owned (which include DX1000, D5000, RS1).

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

I haven't had the extensive experience of others here, but I recently got to compare the AD2000 to the T1, and I came away liking the AD2000's a bit more. There's something about the tremendous detail, clarity, and soundstage that I didn't think the T1's could match. I feel like the bass on the AD2000's is a bit anemic though, but based on your taste that shouldn't be much of a problem; while lacking impact it's very precise. Overall I think the AD2000's are going to be more analytical, though I found both quite fun to listen to!

 
Sure sounds like the AD2000's I've had for several years now... except... my pair also has great bass - fast and tight with great impact and texture. 
 
Of course, mine are well burnt in, with the "Phat Pad" mod, an upgraded phone plug, and a great matching setup.  With these tweaks, they sound very much like the Stax phones with superb resolution and clarity.  These tweaks also help the AD2000's upper mids and highs to sound more natural and less splashy, or honky, and they greatly improve the soundstage and imaging. 
 
I suspect those who think their bass is "a bit anemic" are comparing them to phones, which have a "mid-bass / lower-mids hump" that makes the bass / mids sound a bit thicker / heavier (more like the HD650's, etc.).  The AD2000's bass is a bit "cleaner," and sharper than the bass on those types of phones.
 
They're great with all types of music - but, especially jazz, and acoustical music.        
 
 

 

[Waqar]

I dont know if this helps? but you can read about the T1 in this thread.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/508836/the-official-beyerdynamic-t1-owner-s-club-appreciation-discussion-thread

 

[ronrad]

Yup, read most of that thread and several others.   Unfortunately, there was little direct comparison to anything that I own / have heard, and the comparisons against the AD2k seem to be mixed.  Seems to be most people universally agree that the T1 is more comfortable, and is a technically better headphone.  The comparison between people that would choose to listen to AD2K over T1 however seems less clear cut.   Some seem to prefer the AD2k and a number prefer the T1.  At any rate, based on the listed comfort factor and the other merits of the T1 I figured it was worth just shelling out on the For Sale Forum and giving it a try myself.
 
I had a chance to do a long session with my AD2ks last night.  I really do like the sound, although interesting enough, I've noticed they are a lot more sensitive to source quality than my ESW10s.   I tend to listen to Pandora One a lot, and I played around last night with going with some of my higher end CD redbook playback and even comparing against Linn 320k streaming I noticed a very large difference.  The cans still sound decent with the Pandora One, but going back to Pandora One from the higher quality sources is a noticeable "ugh" moment.  Basically way less clarity, muddier sound etc. 
 
 

 

[Ikarios]

I've always been of the opinion that the DT880/600 is a baby version of the T1. I've never been able to do a direct comparison, but when I spent time with the T1, it instantly reminded me of the DT880 I owned for a couple weeks - same great, tight detailed bass, the same clinical and relatively pulled back mids, and the same super-detailed but just-a-little-bit-too-forward treble. The T1 soundstage is great but doesn't compare to something like the HD800 IMO. However, it is supremely comfortable, thanks to the recessed earcups compared to the DT880 (where the foam of the cups would touch my ears because the pads were too shallow). In all I think the T1 is a technically amazing headphone, although the frequency balance was not for me, and were also somewhat boring in comparison. The AD2000 has a Grado-like fun factor that you'll be hard-pressed to find in another full-size headphone that isn't Grado.

 

[ronrad]

My T1s showed up last Thursday and I've been back to back comparing the two for a while.  
 
So far, I've found a few interesting bits.  The very first time I tried the T1s I thought they sounded muffled and cloudy, and I've found that I actually need to have my volume up a bit more with them than the AD2000s.  It's a bit of a strange thing, basically, the sound pressure difference between the two is not huge.  Overall, the T1 is slightly quieter at a given a/b  comparison, but very minor.  However, if I keep the volume down, the T1s sound a little flat.
 
Turn the volume up however, and they come into their own.  There is no question that the ADs are brighter, and a little more involving perhaps.   (although this seems to be a bit of a wash when I turn up the t1s)    The T1s also are more sensitive to the source quality.  
 
The T1s are more comfortable and definitely seem to be more accurate / controlled.   My addition of the cut in half 3/8" tubing seem to have brought the AD2ks into the realm comfort wise, although the T1s seem to be slightly less fatiguing for longer term listening.  All in all I keep oscillating between them, although after about 10 hrs of listening, the T1s are growing on me and leaning into the lead right now. 

 

[Amarphael]

Considering the vastly different amplification needs iguess the T1 are underamped from you parasound amp... 8ohms for a recommended load is a bit too much.

 

[Ra97oR]

AD2000 is a great phone, I found myself using them over the W5000 for rock, electronica and generally faster music. While I did spend sometime with the T1, the T1 doesn't really gives me the excitement that the AD2000 gives, but are easier on the ears as AD2000 with bad recordings is a pain to listen to, but with warmer presentation, the T1 can smooth it out, but still not something that you should feed with poor recordings.

 

[ronrad]

Quote:

Considering the vastly different amplification needs iguess the T1 are underamped from you parasound amp... 8ohms for a recommended load is a bit too much.

I certainly am open to that being a possibility.  My thoughts with this setup were to see what sound I'd get out of this amp with higher quality headphones and then eventually try to find a truly dedicated headphone amp to compare.  Given that the Parsound was originally a $1500 component and I bought it new for my floor system way back when, I figured I'd see how far I could go with it in my headphone setup.  That's why I was asking if other people had noticed the low volume issue.  However, the specs for the Parasound are pretty much deficient in useful information for me to draw conclusions straight from that, although I'd love to get clarification from someone with more experience.  The only spec I see on the amp for Headphone impedance is "recommended headphone >= 8ohm"  Other than that they specify it is a high current dedicated headphone amp.   Is it typical for the dedicated higher end headphone amps to require a higher minimum impedance on the headphones?  My thought would be the issue would mostly be in being able to generate sufficient voltage swing, and unfortunately, I don't see any information in the specs relating to that.
 
Unfortunately, I don't have anything else that I can test them with at this point.   Need to get to a meet to see I guess.  For what it's worth, the amp seems to have sufficient power to produce extremely high listening volumes easily on the phones.   (Ie I find it uncomfortably loud at much above 10pm on the listening dial and it goes all the way around to 6pm.)  Is the inability to drive them well at low listening volumes a definite sign of insufficient amping ability, or are you basing your comment off of the 8ohm spec listing vs the 600 ohm listing for the phones themselves?
 

 

[ronrad]

Quote:

AD2000 is a great phone, I found myself using them over the W5000 for rock, electronica and generally faster music. While I did spend sometime with the T1, the T1 doesn't really gives me the excitement that the AD2000 gives, but are easier on the ears as AD2000 with bad recordings is a pain to listen to, but with warmer presentation, the T1 can smooth it out, but still not something that you should feed with poor recordings.

So far in general I find that the AD2k is a little more involving for me and the T1 is a little better controlled.   The W5000 is another phone that I've been interested in, but haven't heard yet.  My deal with recordings is that I tend to listen a lot while I'm working, which means I like to set it on a genre and forget about it.   As a result Pandora One does a nice job giving me varieties of music.  However, the quality diff vs 320k / flac / cd is definitely noticeable on all of these phones. 

 

[Amarphael]

 
Quote:

Unfortunately, I don't have anything else that I can test them with at this point.   Need to get to a meet to see I guess.  For what it's worth, the amp seems to have sufficient power to produce extremely high listening volumes easily on the phones.   (Ie I find it uncomfortably loud at much above 10pm on the listening dial and it goes all the way around to 6pm.)  Is the inability to drive them well at low listening volumes a definite sign of insufficient amping ability, or are you basing your comment off of the 8ohm spec listing vs the 600 ohm listing for the phones themselves?
 

a headphone amp's impedance should be as close to 0 ohms as possible, That's the ideal FWIR. An amp's power output can be current tilted or voltage tilted, depending on it's design. Seems that your amp, specfically the headphone amp section, is a current based creature. Sure, it can drive the T1 loud but if they sound lean, even distorted at times, it's beacuse the voltage swing isn't high enough for them. About the 8 ohm spec, It's pretty odd number for a headphone's impedance, Perhaps it means the amp's own output impefance... Hard to tell.