Beyerdynamic to launch new top headphone at IFA -- called T1
Mar 13, 2010 at 8:51 PM Post #2,416 of 3,971

MacedonianHero

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif
no... that's completely false. 1 dB is a logarithmic measure of sound pressure. In my experience, most people won't consciously notice a change in volume unless you increase by 3-5 dB. if you use foobar, try it using their built in double blind tester (make an EQ with +3 db in all frequencies)

However, that same 5 dB or so is actually increasing the loudness of your music by close to a factor of 2. It will absolutely affect your subjective impressions of sound quality whether you consciously notice the volume increase or not.



That's correct, but it was chosen because it was the smallest audible difference to the human ear (actually closer to 0dB). Sorry dude, Alexander Graham Bell was such a famous Canadian that we all had to study his accomplishments when in school (all so many years ago).

smallest audible difference to human ear - Google Search

and

Glossary: Decibel

and

Hearing - Biology Encyclopedia - cells, body, human, process, system, different, life, structure

and

Bel (Acustics) definition of Bel (Acustics) in the Free Online Encyclopedia.

Peace
beerchug.gif
 
Mar 13, 2010 at 9:12 PM Post #2,417 of 3,971

jawang

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That's correct, but it was chosen because it was the smallest audible difference to the human ear (actually closer to 0dB). Sorry dude, Alexander Graham Bell was such a famous Canadian that we all had to study his accomplishments when in school (all so many years ago).

smallest audible difference to human ear - Google Search

and

Glossary: Decibel

and

Hearing - Biology Encyclopedia - cells, body, human, process, system, different, life, structure

and

Bel (Acustics) definition of Bel (Acustics) in the Free Online Encyclopedia.

Peace
beerchug.gif



No, you are still misunderstanding. 0 dB is defined as an arbitrary value of sound pressure that was determined to be the essentially inaudible (or very very barely audible).

An increase of 1 dB (which is what you and I are talking about here) will increase the actual loudness by a logarithmic factor. At normal listening levels, 10 dB corresponds to approximately 3 times louder sound.

Being able to perceive a sound over silence, is VERY different from being able to perceive a difference in volume at normal listening levels. It is very easy to tell the difference between 0dB and 5dB (you'll most likely hear no sound in one case, and a faint sound in the other). It is comparatively much more difficult to perceive a difference in volume from 90dB to 95dB. however, the physical sound pressure will still increase by the same factor, and can give the impression of better detail/impact/etc.,
 
Mar 13, 2010 at 9:20 PM Post #2,418 of 3,971

xnor

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To be precise, you guys are talking about dB SPL...
 
Mar 13, 2010 at 9:27 PM Post #2,419 of 3,971

jawang

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Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif
To be precise, you guys are talking about dB SPL...


that's true, although these days I think by convention dB refers to sound pressure (i.e. my physics textbooks don't specify sound pressure when using decibels as a unit)
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 12:11 AM Post #2,420 of 3,971

MacedonianHero

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif
that's true, although these days I think by convention dB refers to sound pressure (i.e. my physics textbooks don't specify sound pressure when using decibels as a unit)


I think we are both saying the same thing. I fully understand log functions (I'm an engineer
wink.gif
). All I was saying that just under 1dB was selected arbitrarily as it was just the beginning of human audible range and then the pressure it had was assigned accordingly (just giving the history behind it's selection). I was not talking about +1dB above values higher than 1dB to clarify.

The same could be said for 0'C...arbitrarily set for the freezing point of water and 100'C for the boiling point (at 1 atm of course). Although this is linear scaling, the major points were arbitrarily chosen around the freezing and boiling points of water and 0-1db (absolute) was selected because it was the starting point of the human audible experience.
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 12:32 AM Post #2,421 of 3,971

XLR1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That's correct, but it was chosen because it was the smallest audible difference to the human ear (actually closer to 0dB). Sorry dude, Alexander Graham Bell was such a famous Canadian that we all had to study his accomplishments when in school (all so many years ago).

smallest audible difference to human ear - Google Search

and

Glossary: Decibel

and

Hearing - Biology Encyclopedia - cells, body, human, process, system, different, life, structure

and

Bel (Acustics) definition of Bel (Acustics) in the Free Online Encyclopedia.

Peace
beerchug.gif




I am shocked by your statement.................





Alexander was a Canadian? I am disillusioned. Oh well, at least he was a North American.
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 12:34 AM Post #2,422 of 3,971

arnaud

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think we are both saying the same thing. I fully understand log functions (I'm an engineer
wink.gif
). All I was saying that just under 1dB was selected arbitrarily as it was just the beginning of human audible range and then the pressure it had was assigned accordingly.

The same could be said for 0'C...arbitrarily set for the freezing point of water and 100'C for the boiling point (at 1 atm of course). Although this is linear scaling, the major points were arbitrarily chosen around the freezing and boiling points of water and 0-1db (absolute) was selected because it was the starting point of the human audible experience.



I would not dig any further... He is correct and you are very confused. For an engineer, that's scary! What is your field? I hope it's not in acoustics
wink.gif
.

There's a difference between threshold of hearing and ability to detect change in loudness...
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 12:54 AM Post #2,423 of 3,971

MacedonianHero

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Quote:

Originally Posted by arnaud /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I would not dig any further... He is correct and you are very confused. For an engineer, that's scary! What is your field? I hope it's not in acoustics
wink.gif
.

There's a difference between threshold of hearing and ability to detect change in loudness...



What is your problem? All I was saying was that the pressure found at about 1db (absolute) was chosen because of that's where the human audible range begins. That all. Lighten up.

BTW, I am a chemical engineer and all I was relating that I fully understood a log function as such.
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 1:01 AM Post #2,424 of 3,971

MacedonianHero

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Quote:

Originally Posted by XLR1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I am shocked by your statement.................





Alexander was a Canadian? I am disillusioned. Oh well, at least he was a North American.



Not just a Canadian, he was voted among the top 10 Canadians of all time in a recent poll:

CBC.ca - The Greatest Canadian - Top Ten Greatest Canadians

beerchug.gif


Although the Scots also do have a claim on him as Scotland was the land of his birth.
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 1:17 AM Post #2,426 of 3,971

MacedonianHero

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I heard the T1 today and liked it. Appears to be excellent build quality, too.


I love the sturdy feel they have and at the same time are pretty light on the head!

BTW: I still dig your avatar! (SCTV rules)
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 1:21 AM Post #2,427 of 3,971

arnaud

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif
What is your problem? All I was saying was that the pressure found at about 1db (absolute) was chosen because of that's where the human audible range begins. That all. Lighten up.

BTW, I am a chemical engineer and all I was relating that I fully understood a log function as such.



Sorry, I did not mean to offend you. At first, I was not gonna reply to this. Then, you posted again AND you mentioned you were an engineer! Well, I would have thought even a chemical engineer would know this.

Now, to reply to your agressive PM: yes, English isn't my mother tongue but I think I can presume to know a little bit about acoustics given my work and engineering background. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but you have clearly expressed confusion between 1dB change ....

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif
1dB by definition is the smallest audible change in volume that the human ear can detect. FWIW
beerchug.gif



... and 0dB threshold of hearing:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That's correct, but it was chosen because it was the smallest audible difference to the human ear (actually closer to 0dB). Sorry dude, Alexander Graham Bell was such a famous Canadian that we all had to study his accomplishments when in school (all so many years ago).


I have posted here because you're adding to confusion and spreading wrong information (people can perceive change of less than 1dB). You're trying to cover up while I would hope you'd learn from the informative and accurate posts that jawang made rather than calling him a "dude"...

Other than that, I am totally cool with this. Stay ignorant if you wish, it's bliss some say
wink.gif
.

Arnaud.
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 1:22 AM Post #2,428 of 3,971

The Monkey

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I love the sturdy feel they have and at the same time are pretty light on the head!

BTW: I still dig your avatar! (SCTV rules)




Good point, they are surprisingly light. I also found them more comfortable than the HD800, but I did not wear them for very long, so it might not be a fair comparison.
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 1:28 AM Post #2,429 of 3,971

MacedonianHero

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Quote:

Originally Posted by arnaud /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Sorry, I did not mean to offend you. At first, I was not gonna reply to this. Then, you posted again AND you mentioned you were an engineer! Well, I would have thought even a chemical engineer would know this.

Now, to reply to your agressive PM: yes, English isn't my mother tongue but I think I can presume to know a little bit about acoustics given my work and engineering background. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but you have clearly expressed confusion between 1dB change ....



... and 0dB threshold of hearing:



I have posted here because you're adding to confusion and spreading wrong information (people can perceive change of less than 1dB). You're trying to cover up while I would hope you'd learn from the informative and accurate posts that jawang made rather than calling him a "dude"...

Other than that, I am totally cool with this. Stay ignorant if you wish, it's bliss some say
wink.gif
.

Arnaud.



Nothing wrong with calling someone a dude. I call my best friends "dude". Figure of speech, nothing more.

To clarify , my comment was 1dB audible change from 0dB to 1dB ABSOLUTE.
biggrin.gif
Going from 80dB to 81dB is entirely a different thing. No cover ups here, just read the links that I posted. State the same thing. I was simply pointing out the history behind the reasoning of selecting the 0/1 dB to start with. Although the context of the conversation not about this and this is were I think the confusion came from. I just like giving historical perspectives, like my comments on the great Alexander Graham Bell
smily_headphones1.gif
.
 
Mar 14, 2010 at 1:29 AM Post #2,430 of 3,971

MacedonianHero

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Good point, they are surprisingly light. I also found them more comfortable than the HD800, but I did not wear them for very long, so it might not be a fair comparison.


Skylab finds them more comfortable as well. But with my melon, the HD800 works better.
 

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