Duckman
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Well - the CTH is very compact and easy to carry around. But does it drive the T1s well?
Beyerdynamic to launch new top headphone at IFA -- called T1
- Thread starter jherbert
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Parafeed
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Quote:
Yes. Both channels shield wires and signal returns (white wire) are connected to the plug body of the fitted Neutrik 1/4" plug.
Quote:
Exactly - in a balanced config, green is L+ (pin 2), white is L- (pin 3), shield is ground (pin 1). Right hand channel, red is R+ (pin 2), white is R- (pin 3), shield is ground (pin 1).
| Originally Posted by Helmore /img/forum/go_quote.gif Has it even been confirmed that this ground wire is actually connected to the headphone plug of the T1? |
Yes. Both channels shield wires and signal returns (white wire) are connected to the plug body of the fitted Neutrik 1/4" plug.
Quote:
| Originally Posted by Helmore /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess they connected the shielding of the cable to that 3rd cable and you should thus connect it to chassis ground (shield cable) on a pair 3-pin XLR plugs. It would pretty much make the entire signal path, from amp to headphone shielded. |
Exactly - in a balanced config, green is L+ (pin 2), white is L- (pin 3), shield is ground (pin 1). Right hand channel, red is R+ (pin 2), white is R- (pin 3), shield is ground (pin 1).
jyle_t
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Oops, yea you're right, should L+, L- or R+, R-.
| Originally Posted by musicman59 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think it will have a left and right going to the same driver. Red should be the positive and whit the negative for that channel. The black I guess could be physical ground but where does it go at the plug side since there it just have tip, ring and sleeve (left,right and common ground). |
Oops, yea you're right, should L+, L- or R+, R-.
Quote:
Thanks Parafeed.
Do you know of any balanced headphone amplifier that is actually using the pin 1 for ground? I all I have seen about makeing balanced headphones cables talk about leaving the pin 1 of the male connector open. If I connect the shield of the cable to the male pin 1 but the female pin 1 in the amplifier is not connected to anything what good will it does?
| Originally Posted by Parafeed /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes. Both channels shield wires and signal returns (white wire) are connected to the plug body of the fitted Neutrik 1/4" plug. Exactly - in a balanced config, green is L+ (pin 2), white is L- (pin 3), shield is ground (pin 1). Right hand channel, red is R+ (pin 2), white is R- (pin 3), shield is ground (pin 1). |
Thanks Parafeed.
Do you know of any balanced headphone amplifier that is actually using the pin 1 for ground? I all I have seen about makeing balanced headphones cables talk about leaving the pin 1 of the male connector open. If I connect the shield of the cable to the male pin 1 but the female pin 1 in the amplifier is not connected to anything what good will it does?
Helmore
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Quote:
If you do it right you could have a signal that's completely shielded, from DAC to amp and then to headphones. You would connect the female pin 1 the casing of the amp and you would do the same in the DAC. That's only if you want that shielding though, because shielding itself changes the capacitance of the cable but it will prevent external influences from affecting the signal.
Nice post count BTW
.
| Originally Posted by musicman59 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Parafeed. Do you know of any balanced headphone amplifier that is actually using the pin 1 for ground? I all I have seen about makeing balanced headphones cables talk about leaving the pin 1 of the male connector open. If I connect the shield of the cable to the male pin 1 but the female pin 1 in the amplifier is not connected to anything what good will it does? |
If you do it right you could have a signal that's completely shielded, from DAC to amp and then to headphones. You would connect the female pin 1 the casing of the amp and you would do the same in the DAC. That's only if you want that shielding though, because shielding itself changes the capacitance of the cable but it will prevent external influences from affecting the signal.
Nice post count BTW
Parafeed
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Quote:
I'm the wrong person to ask. All of my balanced output amps are DIY'd, so I can't really answer the question as to what commercial amps do or do not do with pin 1.
Quote:
Well, none. In a true balanced output, differential drive where the signal '-' is not directly grounded, you'd expect pin 1 on the chassis side to actually be connected to signal earth. Depending on your amp, if the signal '-' is tied to ground internally then it would make sense to connect both the white wire and shield to pin 3 of the plug if you re-terminate your T1's and know that pin 1 is not connected on the chassis side. Or connect the shield to the plug body, rather than pin 1. 2 mins with a multimeter and your particular amp would probably figure out what would be best to do.
As I said, I'm not really the right person to ask. What I do from a DIY perspective is not necessarily what you'd find in a commercial design and I typically use 4 pin XLR's rather than a pair of 3's, so the two shield wires would be soldered to the plug body, which is connected to signal ground on the chassis side, regardless of whether the L/R '-' are floating or not.
| Originally Posted by musicman59 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you know of any balanced headphone amplifier that is actually using the pin 1 for ground? |
I'm the wrong person to ask. All of my balanced output amps are DIY'd, so I can't really answer the question as to what commercial amps do or do not do with pin 1.
Quote:
| Originally Posted by musicman59 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If I connect the shield of the cable to the male pin 1 but the female pin 1 in the amplifier is not connected to anything what good will it does? |
Well, none. In a true balanced output, differential drive where the signal '-' is not directly grounded, you'd expect pin 1 on the chassis side to actually be connected to signal earth. Depending on your amp, if the signal '-' is tied to ground internally then it would make sense to connect both the white wire and shield to pin 3 of the plug if you re-terminate your T1's and know that pin 1 is not connected on the chassis side. Or connect the shield to the plug body, rather than pin 1. 2 mins with a multimeter and your particular amp would probably figure out what would be best to do.
wakeride74
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So how would some of the smaller less expensive tube amps such as the Trends PA-10 or or MiniWatt perform with these? EF5 maybe? Something like that would be pretty easy for me to bring to work and home again if I wanted to.
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Looks like the phones are starting to trickle into the US. I am getting a small batch shipped to me tomorrow. It would seem US was low man on the totem pole for these
Quote:
The Canadian Distributor got theirs on January 3rd. Granted it was for only 4 headphones and I was lucky enough to be their first customer.
I'm glad that we Canadians finally got something first
! We usually have to wait for seconds after you guys.
| Originally Posted by drubrew /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looks like the phones are starting to trickle into the US. I am getting a small batch shipped to me tomorrow. It would seem US was low man on the totem pole for these
|
The Canadian Distributor got theirs on January 3rd. Granted it was for only 4 headphones and I was lucky enough to be their first customer.
I'm glad that we Canadians finally got something first
wakeride74
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I don't want to hear it... I'm constantly importing bluray steelbooks that are Futureshop exclusives.
| Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Canadian Distributor got theirs on January 3rd. Granted it was for only 4 headphones and I was lucky enough to be their first customer. I'm glad that we Canadians finally got something first
|
I don't want to hear it... I'm constantly importing bluray steelbooks that are Futureshop exclusives.
Quote:
I forgot about that one. They are pretty cool.
Did you realize that Bestbuy actually owns Futureshop? I wonder why they don't carry the blu ray steelbooks?
| Originally Posted by wakeride74 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't want to hear it... I'm constantly importing bluray steelbooks that are Futureshop exclusives. |
I forgot about that one. They are pretty cool.
Did you realize that Bestbuy actually owns Futureshop? I wonder why they don't carry the blu ray steelbooks?
neptius
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MacedonianHero (#1586) – I like tube amps too. Here are perfectly sounding solid amps which can perfectly support high impedance headphones or with high sensitivity. Please try the amps like Casea Lyra, ZAMA HPA-1 or Rudistor RPX-300 or RP 010B. You will see how excellently are sounding solid amps.
wakeride74 (#1585) - Aha, you solve the same problem as I ...
I need transport audio devices between faculty, home, studio, support centre and naturally, for headphones like T1 or HD 800, the amp is important. I have made compromise with Bechmark DAC PRE or, sometimes I borrow friend’s Lehmann Linear.
Bluetick (#1573) – The vocals are for T1 excellent. I think, you will be very satisfied, as Skylab has said.
Wmcmanus (#1568) – Yes, I agree. The scientific details are more for scientific forum or threads, because there is calculated that readers has current relevant info or they can obtain there serious one. But the coin has always two parts. The T1 are very specific in many aspects and when you want say something serious about connection of T1 with serious amps or other devices, there you need say some words about „headphone-cable“ to T1 and how to do it effectively. When serious readers about T1 not found special information about the fact that T1 has „variable“ impedance and they requests specific low capacitances for their amp, then the amp (solid and tube) can harder „post“ the signal to headphones. This is the aspect which does things more complicated, to obtain the supreme performance from T1 from your audio chain. So I can say you experience when my friend used the same cable model for two different headphones (DT 990 with 600 ohms) and T1, the cable was same, but the result was very different in quality. And opposite, when friend used one built for DT 990 with 600 ohms and one built specially for T1. The results were again very different in quality.
Skylab (#1567) - Yes, I know this track (1984 – Some great reward album, I have SACD version).
donthuang (#1566) – Yes, it is true. There is not crossing, only „balanced“ construction. But when you want excellent binaural processing with T1, try ZAMA HPA-1 amp. This is excellent amp with BP in pure analogue level, it works excellently.
Parafeed (#1559) – Absolutely true what you said – „While you could argue that it isn't the cable itself that has a sound, the construction of and electrical specs of a cable can affect the overall system sound.“ It is difficult to say to a lot of people, but this is the true opinion.
majkel (#1552) – I listen PS 1000 and GS 1000i in Vienna last year with excellent amps. I can say, T1 and HD 800 are class higher quality then Grado’s. This is not only my opinion. Detail, clarity, balance, sound stage, highs, dynamics in highs, continuous effect of T1 … I think, today, when are released models like T1 or HD 800, Grado headphones (GS, PS) are extremely overcosted. Much better is investment for me to T1 then to Grado models, I obtain much more from T1 then from Grado models.
Skylab (#1544) – Yes, I listen Maria Callas, Kiri te Kanawa, or from modern era Edith Piaf, Jane Birkin, Mireille Mathiev, Marie Laforet or actual Mylene Farmer, they sound with T1 very beautiful, especially with good tube amps.
The Monkey (#1543) – This is true to know, but the real practice is often very different. I said only facts, true information about „cables“ and especially for T1, but there is different aspect of the freedom to be able here to say it. As you remember one week ago ...
majkel (#1535) – With HD 800 I tried in Prague more then 20 (!!!) different re-cablings and compared. I summoned three HD 800 models and I compared piece to piece on different devices. The results were truly different. So the cable and re-cabling is very important but we must say in which sense, because some interpretations are totally incorrect.
drubrew (#1534) - the game with different pads is a good idea. For Beyers, they may change the sound quality, to positive and negative order. But this is only my opinion.
Wmcmanus (#1533) – I do not like to say to people something what they do not like to hear, but the problem is NOT actual discussion, but the technological aspect, the form of structures of threads, their compositions (in inside or outside order) etc. When the thread has up to 10 pages, this form is perfect, but when it has more then 100 pages, the things are different. I have a lot of ideas or proposals how to do it better, but it needs serious discussion without emotions, especially for information accessibility for handicapped. In this order, here (in EU or USA) are TRUE rules, more precociously said RULES, which you must always satisfy. These Rules are Right (Law norms). The request on information accessibility for blinds is requested from Right, from law norms !!!
Der Germane (#1529) – You want the proofs? I can present you 25 proofs if you want, and of course scientific. The problem is NOT recabling for you, but the problem is elsewhere. There are a lot of variables which need be satisfied to obtain higher performance from your chain with current headphone-cable. As I said you, Heinz has tunned complete chain and there I practiced the interconnection RCA cable which I obtained in box with Beyer A1 amp. The result? The sound was so degraded with him top audio chain (in compare with him top interconnection cable), so I needed to borrow Usain Bolt’s legs to be able run very fast ...
majkel (#1527) – the problem is elsewhere. When you listen a few GOOD examples, where the things are truly presented, true differences, the discussion is there more rational and directional then discussion about speculations. I listen these examples and I understand the things, so I know what I say about this topic.
Der Germane (#1521) – Yes, I tried, a lot of tracks. There are specifics. Soundstage and airstage from HD 800 is very valuable thing, but T1 has their natural advantages.
wakeride74 (#1585) - Aha, you solve the same problem as I ...
Bluetick (#1573) – The vocals are for T1 excellent. I think, you will be very satisfied, as Skylab has said.
Wmcmanus (#1568) – Yes, I agree. The scientific details are more for scientific forum or threads, because there is calculated that readers has current relevant info or they can obtain there serious one. But the coin has always two parts. The T1 are very specific in many aspects and when you want say something serious about connection of T1 with serious amps or other devices, there you need say some words about „headphone-cable“ to T1 and how to do it effectively. When serious readers about T1 not found special information about the fact that T1 has „variable“ impedance and they requests specific low capacitances for their amp, then the amp (solid and tube) can harder „post“ the signal to headphones. This is the aspect which does things more complicated, to obtain the supreme performance from T1 from your audio chain. So I can say you experience when my friend used the same cable model for two different headphones (DT 990 with 600 ohms) and T1, the cable was same, but the result was very different in quality. And opposite, when friend used one built for DT 990 with 600 ohms and one built specially for T1. The results were again very different in quality.
Skylab (#1567) - Yes, I know this track (1984 – Some great reward album, I have SACD version).
donthuang (#1566) – Yes, it is true. There is not crossing, only „balanced“ construction. But when you want excellent binaural processing with T1, try ZAMA HPA-1 amp. This is excellent amp with BP in pure analogue level, it works excellently.
Parafeed (#1559) – Absolutely true what you said – „While you could argue that it isn't the cable itself that has a sound, the construction of and electrical specs of a cable can affect the overall system sound.“ It is difficult to say to a lot of people, but this is the true opinion.
majkel (#1552) – I listen PS 1000 and GS 1000i in Vienna last year with excellent amps. I can say, T1 and HD 800 are class higher quality then Grado’s. This is not only my opinion. Detail, clarity, balance, sound stage, highs, dynamics in highs, continuous effect of T1 … I think, today, when are released models like T1 or HD 800, Grado headphones (GS, PS) are extremely overcosted. Much better is investment for me to T1 then to Grado models, I obtain much more from T1 then from Grado models.
Skylab (#1544) – Yes, I listen Maria Callas, Kiri te Kanawa, or from modern era Edith Piaf, Jane Birkin, Mireille Mathiev, Marie Laforet or actual Mylene Farmer, they sound with T1 very beautiful, especially with good tube amps.
The Monkey (#1543) – This is true to know, but the real practice is often very different. I said only facts, true information about „cables“ and especially for T1, but there is different aspect of the freedom to be able here to say it. As you remember one week ago ...
majkel (#1535) – With HD 800 I tried in Prague more then 20 (!!!) different re-cablings and compared. I summoned three HD 800 models and I compared piece to piece on different devices. The results were truly different. So the cable and re-cabling is very important but we must say in which sense, because some interpretations are totally incorrect.
drubrew (#1534) - the game with different pads is a good idea. For Beyers, they may change the sound quality, to positive and negative order. But this is only my opinion.
Wmcmanus (#1533) – I do not like to say to people something what they do not like to hear, but the problem is NOT actual discussion, but the technological aspect, the form of structures of threads, their compositions (in inside or outside order) etc. When the thread has up to 10 pages, this form is perfect, but when it has more then 100 pages, the things are different. I have a lot of ideas or proposals how to do it better, but it needs serious discussion without emotions, especially for information accessibility for handicapped. In this order, here (in EU or USA) are TRUE rules, more precociously said RULES, which you must always satisfy. These Rules are Right (Law norms). The request on information accessibility for blinds is requested from Right, from law norms !!!
Der Germane (#1529) – You want the proofs? I can present you 25 proofs if you want, and of course scientific. The problem is NOT recabling for you, but the problem is elsewhere. There are a lot of variables which need be satisfied to obtain higher performance from your chain with current headphone-cable. As I said you, Heinz has tunned complete chain and there I practiced the interconnection RCA cable which I obtained in box with Beyer A1 amp. The result? The sound was so degraded with him top audio chain (in compare with him top interconnection cable), so I needed to borrow Usain Bolt’s legs to be able run very fast ...
majkel (#1527) – the problem is elsewhere. When you listen a few GOOD examples, where the things are truly presented, true differences, the discussion is there more rational and directional then discussion about speculations. I listen these examples and I understand the things, so I know what I say about this topic.
Der Germane (#1521) – Yes, I tried, a lot of tracks. There are specifics. Soundstage and airstage from HD 800 is very valuable thing, but T1 has their natural advantages.
wakeride74
Headphoneus Supremus
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Probably would not suite my tastes. I owned a DAC1 USB for a while and really tried to love it. Even feeding the beloved PS-1 through a Lisa III XP the DAC1 sounded very uninvolved to my ears. Results were worse with the D5000. That being said I am blowing my wad on the cans so a pricey amp will have to wait, I'm hoping in the mean time that I can look at something maybe like the EF5 and maybe roll some tubes to get a nice desktop rig going that would not be a PITA to take home.
| Originally Posted by neptius /img/forum/go_quote.gif wakeride74 (#1585) - Aha, you solve the same problem as I ...
|
Probably would not suite my tastes. I owned a DAC1 USB for a while and really tried to love it. Even feeding the beloved PS-1 through a Lisa III XP the DAC1 sounded very uninvolved to my ears. Results were worse with the D5000. That being said I am blowing my wad on the cans so a pricey amp will have to wait, I'm hoping in the mean time that I can look at something maybe like the EF5 and maybe roll some tubes to get a nice desktop rig going that would not be a PITA to take home.
gbacic
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Because we Canadians just appreciate the better things this world has to offer more than you Americans
Hmmm. Maybe I should go down to my hifi store and give the T1 a listen. Should I bring my 332? Or would a Heed be better (it's what they have there).
| Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif I forgot about that one. They are pretty cool. Did you realize that Bestbuy actually owns Futureshop? I wonder why they don't carry the blu ray steelbooks? |
Because we Canadians just appreciate the better things this world has to offer more than you Americans
Hmmm. Maybe I should go down to my hifi store and give the T1 a listen. Should I bring my 332? Or would a Heed be better (it's what they have there).
Quote:
As these are high impedance cans, I would go with tubes as they typically offer better voltage swings which typically synergize better. Or better still, bring both and let us know your thoughts!
| Originally Posted by gbacic /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because we Canadians just appreciate the better things this world has to offer more than you Americans
Hmmm. Maybe I should go down to my hifi store and give the T1 a listen. Should I bring my 332? Or would a Heed be better (it's what they have there). |
As these are high impedance cans, I would go with tubes as they typically offer better voltage swings which typically synergize better. Or better still, bring both and let us know your thoughts!
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