[Atom12]

Hi, amateur here, seeking help from experienced audiophiles.

My Sennheiser HD595 isn't working properly anymore, so it's time to replace it. I'm looking for open headphones with a warm sound signature and with plenty of bass (I like a good rumble ). In other words, I'm looking for something completely different than the HD595, which I find neutral and boring.

The headphones will be used for the following, while connected to a Windows PC:
- Gaming, primarily FPS games like CS:GO and PU Battleground, so good imaging is important
- Watching movies and TV shows, good bass is particularly important here
- Music - many different genres like metal, rock, classical, rap and so on.

After quite a bit of searching, I was about to settle for a Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro as they seem to be one of the only open headphones with the amount of bass I'm looking for, even though I'm a bit concerned about the treble people keep characterizing as harsh. But then I got an offer to buy a Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro that is barely used for almost half the price of a new one. From what I understand, I also need a headphone amp and a DAC. If it's any good, I have a Xonar D2/PM sound card that possibly could be used as a DAC?

My budget is about 700 USD for headphones, amp and DAC. The Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro costs 220 USD new, and I can buy the used Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro's for about 400 USD (they cost 700 new in my country). If I buy the 1990's, I have 300 USD left for amp+DAC. Here's the local price for some of the often recommended amps and DACs:
- Schiit Magni 2 + Modi 2 = 160 + 160 = 320 USD
- Schiit Magni 2 Uber + Modi 2 Uber = 230 + 230 = 460 USD
- Schiit Asgard 2 = 370 USD
- O2+ODAC not available from local vendor, 279 USD from official webpage + 25% taxes = 350 USD
- Creative SoundBlaster Z = 80 USD

Should I go for the 1990's, or is the 990's better suited for my preference and usage? It's worth mentioning that I can return the 990's if I don't like them, but I can't return the 1990's since I would not be buying them in a store. Which amp+DAC combo do you recommend that I get? It's important that the equipment I buy is capable to get out the full potential of the headphones.

I would really appreciate any help I can get!

 

[rixmatiz]

Head-fi noob here, but was a pro live sound engineer for eight years, managed the guitar section of an indie music store; also a pretty intelligent guy and a professional software engineer.  Hello there
 
I recently went through a very similar situation to yours, so I felt obligated to register and chime in.
 
First, unfortunately, I cannot speak for the DT1990.  I've had the DT770 Pro 80 ohm for about three years and I've consistently been very happy, running directly out of my laptop.  I recently got an urge to move forward, and, after some deliberation, bought a Magni 2U, a Modi 2U, and a set of DT990 600 ohm.  I think these are marketed as the "Premium", not the "Pro". But I am still not 100% clear on the Pro/Premium differences.  I think the drivers are the same.
 
Now, I'm in the US, so I paid $300 USD for the Schiit gear, and actually only $171 for the DT990s (overstock dot com).
 
I have been very pleased with the DAC and headphone amp.  They considerably improved the sound of my 80 ohm 770s.  The 600 ohm 990s are basically unusable without the amp.  With this rig, I don't encounter any problems the DT990 and tend to run the Magni on the high gain setting between 9:00 and 3:00, depending on my mood and the source material.  (The DT770s are considerably easier to drive, as you'd expect.)
 
I too read several reviews that complained about the high end of the DT990.  And I will say, right out of the box, I was inclined to agree with them. 
 
HOWEVER: I sold hundreds of guitar amps & cabs and knew that speakers will sound considerably different after some breaking in, so I've pounded these 990s with about 10 hours of pink noise, 10 hours of sine waves, and probably 30 hours of audio from varying genres.  I would not judge these headphones by how they sound after the first hour.  To be honest, I set up my rig after lunch, listened to it straight until the end of the work day, and felt as though the break-in process had already begun.  
 
The 990s have chilled out considerably and I am now basically elated every time I put them on my head.  The low end has come alive and is more pronounced after break in.  The high end has relaxed a great deal and tracks that were initially bordering on uncomfortable are totally pleasant.  The mids seem a little more pronounced now but I think it's just a perceived difference due to the changes in the low and high end.
 
I would say the imaging on the 990s is great, but again, I can't directly compare them to the 1990s.  I think the low end would be totally acceptable for gaming - I'll give BF4 or Starcraft a try for you.  And again, with music, I've had amazing experiences with industrial, metal, rock, funk, R&B...these are, IMHMFO, superb headphones.
 
Also I would point out that the DT990s are exceptionally comfortable.  I have a pretty big head.  
 
So, for a sub-$500 USD rig, I am really, really happy.  As always, YMMV.  Also, as this was my first real purchase of this kind, I am already dealing with strong GAS, including the urge to purchase a Valhalla 2 or something to that effect.

 

[Dulalala]

To be clear, neither of the headphone you listed above have a warm sound signature. I would stay away from Beyerdynamic in general if you want a warm sounding headphone.

 

[TwelveTrains]

If you want something warm and bassy, I would almost certainly go with the Sennheiser HD 650 instead of anything Beyerdynamic makes. The HD 650 is only $315 dollars on amazon right now. With the money left over you can get an Asgard 2, and a Modi 2 Uber. You can later even get a cheap soundcard to send an optical signal to your DAC, and take advantage of positional audio technology for gaming that a soundcard would offer.

 

[Atom12]

It surprises me that you say HD 650 could be the way to go, as almost everything I've read about it indicates that it's kind of bass light and not as "fun" as other alternatives. I've gotten this impression from the following thread, among others:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/493420/hd650-bass-light

I'm looking for something fun, which I guess I as an amateur would call "warm and bassy". Could the Beyers lean towards a warm sound signature if they're paired with a warm amp/dac?

 

[Me x3]

DT990 has some slight bump in the mid bass but it's otherwise a relatively cool and bright/analytical headphone.
HD650 is thick and mid-bassy with soft treble, definitely a warm sounding headphone.
 
If you want BIG bass then go for the Fidelio X1 or X2

 

[Atom12]

  Head-fi noob here, but was a pro live sound engineer for eight years, managed the guitar section of an indie music store; also a pretty intelligent guy and a professional software engineer.  Hello there
 
I recently went through a very similar situation to yours, so I felt obligated to register and chime in.
 
First, unfortunately, I cannot speak for the DT1990.  I've had the DT770 Pro 80 ohm for about three years and I've consistently been very happy, running directly out of my laptop.  I recently got an urge to move forward, and, after some deliberation, bought a Magni 2U, a Modi 2U, and a set of DT990 600 ohm.  I think these are marketed as the "Premium", not the "Pro". But I am still not 100% clear on the Pro/Premium differences.  I think the drivers are the same.
 
Now, I'm in the US, so I paid $300 USD for the Schiit gear, and actually only $171 for the DT990s (overstock dot com).
 
I have been very pleased with the DAC and headphone amp.  They considerably improved the sound of my 80 ohm 770s.  The 600 ohm 990s are basically unusable without the amp.  With this rig, I don't encounter any problems the DT990 and tend to run the Magni on the high gain setting between 9:00 and 3:00, depending on my mood and the source material.  (The DT770s are considerably easier to drive, as you'd expect.)
 
I too read several reviews that complained about the high end of the DT990.  And I will say, right out of the box, I was inclined to agree with them. 
 
HOWEVER: I sold hundreds of guitar amps & cabs and knew that speakers will sound considerably different after some breaking in, so I've pounded these 990s with about 10 hours of pink noise, 10 hours of sine waves, and probably 30 hours of audio from varying genres.  I would not judge these headphones by how they sound after the first hour.  To be honest, I set up my rig after lunch, listened to it straight until the end of the work day, and felt as though the break-in process had already begun.  
 
The 990s have chilled out considerably and I am now basically elated every time I put them on my head.  The low end has come alive and is more pronounced after break in.  The high end has relaxed a great deal and tracks that were initially bordering on uncomfortable are totally pleasant.  The mids seem a little more pronounced now but I think it's just a perceived difference due to the changes in the low and high end.
 
I would say the imaging on the 990s is great, but again, I can't directly compare them to the 1990s.  I think the low end would be totally acceptable for gaming - I'll give BF4 or Starcraft a try for you.  And again, with music, I've had amazing experiences with industrial, metal, rock, funk, R&B...these are, IMHMFO, superb headphones.
 
Also I would point out that the DT990s are exceptionally comfortable.  I have a pretty big head.  
 
So, for a sub-$500 USD rig, I am really, really happy.  As always, YMMV.  Also, as this was my first real purchase of this kind, I am already dealing with strong GAS, including the urge to purchase a Valhalla 2 or something to that effect.

Very interesting, thank you so much for this highly detailed response! Given the other replies, I'll still have to re-read everything about the HD 650 though, I wasn't aware that the Beyers are not considered warm at all.

 

[Atom12]

  DT990 has some slight bump in the mid bass but it's otherwise a relatively cool and bright/analytical headphone.
HD650 is thick and mid-bassy with soft treble, definitely a warm sounding headphone.
 
If you want BIG bass then go for the Fidelio X1 or X2

So I've read a bit more about the HD 650, and it seems like I might have discarded them too fast in regards to the amount of bass they are capable of producing. Thank you guys for pointing this out. I might come off as a bass head here, which I'm not, I'm just looking for headphones with a good sub- and mid-bass impact.

The only thing about the HD 650 that doesn't get stellar reviews, is it's gaming capabilities, where the soundstage and positioning is told to be lacking a bit:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-3-18-2016-mrspeakers-ether-c-1-1-added

I'll be gaming a lot using the headphones, primarily CS:GO, so good/great positioning is vital.

 

[TwelveTrains]

  It surprises me that you say HD 650 could be the way to go, as almost everything I've read about it indicates that it's kind of bass light and not as "fun" as other alternatives. I've gotten this impression from the following thread, among others:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/493420/hd650-bass-light

I'm looking for something fun, which I guess I as an amateur would call "warm and bassy". Could the Beyers lean towards a warm sound signature if they're paired with a warm amp/dac?

 
I own the HD 650 and I find it to have a LOT of bass, and a very warm signature.
 

 
So I've read a bit more about the HD 650, and it seems like I might have discarded them too fast in regards to the amount of bass they are capable of producing. Thank you guys for pointing this out. I might come off as a bass head here, which I'm not, I'm just looking for headphones with a good sub- and mid-bass impact.

The only thing about the HD 650 that doesn't get stellar reviews, is it's gaming capabilities, where the soundstage and positioning is told to be lacking a bit:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-3-18-2016-mrspeakers-ether-c-1-1-added

I'll be gaming a lot using the headphones, primarily CS:GO, so good/great positioning is vital.

 
First of all, you are not going to be able to get any gaming positioning beside stereo panning if you don't have a Dolby or Creative soundcard with either Dolby headphone or a Creative 3D audio technology. CS: GO is a Source game, so you might even be able to get a Creative card to take advantage of OpenAL with Alchemy. You might ask that question over here. But even if you don't get that to work, a soundcard is still going to have to be source for 3D audio, and there are plenty of inexpensive options available. 
 
Positioning for gaming is pretty average with the HD 650 because it is a dark, warm, and bass-heavy headphone. These attributes do not go hand in hand with a headphone that is going to have good detail-retrieval and positioning for gaming. The more bass a headphone has, the harder it is going to pick out the details in competitive gaming. The more warm sounding, the more 'congested' the soundstage is going to sound. The HD 650 are very euphoric, but not as much detail oriented as some headphones.
 
In reality, it is going to be harder to get any better than your HD 595 for a competitive gaming headphone. The HD 595/598 is airy, light, and has a massive soundstage, perfect for whoring details in games. As you go up in price, you're not really going to get increases is competitiveness, but rather trade some competitiveness for other things (i.e. fun factor, more bass, more immersion).

 

[phikun]

DT 990 Pro +1

 

[Atom12]

   
I own the HD 650 and I find it to have a LOT of bass, and a very warm signature.
 
 
First of all, you are not going to be able to get any gaming positioning beside stereo panning if you don't have a Dolby or Creative soundcard with either Dolby headphone or a Creative 3D audio technology. CS: GO is a Source game, so you might even be able to get a Creative card to take advantage of OpenAL with Alchemy. You might ask that question over here. But even if you don't get that to work, a soundcard is still going to have to be source for 3D audio, and there are plenty of inexpensive options available. 
 
Positioning for gaming is pretty average with the HD 650 because it is a dark, warm, and bass-heavy headphone. These attributes do not go hand in hand with a headphone that is going to have good detail-retrieval and positioning for gaming. The more bass a headphone has, the harder it is going to pick out the details in competitive gaming. The more warm sounding, the more 'congested' the soundstage is going to sound. The HD 650 are very euphoric, but not as much detail oriented as some headphones.
 
In reality, it is going to be harder to get any better than your HD 595 for a competitive gaming headphone. The HD 595/598 is airy, light, and has a massive soundstage, perfect for whoring details in games. As you go up in price, you're not really going to get increases is competitiveness, but rather trade some competitiveness for other things (i.e. fun factor, more bass, more immersion).

Yes, that's exactly why I've kept using the HD 595 for as long as I have. They're great for gaming, but that's about it IMO. It makes sense that higher frequencies are more subdued in headphones that are warm and bassy than in more neutral alternatives. But given that the HD 650 are seemingly just "ok" for gaming, are the 650's still the best choice for me? If attributes like "warm/dark" and "positioning" are mutually exclusive, are there any other alternatives that could be better suited for me? Maybe some that are not as dark as the HD 650, but still in the same class?

 

[TwelveTrains]

 
Yes, that's exactly why I've kept using the HD 595 for as long as I have. They're great for gaming, but that's about it IMO. It makes sense that higher frequencies are more subdued in headphones that are warm and bassy than in more neutral alternatives. But given that the HD 650 are seemingly just "ok" for gaming, are the 650's still the best choice for me? If attributes like "warm/dark" and "positioning" are mutually exclusive, are there any other alternatives that could be better suited for me? Maybe some that are not as dark as the HD 650, but still in the same class?

I could recommend to you the AKG K712. I have owned the AKG K701 for quite some time, which has one of the best soundstages in any headphone I have ever worn. It is highly analytical, but not necessarily "bright" in my opinion. The AKG K712 is basically a K701 with juicier mids and bass. This could be the perfect headphone for you BUT I don't like personally recommending the AKG K7xx line because of a design flaw that has plagued my experience with them. The connecting wires inside my AKG K7xx have broken off multiple times, due to the earcups being able to swivel independently of the point of connection to the wires, putting pressure on them, and ultimately making them fail.
 
Example 1
Example 2
 
But many people have been seemingly happy with the K7xx with no such issues. For me, it's a deal breaker.
 
 
 
Another idea might be the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog. This is a closed headphone, and I worry about the comfort of the leather/pleather, but based on what I've read, it could be a good fit for you. You will have to ask other people about that one though, I cannot personally recommend someone a headphone that I have not personally tried.

 

[TwelveTrains]

HiFiMan HE-400 could be another option I have read about. I haven't tried them though.

 

[kman1211]

It seems no one replying has even heard the DT 1990, people are just making assumptions. Honestly get the DT 1990 it's better than any of the headphones being suggested, I've owned essentially all the ones listed. The DT 1990 is one of the only Beyers that isn't overly bright and it has some seriously punchy bass. The DT 1990 is actually fairly easy to drive

 

[CypherZx]

I have several Beyers including the DT 1990 pros and 2 DT 990's 250/600ohms. I think for a $700 budget I would go with the 1990's and a Audioengine D1 DAC/amp. you can probably find a used D1 pretty cheap, I saw one recently for $80, its a good entry level DAC. One side note: I found my 1990s sound best with pads from my 990s, go figure.