[siberianmoon]

   
Those 3rd party sellers on Amazon offering these models for 50% off are either selling stolen merchandise or taking a loss. As an authorized Beyer dealer, I can tell you it costs me much more than that to get units in stock and Beyer has a strict Minimum Advertised Price policy. I know many buyers don't really care if a dealer can actually make a profit on a sale, but this kind of talk is disheartening.

My guess is that they are simply fake accounts trying to make a profit by scamming people. Some months ago I was browsing Amazon.de and noticed these fakers around especially "selling" Beyerdynamic headphones. The shop name always had a message "contact me" suggesting that they want you to make the transaction outside Amazon so that there is no proof of deal and it's impossible for you to take any action against some random Nigerian scammer.
 
But what surprised me was that Amazon.de actively allows these scammers. Many accounts were months old and angry customers had even posted on their Facebook page (and presumably the official feedback channel) about them. Every single item on their shop page was at an impossible discount price.
 
There are a few reasons why I gave up buying anything from Amazon some time ago.

 

[geoffalter11]

  True the Amiron does have a warmth the DT 1990 doesn't have and also a pleasant smooth treble while the DT 1990 has a nice tactility the Amiron doesn't have and doesn't really sound like it has much added such as warmth or brightness. The Amiron is more smooth and the DT 1990 is more raw. For me neither fatigue me. Honestly it's like the HD 600 vs HD 650 all over again, except this time there is a large fit and look difference.

I agree with you on this.  It is interesting in that when it comes to the Sennheiser's, I prefer the HD600 and still have my pair.  Although, they don't see much use these days.  However, with the Beyer's I prefer the Amiron Home. Although, the 1990 are a tremendously good looking and sounding headphone.  The Amiron makes me feel like I am standing in front of the soundboard at the Fillmore Aud in SF.  It evokes memories and sensations that I truly love.  They are not my daily drivers, that belongs to my Elears and ZMF Omni's.  But I really enjoy the smooth extension and comfort of the Amiron's.  I can see why people are critical of their tuning, I just don't agree.  I found the 1990 to sound a tad bit more "v" shaped, while the Amiron more neutral.  However, the detail retrieval and resolving power of the 1990 surpasses that of the Amiron.  Ultimately, the comfort and smooth edges along with the tight and fast bottom end of the Amiron won me over.  They just don't get to be my steady girlfriend.  I am seeing them on the side.

 

[kman1211]

  I agree with you on this.  It is interesting in that when it comes to the Sennheiser's, I prefer the HD600 and still have my pair.  Although, they don't see much use these days.  However, with the Beyer's I prefer the Amiron Home. Although, the 1990 are a tremendously good looking and sounding headphone.  The Amiron makes me feel like I am standing in front of the soundboard at the Fillmore Aud in SF.  It evokes memories and sensations that I truly love.  They are not my daily drivers, that belongs to my Elears and ZMF Omni's.  But I really enjoy the smooth extension and comfort of the Amiron's.  I can see why people are critical of their tuning, I just don't agree.  I found the 1990 to sound a tad bit more "v" shaped, while the Amiron more neutral.  However, the detail retrieval and resolving power of the 1990 surpasses that of the Amiron.  Ultimately, the comfort and smooth edges along with the tight and fast bottom end of the Amiron won me over.  They just don't get to be my steady girlfriend.  I am seeing them on the side.

Makes sense. I preferred the HD 650 out of the two. Though I think I'm the opposite here, slightly preferring the DT 1990 but haven't decided for sure which I like more. I personally find the DT 1990 a little more neutral and the Amirons a little more v-shaped(smoother but I also find it has slightly more treble due to a broader treble raise, more mid-bass, and slightly less mids), I find the Amiron gives the illusion of being less v-shaped due to it's smoothness but on close listening I noticed the mids are more forward on the DT 1990, I find the stronger upper mids and less mid-bass is why the DT 1990 sounds brighter overall. That and the Amirons warmth helps mask the treble presence slightly, this really came to light when I eq'd the mid-bass down a bit to around the DT 1990's level, but the treble is still a bit smoother than the DT 1990's.
 
Brightness I find comes from two regions, the upper mids and the treble and different headphones vary in terms of which region they are darker or brighter in, this is sorta why people debate whether the DT 880/990(more mid-upper treble brightness) or AKG K7(more upper mid/lower treble brightness) series is darker or brighter overall. In terms of actual treble the DT 1990 is slightly darker but slightly sharper due to a more narrow peak. To put it simply I find the DT 1990 to have brighter mids yet slightly darker treble while on the Amiron I find the mids darker but the treble slightly brighter. Honestly it is bit debatable on what sounds more neutral or v-shaped on these headphones due to their tuning, what people consider v-shaped, etc.
 
Also don't get me wrong, I do find the Amiron does have the better and more refined treble, I just noticed it's a little brighter overall. The Amiron to my ears has the best highs without a doubt among the Tesla Beyers. This is between my two units, not sure how much headphone variation plays into this.

 

[MarkF786]

  Those 3rd party sellers on Amazon offering these models for 50% off are either selling stolen merchandise or taking a loss. As an authorized Beyer dealer, I can tell you it costs me much more than that to get units in stock and Beyer has a strict Minimum Advertised Price policy. I know many buyers don't really care if a dealer can actually make a profit on a sale, but this kind of talk is disheartening.
 
As for the Elear, you should listen to it before deciding it's better than the DT1990 or Amiron. To my ears it is inferior. Great slam and dynamics, but weird unrefined treble. (That's just my two cents...Hey, same as my profit on these Beyers if I start price-matching the Amazon losers!)

 
In time, does the manufacturer (like Beyerdynamic) typically reduce the cost for resellers?  For example, the T90's MSRP is $639 but the street price has continued to drop, even below 50%, so I would imagine that the cost to resellers must also be dropping over time.
 
I do certainly care if a dealer makes a profit - especially for small independents - but I will generally look to buy items on sale when possible.

 

[JerseyD]

   
In time, does the manufacturer (like Beyerdynamic) typically reduce the cost for resellers?  For example, the T90's MSRP is $639 but the street price has continued to drop, even below 50%, so I would imagine that the cost to resellers must also be dropping over time.
 
I do certainly care if a dealer makes a profit - especially for small independents - but I will generally look to buy items on sale when possible.

At times, some manufacturers will do that (and when they do, they usually offer the dealer a credit for the difference in the old and new price for any pieces still left in inventory).  Beyer, however, has not done this for discontinued models. For the T70, they just said to blow them out at whatever we could get (and if we lost money, too bad).  The T90 is still listed at full price, retail and wholesale. If I had any left, I would be blowing them out at dealer cost just so I wouldn't lose anything (if I could even get that much).

 

[andrejc]

  
In time, does the manufacturer (like Beyerdynamic) typically reduce the cost for resellers?  For example, the T90's MSRP is $639 but the street price has continued to drop, even below 50%, so I would imagine that the cost to resellers must also be dropping over time.
 
I do certainly care if a dealer makes a profit - especially for small independents - but I will generally look to buy items on sale when possible.

At times, some manufacturers will do that (and when they do, they usually offer the dealer a credit for the difference in the old and new price for any pieces still left in inventory).  Beyer, however, has not done this for discontinued models. For the T70, they just said to blow them out at whatever we could get (and if we lost money, too bad).  The T90 is still listed at full price, retail and wholesale. If I had any left, I would be blowing them out at dealer cost just so I wouldn't lose anything (if I could even get that much).

Is $250 for T90 a good price?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[JerseyD]

Is $250 for T90 a good price?
 

It's a great price compared to actual retail and wholesale prices... If that is a legit price you have found, the real question is, do you like the T90 more than any other headphone you could buy for that same $250?

 

[geoffalter11]

  Makes sense. I preferred the HD 650 out of the two. Though I think I'm the opposite here, slightly preferring the DT 1990 but haven't decided for sure which I like more. I personally find the DT 1990 a little more neutral and the Amirons a little more v-shaped(smoother but I also find it has slightly more treble due to a broader treble raise, more mid-bass, and slightly less mids), I find the Amiron gives the illusion of being less v-shaped due to it's smoothness but on close listening I noticed the mids are more forward on the DT 1990, I find the stronger upper mids and less mid-bass is why the DT 1990 sounds brighter overall. That and the Amirons warmth helps mask the treble presence slightly, this really came to light when I eq'd the mid-bass down a bit to around the DT 1990's level, but the treble is still a bit smoother than the DT 1990's.
 
Brightness I find comes from two regions, the upper mids and the treble and different headphones vary in terms of which region they are darker or brighter in, this is sorta why people debate whether the DT 880/990(more mid-upper treble brightness) or AKG K7(more upper mid/lower treble brightness) series is darker or brighter overall. In terms of actual treble the DT 1990 is slightly darker but slightly sharper due to a more narrow peak. To put it simply I find the DT 1990 to have brighter mids yet slightly darker treble while on the Amiron I find the mids darker but the treble slightly brighter. Honestly it is bit debatable on what sounds more neutral or v-shaped on these headphones due to their tuning, what people consider v-shaped, etc.
 
Also don't get me wrong, I do find the Amiron does have the better and more refined treble, I just noticed it's a little brighter overall. The Amiron to my ears has the best highs without a doubt among the Tesla Beyers. This is between my two units, not sure how much headphone variation plays into this.

You could be right about variation.  There is a level of variation with any artisan product that is made.  As a chef, I come across this every day with the products we use.  No two products are ever exactly alike.  I haven't spent any time fiddling with EQ, I would assume this would show me a lot of the things I think I am hearing versus what is actually going on.  Thank you for your thoughts... I agree that the highs on the Amiron are fantastic, and I do at times feel the mids to be slightly recessed, especially when I am listening to certain live shows.  I lose site of the vocals a tad bit.  The fatigue free sound is wonderful, but because of the slightly recessed mids (which I don't hear with every type of music), they only get part of my heart.

 

[kman1211]

  You could be right about variation.  There is a level of variation with any artisan product that is made.  As a chef, I come across this every day with the products we use.  No two products are ever exactly alike.  I haven't spent any time fiddling with EQ, I would assume this would show me a lot of the things I think I am hearing versus what is actually going on.  Thank you for your thoughts... I agree that the highs on the Amiron are fantastic, and I do at times feel the mids to be slightly recessed, especially when I am listening to certain live shows.  I lose site of the vocals a tad bit.  The fatigue free sound is wonderful, but because of the slightly recessed mids (which I don't hear with every type of music), they only get part of my heart.

Yeah, for example my DT 1990 has notably tighter bass than my Amiron and it's a driver thing as swapping drivers between them yielded the same results. Not sure if it's a break-in thing either, my DT 1990 does has a lot more use. I will see with long term use. They may actually have the same drivers, just not sure if they tune them different or it's unit variation to blame for the difference. No they aren't. I've heard variances in about every headphone I've heard two or more different ones of, for example on the HD 650's, one had slightly fatiguing sparkly treble and another was essentially perfectly smooth. The differences between the two headphones sound isn't huge, it's really more like the difference between the HD 600 and HD 650.
 
I personally do find the DT 1990 to sound better across multiple genres, for people with an eclectic taste in music like I do who listens to everything from EDM to classical and whatever weird stuff there may be in-between, I think the DT 1990 is a better choice as I find the DT 1990 more of a genre master. I find the Amiron to shine more among genres such as jazz, laid-back music, a lot of classical, sad/somber music, soft rock, etc. I also find the Amiron a bit better for movies/shows and video games. 

 

[CBonUK]

  My guess is that they are simply fake accounts trying to make a profit by scamming people. Some months ago I was browsing Amazon.de and noticed these fakers around especially "selling" Beyerdynamic headphones. The shop name always had a message "contact me" suggesting that they want you to make the transaction outside Amazon so that there is no proof of deal and it's impossible for you to take any action against some random Nigerian scammer.
 
But what surprised me was that Amazon.de actively allows these scammers. Many accounts were months old and angry customers had even posted on their Facebook page (and presumably the official feedback channel) about them. Every single item on their shop page was at an impossible discount price.
 
There are a few reasons why I gave up buying anything from Amazon some time ago.

​To be fair, Amazon themselves do sometimes reduce prices.  The Amirons were sold at 350 euro for a short period on Amazon.fr.  You can track these prices.  Amazon were the seller, not selling on behalf of someone else through the fulfilment centre apparently.  Ive not heard of fake Amirons being produced yet, but that is possible I suppose.  The price is up and down at the moment.  Amazon.it had the DT1990s for 498 euro for a week or so but now they have gone back up to 599.  However on the UK site the price has come down by £20.  Still not as low as the price I paid a couple of weeks ago.  Amazon.ca have them for the equivalent of £397 but will not ship to the UK.  Now I ask the question, HOW the **** can Amazon in CANADA, buy GERMAN (European based) headphones for less money than they are sold for in Europe !?  Manufacturers who have these price fixing policies deserve to go out of business.  It is a complete infringement of free trade.

 

[geoffalter11]

  Yeah, for example my DT 1990 has notably tighter bass than my Amiron and it's a driver thing as swapping drivers between them yielded the same results. Not sure if it's a break-in thing either, my DT 1990 does has a lot more use. I will see with long term use. They may actually have the same drivers, just not sure if they tune them different or it's unit variation to blame for the difference. No they aren't. I've heard variances in about every headphone I've heard two or more different ones of, for example on the HD 650's, one had slightly fatiguing sparkly treble and another was essentially perfectly smooth. The differences between the two headphones sound isn't huge, it's really more like the difference between the HD 600 and HD 650.
 
I personally do find the DT 1990 to sound better across multiple genres, for people with an eclectic taste in music like I do who listens to everything from EDM to classical and whatever weird stuff there may be in-between, I think the DT 1990 is a better choice as I find the DT 1990 more of a genre master. I find the Amiron to shine more among genres such as jazz, laid-back music, a lot of classical, sad/somber music, soft rock, etc. I also find the Amiron a bit better for movies/shows and video games. 

I think you hit the nail on the head.  I listen to mostly mid-tempo music.  Jazz, funk, blues, psychadelic rock, bluegrass.  I also watch a lot of movies with my Amiron's.  A good reason why I prefer them to the 1990.  Although, I think I will pick up a pair of 1990's at some point.  Right now, my daily drivers are the EnigmAcoustic Dharma D1000s. Their ability to resolve and create a clear and thoughtful image has me coming up for air.  I also love my Elears and Omni's, but find myself wondering how I will ever find a headphone with sweeter treble than the Dharma's.  What a fun hobby.  I want to get my first tube amp next.  Suggestions?

 

[ostewart]

​To be fair, Amazon themselves do sometimes reduce prices.  The Amirons were sold at 350 euro for a short period on Amazon.fr.  You can track these prices.  Amazon were the seller, not selling on behalf of someone else through the fulfilment centre apparently.  Ive not heard of fake Amirons being produced yet, but that is possible I suppose.  The price is up and down at the moment.  Amazon.it had the DT1990s for 498 euro for a week or so but now they have gone back up to 599.  However on the UK site the price has come down by £20.  Still not as low as the price I paid a couple of weeks ago.  Amazon.ca have them for the equivalent of £397 but will not ship to the UK.  Now I ask the question, HOW the **** can Amazon in CANADA, buy GERMAN (European based) headphones for less money than they are sold for in Europe !?  Manufacturers who have these price fixing policies deserve to go out of business.  It is a complete infringement of free trade.

So you think it's wrong for a manufacturer to try and control the pricing? Are you aware of how most businesses work? Also it is rarely the manufacturer that tries to control the pricing, it is more the distributor. Either way I do not agree with your very vocal statement about how you think beyerdynamic should run their very successful business (family owned, been around for a long long time, so they must be doing ok).

Also Amazon tracks pricing from other websites and adjusts theirs to match that, all it takes is a website to list the Amirons or other product at the wrong price, or a heavily discounted price (for unknown reason) for Amazon to be like, hey wait a minute they are selling for this so we need to.

Classic example is the T1 or T5p, both of which the 2nd gen pricing went very low because they were price matching the price of the original model, this is where their algorithm fails.

 

[LaCuffia]

I find Beyerdynamic pricing to be pretty reasonable compared to a lot of other companies. But I know longevity and success allows that to happen.

 

[CBonUK]

So you think it's wrong for a manufacturer to try and control the pricing? Are you aware of how most businesses work? Also it is rarely the manufacturer that tries to control the pricing, it is more the distributor. Either way I do not agree with your very vocal statement about how you think beyerdynamic should run their very successful business (family owned, been around for a long long time, so they must be doing ok).

Also Amazon tracks pricing from other websites and adjusts theirs to match that, all it takes is a website to list the Amirons or other product at the wrong price, or a heavily discounted price (for unknown reason) for Amazon to be like, hey wait a minute they are selling for this so we need to.

Classic example is the T1 or T5p, both of which the 2nd gen pricing went very low because they were price matching the price of the original model, this is where their algorithm fails.

​I'm not in the slightest bit interested in your opinion.  Not because you may have a valid one, but because your tone is obnoxious and antagonistic.  But in reply, YES I do think it is wrong for any manufacturer or distributor to employ price fixing policies.  If you had failed to notice, we live in a society which encourages competition and freedom of trade.  The manufacturer sets a price that they charge their distributors and that satisfies their return on the manufacture process.  They should then be happy.  The distributor then sells that product to the retailer at a price they are happy with.  It should then be up to the retailer to sell for whatever price they think fit to make them competitive within the market.  The only people who suffer from price fixing are the consumers.  My (very vocal apparently, even though I cant imagine how you heard me since I only wrote it down) comments support this.  Otherwise (at the cost of repeating myself so perhaps it sinks in a little this time, rather than prompting you to troll off such a vehement response) A) How can Amazon in CANADA sell the product for less money than retailers in Europe.  The only justification for higher prices (in my humble, non greed corporate minded opinion) is that shipping costs are higher in a particular region.  But that cannot be the case for Canada compared to the UK and other European countries who buy goods from Germany.  It just doesn't compute.  It cannot possible cost less to send to Canada which is thousands of miles away, than it does to send to the UK, from Germany.    and B) My point about the hugely fluctuating prices on Amazon bears absolutely no relevance to your argument about making sure that a manufacturer or distributor should fix prices, because in fact it displays the very opposite is happening.  If Amazon can sell the DT1990 one week at £426 and then put it up to £483 the next week, then its down to £466 a few days later, whilst the Italian site has them at 498 euros and then back up to 599 euros the next week, this is clearly nothing to do with the manufacturer or wholesaler.  Its a pricing policy that Amazon have adopted to chance people into paying a higher price than they need to.  Its exactly the same as MFI who used to have their kitchens on sale at FULL price one month then went into a sale the next month.  They did it in the vain hope that they would get lucky and customers would pay the higher price.  Sadly the customers were the only people who suffered because they either got roped into paying too much, or they had to cancel and re-order the kitchen which meant their delivery timeframe was lost.  Either way, Its the consumer who gets shafted. 

 

[ostewart]

At the end of the day, the consumer always wants the lowest price, but if they choose to pay full price that is their choice, if you don't want to pay for it don't buy it. It's the same with saying something is worth the money, that's the users own opinion.
 
There is no point arguing saying people are being shafted etc... If people are buying them, then that is their choice to pay the amount they pay.
 
The other side of the argument is that sellers are always putting the prices down, sometimes to wholesale prices, which out prices any smaller companies and they will go out of business or not buy anything of a certain brand as they cannot make enough margin on it, which is why you won't get the products in a lot of main stores. This is where trying to control what people sell at is very important, and a big part of how businesses function.