Beyer DT-931 as the perfect complement to Senns HD-600?
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greenhorn

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I am the proud and happy owner of a Corda HA-1 amp (thanks, Dr. Meier!), and of a pair of Sennheiser HD-600. Now I feel VERY happy with this combo, BUT:

1) I read on this forum that the HD-600s may not be the best headphones for rock music;

2) I also read that the 120 ohm output of the Corda HA-1 is great for the Beyer DT-931 (and for Beyer DT-931 only);

3) finally, I also read that the Beyer DT-931 is a great headphone for rock music, and that it would have what it is said the HD-600 would be somehow lacking: high frequencies...

Let me say that I LOVE my HD-600s and that they sound fantastic to my ears... with classical and with rock... but I do not exclude the possibility of buying a second pair of cans, as a complement to the HD-600s. You know, listen to some stuff with the HD-600s and to some other stuff with... WELL, HERE IS WHERE I NEED YOUR HELP, FOLKS: should this complement be called Beyer DT-931 or, if not, how?


What I need (do I?
) is a pair of cans as superb sounding as the HD-600s, but... different.

What do you think? Thanks!!!
 
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Tim D

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I never personally thought of the DT931 as the greatest for rock. It does better with more polished recordings. Yet indeed it is very complementary in regards to sound...it is not however complementary in form and function like say Ety's which is more complementary in all aspects.

Also it is the 0 output impedance that you should be using with most phones including your Senns...it is the 120 ohm impedance that basically only the Beyers like.
 
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greenhorn

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Tim D:

Sorry, I made a mistake when writing that the *0 ohm* output would fit the Beyers; I meant *120 ohms* and had now edited my first post accordingly. Yes, I listen to my Senns via the 0 ohms output.

As for the Etys: I should have mentioned that I'm not very attracted by in-ear models. I mainly listen at home, no isolation is needed. I meant "complementary" as "complementary sounding" only


Which cans do *you* consider as great for rock?
 
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Tim D

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Grados
V6
AKG240S
all can make fun rock headphones.

The DT931 is indeed a great pairing with the Corda and complementary but you might find yourself switching between the DT931 and HD600 on other criteria besides just music genre alone(you might find yourself listening to the HD600 on a lot of rock music still). It depends on if you want an overall complementary sound that you can switch between, or if you just want a more rock oriented headphone. With the DT931 cymbals can sizzle on some rock recordings...it can sound good, but after sometime a bit tiring on the ears especially given the sometimes poor nature of some rock recordings. Also the DT931 is just a very flat headphone from upper midrange down and would never add punchyness...again I find it more suited towards a polished and refined recording.

Yes the DT931 will fit the bill...but its never really a question of need is it? Eh...personally I find the whole "complementary" speal thing to just be a justification for wanting more stuff. I mean couldn't you argue that an Orpheus is complementary. Or that Stax Omega II, or that AKG1000? When you say complementary in "sound" it doesn't really mean that much. If you are asking wheter the DT931 is such a perfect complement for the HD600 that both these two headphones will forever satiate your desires no matter what genre or recording you throw at this dynamic duo...than...probably not.
 
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dougli

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There are some good comments so far. I'll just say that I have been switching back and forth between the DT931 and HD600, using the Corda, both before and after it was "Blued", and there are some rock recordings for which I prefer the 931. If the recorded bass is good, then the 931 can be used to bring out details which few other cans can do. To my ears, the 931 through the 120 ohm jack is less bright than some of the other suggested phones, which would be used on the 0 ohm jack.

But you'll really have to find out for yourself...
 
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kelly

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I didn't think the DT931 and HD600 sounded all that different. They have many of the same strengths and weaknesses. They're a little different and I can see someone preferring one over the other but if you're looking for something very different sounding then the DT931 is probably the wrong place to look.

I don't really have anything else to recommend at that price level though, and at least if you do get it, you'll have another great headphone. I imagine you'd end up parting with one or the other though unless you just like collecting them, which is ok too.
 
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RickG

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I don't know, kelly...I think the differences are striking. The 931s don't have the mid-bass hump of the HD600s. At the same time, the 600s do not exhibit the extreme top end extension of the 931s. We all seem to agree that this anomaly is tamed by the adapter. I think they are very different sounding phones.

 
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greenhorn

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Tim D:

Yeah, I believe you're right. Just wanted to convince myself that I really need a second pair of cans *as a complement*


Let's simplify things
: if I were to offer myself a nice present, to fit my Corda amp and to have a different sound to the HD-600s... well? What headphone should it be?

If *Beyers and Beyers only* fit the 120 ohm output of the Corda, this should be a serious reason to believe that a pair of Beyers would fit my need... Please correct me if this seems to be wrong. Would then a serious reason exist to make me decide to get something else, not Beyer?

Or maybe Beyer 770 are better for rock than the 931s?

Grados RS1 are too expensive for me; Sony V6... well, I have something personal against Sony
; and AKG 240S, I never thought to get those so far, I have to do a bit of research, as I don't know anything about them. Are they better for rock as AKG K501s?


dougli:

Many thanks for your impressions! I can't find out for myself before buying the headphones, because I don't have the possibility to listen and compare anywhere. I'm in Europe, far away from the Headroom tours and my local high end dealer is not very cooperative... That's the reason why your comments of you all are so valuable to me.

When you were "switching back and forth", were you connecting the HD-600s to the 0 ohm output and the Beyers to the 120 ohm one, or were you alternatively using the same output for both headphones? If so, was it the 0 ohms one or the 120 ohms one?

As for the DT-931s bass: do I understand correctly that you consider DT-931 as being able to deliver a great bass, if this great bass exists on the recording? I'm asking because I believe I read somewhere that the DT-831 would be much better as the DT-931 for bass... Could you, please, elaborate a bit?

Is the DT-931 generally considered to be the "ultimate" Beyer headphone (as HD-600 is for Sennheiser)? Or it is a totally different line to the 770s?


RickG:

Adapter? What adapter??? Do I need an adapter if I get the DT-931 (or other Beyers)? Or the adapter is considered to be the 120 ohm output of the Corda amp?


Newbie way of thinking, newbie questions

 
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Tim D

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Yah I consider them to sound a lot different impedance adapter or not. It also depends on the viewpoint...I am assuming to a person who is willing to buy two similar headphones of very similar form and function for sonic merit alone...then to them I think they would sound quite different.

To a person who only wants "one" headphone of that form and function for which to cover a wide base of listening preferences...then I agree there are a lot of similar qualities in that regard.

Also the more I read your posts the more I get the impression that you put an emphasis on phones that are good for rock. Again the DT931 to my ears, although can sound just great on some rock recordings, do not have the overall characteristics that I think would make it a definitive rock phone to most people.
 
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greenhorn

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kelly:

"unless you just like collecting them, which is ok too."

My goodness, am I already contaminated?
 
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RickG

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Quote:

Originally posted by greenhorn
RickG:

Adapter? What adapter??? Do I need an adapter if I get the DT-931 (or other Beyers)? Or the adapter is considered to be the 120 ohm output of the Corda amp?


Exactly. greenhorn. The adaptor comes with the Porta-corda (Jan will sell you one if you need it). But it is the same as the 120 ohm/ slot on the Corda.

Quote:

From Jan's site:




"With most headphones, increasing the output impedance makes the headphone sound darker and more muddy (the amplifier loosens his grip/control on the movement of the driver).
However, some headphones (like the Beyerdynamic DT931) definitely sound better at 120 Ohm (which is an international audio standard)
.

impedance optimisation

If your headphone sounds sharp and aggressive, you might consider increasing the effective output impedance of your headphone jacket. The simplest method is to place an adapter between headphone jack and headphone as shown in the figure. The adapter has a resistor placed in series with each audio-channel of the headphone. The effective output impedance is the sum of the output impedance of the jacket and the value of the resistor."


Cheers,

 
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kelly

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The "adapter" is to use the DT931 from normal 0ohm jacks.

Since all other headphones work fine from your 0ohm jack, I disagree that this is a reason to own the DT931.


I agree with the differences RickG points out, but I still consider there to be a smaller overall difference in sound between the DT931 and HD600 than between either of those and say... an AKG, Grado or Sony headphone. Of course part of that may be my bias that I think the DT931 and HD600 are both "good."

I do wish I could spend more time with the DT931, myself. I'd like to hear it on the RKV.
 
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braillediver

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I'm in the same boat as you and I asked a similar question last month.
"Which Head Phones would compliment the HD600’s?"

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...threadid=15901

I should have Emailed Jan Meier and asked his recommendation.

Do you use headphones with a portable source? If so Grado might be a good choice?

I want high impedance headphones since I'm moving towards OTL tube amps. My power supply transformer and tube sockets just came in today for the Morgan Jones Mini Head.
 
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j-curve

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You're looking for something to offset the HD600, and you're willing to fork out the cash for a Beyer. Doesn't that suggest one of the closed designs?

I've never heard a Corda but choosing a phone to suit your amp sounds back-to-front to me. Sure, no harm in searching for a synergy but...
 
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MacDEF

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Nicely put, TimD.

I agree that for some genres, the DT931 and HD 600 complement each other, but I certainly wouldn't call the DT931 a great "rock" headphone. If you really want one of those, I'd look more towards the DT770 or DT250, or to any Grado.
 
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