[ValeTudoGuy]

There's a tipping point where this question needs to be asked the other way round. When you're starting out in hifi, and each of your main components costs say a couple of hundred bucks, then $1k spent on cables would be really stupid.

But say you've got a high end system where each main component costs $10k, but with stock cables. And you want the best bang from the $1k you have to spend. Then you'd be crazy IMO to not spend that on carefully chosen cables, compared to say replacing your $10k amp with an $11k amp.

Most headfiers probably have equipment values somewhere in between these extremes, and therein lies the fun, or maybe frustration, in deciding what is the next change that will give the best improvement in SQ.

After years of being a skeptic, and forever being surprised at what the best bang for buck turned out to be at various stages of my journey, I've given up trying to apply scientific logic to any decision - I now treat every single new candidate as a black box, whether it's a headphone, cable, tube, fuse etc. Each item is treated as a black box that is judged purely on whether I could get better SQ if I bought a different black box for the same outlay. If a $1k fuse gave me better SQ than a $1k headphones, then I'd buy the fuse (on reflection, even I would struggle to come to terms with that particular example ).

I can't disagree with anything you have said.

Firstly I can't comment on 10k items of audio kit... That's about what my car is worth, although I did drop over £4k on a TV. Other than that one of my 5.1 speaker package's cost around £1.5k and it's down hill from there.
But I would imagine the difference between a 10k amp and 11k amp is potentially not significant..... I would also suggest that potentially the difference between a 2k amp and 10k amp may not be significant at times.

Your black box philosophy is the absolute best way to buy A/V gear IMO.... Just in my and the people i know's circumstance it's never been cables that warranted any upgrade.
Honestly though, If one day I hear a cable make a significant difference (or any difference at all.) and it is feasible for me to to add it to my gear then for sure I would be willing to drop serious (value respective to me.) cash on such an item.

I am however, yet to hear a cable make any difference (so long as it is fit for purpose.) also one thing I know for damn sure is that cables can't improve the signal they carry, the ABSOLUTE best a cable can ever hope to do is output a true representation of the signal that was put into it. Does it take a 5k cable to do that? I don't think so.... Does it take a £500 cable to do that? Not for me. I manage to do it with some self made jobbies that I dress up in techflex etc for vanity reasons yet still only cost me a few ££££ a set.

YMMV as they say, I would however love to be proved wrong. Does anyone have a 10K+ system and fancy letting me bring my DIY cables round for a test against their exotics?

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

OK  My one cent.

 
I've been fairly bored with aftermarket cables until some of the various guys started making litz-wire cables of various kinds, which your cable is. I've liked the sonic results with those actually, to the point I'd rather buy a pair of ICs from one of them over an uber-expensive brand name cable, as the results have been just as good, sonically, for me. Given they all hand-braid their cables, which is monotonous and time-consuming, I justify the price in that I'm paying a labour wage to them for doing it. 

 

[sceleratus]

Quote:

 
I've been fairly bored with aftermarket cables until some of the various guys started making litz-wire cables of various kinds, which your cable is. I've liked the sonic results with those actually, to the point I'd rather buy a pair of ICs from one of them over an uber-expensive brand name cable, as the results have been just a
s good, sonically, for me. Given they all hand-braid their cables, which is monotonous and time-consuming, I justify the price in that I'm paying a labour wage to them for doing it. 

Paraphrasing my story....Lyr / Bifrost/LCD....loaner cable....just for fun....sure OK...low expectations...Wow !!  "Didn't see that coming"  Past the "smack me in the face test".
 
THEN....
"How much".....My friend sold me the unblemished still smells new, Blue model..... like I would know the difference.... for so little I had to pay him more.     Thanks for the info C.  I wasn't sure it was litz-wire. It doesn't matter, it just fell in my lap and I love it.   Science no. Alchemy yes.  
 
Between a couple sets of RTC E188CC's and a pair of 1959 Valvo PCC88 D getters....that were also an amazing surprise.....  I can't imagine my kit sounding any better.
 
Sold all my other glass....Game over.  Sewing the leather shut.....done.... I won.
 
 
EDIT:
I wasn't going to post in this thread.... I had to reply.  All-the-best.

 

[ACDOAN]

Quote:

It's all about synergy , metallurgy, wealth n personal taste.
Better cable = better sound...by definition it's true.

Back to myself, every cable I tried made a difference in sound,
Sometimes I liked the difference, sometimes I don't.
I sold those that didn't enhance my setup.
It's that simple, no science will stop that sale...lol.

Bite the bullet....go get a "better" cable

I'd like your thinking.  They do sound differently. It could be better or worse. I believe cables are system dependence. As long as I can hear the difference between the Kimber Hero and the Kimber PBJ and the Kimber Silver streak, it's my money and it's my ear. Scientific or not, my perception tells me where and what to buy to keep my system in synergy. Cannot prove God existence does not mean there is no God.

 

[Lorspeaker]

once upon a time when i first started on home-fi..
"handcrafted, artisan cable" was the way to go..
kimbers were displayed side by side to monster cables..nicely packed,
so i didnt feel the urge to pick up a kimber..
 

 

[Greenleaf7]

I recently auditioned the Violectric V200 and V800 with shunyata ztron python power cables. I did most of my listening using a HD 800 and HD 650. I felt that the mids and sound stage were vastly improved when using the HD 800. The bass was much improved as well, especially in the sub-bass region. Was absolutely blown away by the cables. Never thought it would be so much better than the stock ones.

 

[Lorspeaker]

u had one each on the dac n amp?
which affect the sound more?

 

[blackmarket]

I also was skeptical once of upgrading cables because everyone has such varying opinions about them so i decided to just take the plunge and decide for myself. I bought an aftermarket silver cable for my iems and before i switched the cables i listened to my pair of iems for a couple days nonstop so that when i switched i would (hopefully) be able to notice small differences immediately. When i did switch the cables, i have to say i did feel that i heard a difference in bass, but after some thought and going back and forth between the stock and silver cable, i decided that the difference was so small and insignificant that i wasn't even sure if there was a difference at all. My opinion on aftermarket cables is: buy it for the looks, the durability, the flexibility, the length, etc but don't buy it expecting it to radically change the sound of your listening device.

 

[Greenleaf7]

Quote:

I also was skeptical once of upgrading cables because everyone has such varying opinions about them so i decided to just take the plunge and decide for myself. I bought an aftermarket silver cable for my iems and before i switched the cables i listened to my pair of iems for a couple days nonstop so that when i switched i would (hopefully) be able to notice small differences immediately. When i did switch the cables, i have to say i did feel that i heard a difference in bass, but after some thought and going back and forth between the stock and silver cable, i decided that the difference was so small and insignificant that i wasn't even sure if there was a difference at all. My opinion on aftermarket cables is: buy it for the looks, the durability, the flexibility, the length, etc but don't buy it expecting it to radically change the sound of your listening device.

i'm glad that you're enjoying your cables too. I think some may question using cables that cost as much as or more than the amp and dac combined. But the great improvement in sound quality as well as it's impeccable build quality more than justifies it's hefty price tag.
 
Quote:

u had one each on the dac n amp?
which affect the sound more?

 
Yes, ztron cables were used on both dac and amp. I can't say for certain which affected the sound more, as I made the comparisons using solely stock or ztron cables on both equipment. But when used with both amp and dac, the results were outstanding. Sound stage was much wider, imaging was better , depth and dynamics were second to none.

 

[Lorspeaker]

i treat investment in cables as liken to a country spending money on infrastructure....
can be used on different dacs, amps over the long haul...
but i still munch at the midfi level.

 

[ValeTudoGuy]

i'm glad that you're enjoying your cables too. I think some may question using cables that cost as much as or more than the amp and dac combined. But the great improvement in sound quality as well as it's impeccable build quality more than justifies it's hefty price tag.

Yes, ztron cables were used on both dac and amp. I can't say for certain which affected the sound more, as I made the comparisons using solely stock or ztron cables on both equipment. But when used with both amp and dac, the results were outstanding. Sound stage was 
much wider, 
imaging was 
better , depth and dynamics were second to none.

Did you read his post? When you say "the great improvement in sound quality"... blackmarket specifically said "I wasn't even sure if there was a difference at all."

I am also intreagued to know how cables affect soundstage?... I can almost buy into the possibility that they affect overall sound quality, perhaps beyond my experiences/physical capabilities (I doub't it, I have pretty decent hearing.)
But I certainly can't accept the fact that they can have any affect on soundstage. In standard audio use, any cable in your system is carrying at most a stereo signal and in the case of speaker cables only a mono signal, soundstage can only be affected by the speaker.... Period.

 

[Lorspeaker]

Those who cant accept..wont buy..n will nvr know.

Those who are curious..will buy n listen...n return if nothing happens..
N keep if the wall in the listeningroom fell off..n he sees the forest yonder.

I returned some..
Kept afew.

The latest usb opened my ceiling ....
Ok jus kidding...left right n front walls fell off tats all.

 

[ACDOAN]

Is there any scientific evidence for cables giving better sound? I just feel people say that they like it. But I have never seen anyone explain why. Do anyone here know?

 
It's all about one's perception. Science is not all in all an answer . Resistance, Capacitance and inductance in cables designed and structured are not the same from one design to another. If you cannot hear the difference, it's great since you will save a bunch of money. Be happy and enjoy what you have. If you can hear the difference , It's great for you since the holy grail is endless and your journey will be long and expensive. This question has been debated to death and it is endless and it leads to no where. Happy listening.

 

[ACDOAN]

Those who cant accept..wont buy..n will nvr know.

Those who are curious..will buy n listen...n return if nothing happens..
N keep if the wall in the listeningroom fell off..n he sees the forest yonder.

I returned some..
Kept afew.

The latest usb opened my ceiling ....

Ok jus kidding...left right n front walls fell off tats all.

 
Yeah, the old hi-end saying "you can see the forest but not the trees". The problem is not the cables but knowing what to look for or should I say what kind of tree(s) you are looking for. All in all, Mid-End amps, Pre, CDP do not response well to whatever links them together. It's not just interconnect cables but rather the system as a whole. System synergy including your room interaction are the key, period.

 

[Greenleaf7]

There are no doubt different opinions regarding cables. Here are 2 interesting articles i recently read.
 
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/powercords.html
 
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html