[Hi Rez]

Quote:

sound is leaner and cleaner. but i d'ont know if i like this. sound is becoming too polite. 

Had a similar experience when I upgraded my cables.  Music with portions that "jumped" out at me no longer did.  Instead it was simply there - cleaner and more relaxed.  Took a while to appreciate the change.  
Now some poorly recorded music that I used to think sounded pretty good just sounds like poorly recorded music.

 

[erikfreedom]

Quote:

Had a similar experience when I upgraded my cables.  Music with portions that "jumped" out at me no longer did.  Instead it was simply there - cleaner and more relaxed.  Took a while to appreciate the change.  
Now some poorly recorded music that I used to think sounded pretty good just sounds like poorly recorded music.

this afternoon I put the cables on my beta 22 and I tried this with the he 6. man what an upgrade over the lyr on sound quality. the beta 22 sound quality has made a more considerable jump with the cables. and it is the first time I am trying the beta 22 with the he 6 and It drives them  very good. although I wish I had higher gain than 5. I bought the beta 22 a couple of months ago used from the first owner. if I knew how to change gain on this thing I would put it at 8 at least. I listen mainly with he 500, he 6 and hd 800 anyways.

 

[ValeTudoGuy]

In my experience, Speakers and Source material make the biggest difference. I don't buy into CD players having (A Sound) so long as the unit is sufficient to put out a reasonable digital signal to the DAC (internal or external) you will get a good sound on good speakers.
The amp should be sufficient to drive the speakers, but again as long as it produces sufficient power without clipping your speakers can do their job of replicating lovely sounds.
Lossless digital is lossless digital is lossless digital Ad Infinitum, IMO.
Speaker wire has to be at least a minimum gague for a given length of cable, beyond that, marketing comes into play. OFC is horse crap.... 99% of consumer grade copper is sufficiently low enough in oxygen to be considered Oxygen Free by trade laws. I shelled out for silver cables and tbh can't tell them from my standard copper cables.
Here is a test, get a hold of a few meters of 14 AWG reasonably expensive speaker cable.... Anything you like. Then go to your local DIY shop and get a few meters of 14 AWG Power Cord... Get a couple friends to do a double blind test with you, or just be brutally honest. I bet you can't tell the expensive cable. I couldn't and neither can anyone I have ever seen do a blind test.

So to sum up, as long as your digital source file is good (Analogue e.g. Vinyl, Reel to Reel etc is a whole other story.) and the rest of your chain is not total rubbish (read, not fit for purpose.) your speakers are the only things that will make a !*!HUGE!*! difference.

 

[ChicagoNB]

I'm going to agree with the Attorney.  More expensive does equal better but that doesn't mean "better" is what you will like.  All of this audiophile stuff is hugely dependent on personal tast and preference.  If it wasn't, this website would have put Apple out of business years ago for "poor sounding", limited capability crap players.  Stats are great to look at for a start but I would find a reviewer that has reviewed your equipment and if you agree or disagree with thier review and go from there as a starting point.  You can put a Bose stereo system in a Yugo but the lack of soundproofing and build quality of the Yugo will just undo any and all enhancements the Bose system is trying to put out.  And I"m just using Bose as an example since Bose markets themselves as "the" pinnacle in sound equipment and everyone can relate on some plane with Bose sound.  That being said, there IS something to be said for the phrase, "you get what you pay for."  I know that doesn't help you but, IMHO, it's the best answer you are going to find.  If it weren't the case, there would be no competition as someone could/would build THE best and nothing else would purchased or used by the head-fi community.

 

[sceleratus]

OK  My one cent.
 
I was squarely in the hogwash side.  I "thought" all the science was voodoo.
 
I'm a Lyr/Bifrost owner
 
I bought some used LCD2 R1's 5 months ago.  The awesome dude I that sold them to me threw in a 2M Q-cable.  Probably 18 mo old.
I thought it "might" sound a tad better than stock so I use it mostly because of pliability and feel.
 
Next I bought a second set of LCD2 R2 new.  It came with the flat cable.  I hated the sound and went to the R1 round cable and convinced myself it sounded better.  The cans weren't broken in.  So I stuck with the short Q when I could use it.  I've been fine with it.  I haven't done much A/B against the Audeze cables.
 
TODAY.  I received some very nice valves I purchased from another great H-Fr'.   Without asking he thru in some Moon dragon cables.  They are black.  I hadn't thought about cables for months.
 
I have a rule of thumb...  If an upgrade doesn't smack you in the face forget it.  It shouldn't be "I kinda think this might be better"  Nope, has to hit you.  I'm a pretty technical guy.  Some electronic, no metallurgy.  I can't believe it... This cable ..... is more fun to listen to.  This is compared to the Q.  I went back and forth a couple times.  To me it defies logic.  Don't hit me with the psychological expectations, wanting it to be better stuff.  I know what I'm hearing.  And I do NOT want to drop $300 on "A Cable"  I could never see me doing that.
 
So fancy voodoo cable makers just stuck a pin in my doll.

 

[Hi Rez]

Quote:

 To me it defies logic.  

Did anyone ever say this passion was logical?  Similar story.  Long time cable skeptic.  After recently upgrading my home system decided to take home some loaner cables just to see if I could tell any differences between them and my inexpensive wires.  Big mistake....

 

[sceleratus]

Ya don't have a logic attack.
So if I'm dumb enough to spend $300 on 50 year old tubes.... Why not wire?

 

[Lorspeaker]

i was never a skeptic nor a believer when i first started,
just pure ignorance when i walked into a hifi shop with a fren...
and the salesman proceeded to swap a range of cables on the PMC speakers my fren was interested in. 
He ended up buying a 500bucks cable to go with his set of PMC. 
I could definitely hear the difference as the cables went uppp the ladder$$$$..on my rookie audition...as a bystander.

 
when i first came to HEADFI forum, its a cultural shock to me there are skeptics around thumping down the idea.
i tot everyone hears a difference...i tot its a given...lol.
Now i have come to accept that some CANT hear a diff...by nature..
some might have setups that are so optimised/uderoptimised tat cables wont make a diff....
i have reached a peace within, and accepted that state of being...
everyone lives within his TRUTHs...

 
=====================================================
Anyway, lately i just bought an inexpensive usbcable that made a BIGGGG impact on my system...
LIVE LIKE sound when i plugged it in.. your mileage might differ. 
its from CABLEDYNE, check it out if u are looking for one. 123bucks for a two feet bang...i highly recommend it. 
http://www.cabledyne.com/usb-cable.html

 

[PredatorZ]

From reading the post in similar forums, there appears to me a common theme, those that believe that better quality cables can make improvements in the sound of your system, especially when hi quality kit is used. The other extreme is the camp that believes there is no way in hell a cable would ever make a difference, but loves to alter the sound of they're systems with all kinds of EQ. Both camps are entrenched, why the EQ freaks just can't let others enjoy they're systems without slandering cables, siting psychic acoustic studies and placebo... over and over. EQ freaks, many sound engineers (go figure, they love messing up a perfect recording with compression and heavy EQ). Ok, ready to be flamed, always enjoy a bit of baiting to see what crawls out from under the rocks, to much fun, But seriously I could care less one way or another as far as convincing others to believe like I do.
 

 

[sceleratus]

Whoa!
Easy there.
Trying to be diplomatic....
They're just folks with a different opinion.

Can't be sure they EQ either. These cable and HD threads never have a good outcome.
I'm very sorry I posted here. I should know better.

 

[PredatorZ]

I hope this is all in fun, absolutely nothing personal in what I was trying to imply, infer or suggest. I have been flamed heavily for making a statement about cables and it seemed very personal at the time. Audio and our love of gadgets and tech can be a very passionate thing. Understandably, some are very defensive in upholding they're beliefs, can't fault someone for being passionate, but its also reasonable to expect others to try and be nice. I was being a bit facetious, for that I apologize. Treat others like you would like to be treated, in that I failed.
Cheers

 

[ValeTudoGuy]

i was never a skeptic nor a believer when i first started,
just pure ignorance when i walked into a hifi shop with a fren...
and the salesman proceeded to swap a range of cables on the PMC speakers my fren was interested in. 
He ended up buying a 500bucks cable to go with his set of PMC. 
I could definitely hear the difference as the cables went uppp the ladder$$$$..on my rookie audition...as a bystander.
:eek:

when i first came to HEADFI forum, its a cultural shock to me there are skeptics around thumping down the idea.
i tot everyone hears a difference...i tot its a given...lol.
Now i have come to accept that some CANT hear a diff...by nature..
some might have setups that are so optimised/uderoptimised tat cables wont make a diff....
i have reached a peace within, and accepted that state of being...
everyone lives within his TRUTHs...


=====================================================
Anyway, lately i just bought an inexpensive usbcable that made a BIGGGG impact on my system...
LIVE LIKE sound when i plugged it in.. your mileage might differ. 
its from CABLEDYNE, check it out if u are looking for one. 123bucks for a two feet bang...i highly recommend it. 
http://www.cabledyne.com/usb-cable.html

And I suppose the sales guy was doing the changing of the cables?...............

P.s I'm glad your happy with your USB cable, I just wonder how you think it has an affect on the integrity of the data stream when bog standard cheap USB cables are capable of maintaining integrity of much more complex data than audio....... USB cable "Sound"......... Complete, total and utter Hocus Pocus!

From reading the post in similar forums, there appears to me a common theme, those that believe that better quality cables can make improvements in the sound of your system, especially when hi quality kit is used. The other extreme is the camp that believes there is no way in hell a cable would ever make a difference, but loves to alter the sound of they're systems with all kinds of EQ. Both camps are entrenched, why the EQ freaks just can't let others enjoy they're systems without slandering cables, siting psychic acoustic studies and placebo... over and over. EQ freaks, many sound engineers (go figure, they love messing up a perfect recording with compression and heavy EQ). Ok, ready to be flamed, always enjoy a bit of baiting to see what crawls out from under the rocks, to much fun, But seriously I could care less one way or another as far as convincing others to believe like I do.

 

In all fairness, this type of poster exists on both sides of the camp.

For clarity, I don't Use EQ, I'm not a sound tech, I used to buy expensive cables because hey you spend 5-15% total system cost on cables don't you?..... Um no, I now spend 5-15% more on speakers and get a certain and un debatable upgrade in quality.

P.s. Also not trying to bait anybody, if you like the (Sound) of your cables then good for you. It's your system and your money. I'm just trying to put across that there is another option.
As ever, LISTEN before you buy and please please please at least consider what that extra cash outlay could do for the major components of your system before you blindly sink it into cables..... I suppose I would liken it to paying for high octane fuel when you car engine could still do with a tune up (I know which would improve car performance.)

I hope there's no hard feelings (don't see why there would be.) Now go enjoy your audio gear!

 

[Lorspeaker]

Quote:

And I suppose the sales guy was doing the changing of the cables?...............

P.s I'm glad your happy with your USB cable, I just wonder how you think it has an affect on the integrity of the data stream when bog standard cheap USB cables are capable of maintaining integrity of much more complex data than audio....... USB cable "Sound"......... Complete, total and utter Hocus Pocus!
In all fairness, this type of poster exists on both sides of the camp.


I hope there's no hard feelings (don't see why there would be.) Now go enjoy your audio gear!

 
well, there were only 3 of us, within a listening room, a few diff colored powercords.... yellow, green, red, black thin, black thick....my fren took the black thick cable. 

 
on the usb, this cabledyne is a gem addition to my setup...
now listening to ....
 

 
mountain fresh Tune Up....

 

[PredatorZ]

I could use a USB like that, only with a mini plug at the other end to go into my Predator, I didn't see an option like that, maybe if I contact them. Thanks for the link.
 

 

[TheAttorney]

Quote:

 and please please please at least consider what that extra cash outlay could do for the major components of your system before you blindly sink it into cables.....

 
There's a tipping point where this question needs to be asked the other way round. When you're starting out in hifi, and each of your main components costs say a couple of hundred bucks, then $1k spent on cables would be really stupid.
 
But say you've got a high end system where each main component costs $10k, but with stock cables. And you want the best bang from the $1k you have to spend. Then you'd be crazy IMO to not spend that on carefully chosen cables, compared to say replacing your $10k amp with an $11k amp.
 
Most headfiers probably have equipment values somewhere in between these extremes, and therein lies the fun, or maybe frustration, in deciding what is the next change that will give the best improvement in SQ.
 
After years of being a skeptic, and forever being surprised at what the best bang for buck turned out to be at various stages of my journey, I've given up trying to apply scientific logic to any decision - I now treat every single new candidate as a black box, whether it's a headphone, cable, tube, fuse etc. Each item is treated as a black box that is judged purely on whether I could get better SQ if I bought a different black box for the same outlay. If a $1k fuse gave me better SQ than a $1k headphones, then I'd buy the fuse (on reflection, even I would struggle to come to terms with that particular example

).