Best Set for Judging EDM Tracks? DT 880 vs 990 vs Others? Echo Audiofire 4 as a DAC/AMP?
Jan 2, 2017 at 5:17 PM Post #16 of 27

akg fanboy

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Thank you for this recommendation.  I just ordered it on Amazon.  I definitely see it has got it's cheap design flaws, but for a temporary, and powerful amp, with easily changeable tubes, I think it's perfect for just being able to power some of the hi-fi headphones properly.  As I'm mainly trying to avoid judging any of these headphones unfairly by not powering them properly, since I'm now back to choosing between headphones.
 
Any recommendations on custom tubes?  I think the default should be fine to start, but some people are really tearing the stock tubes apart.  Something that retains clarity and detail, but still has some warmth to help with the Beyer highs, and perhaps make the headphones more balanced (which I think is why we discussed getting a hybrid amp to begin with).
 
Thank you for this, and fortunately the game isn't over yet, with me being able to return the T90s to Amazon.  I'm really quite close to pulling the trigger on the DT1770.  I've read up quite a bit on it, and I see your point is valid.  It appears to be a much better fit for my needs, and now I have the T90 as reference of what "bright" really means in a Beyer pair of headphones.  I think there's a chance even the DT 1770  is still too bright, but I think now that I'm adjusting, plus with a solid tube amp, and that it was generally made much more balanced than the T90, I think these would work really well.  Plus I'm salivating at the reviews about this can's low end..
 
Any additional thoughts?  I was also thinking about the DT1990, but it appears I'm just throwing away money at that point, since it's a new pair, and probably has minuscule benefits.
 
The current game plan, is to buy the DT 1770, and another pair closer to what DJ the Rocket is saying (probably PSB M4U 1), and then just return one of those and the T90.
 
 
And finally, thank you for this solid write up.   I will definitely come back to this for future reference, but for now, the standout piece is the PSB M4U 1.  I read about it and it seems really solid.
 
Any thoughts on the new wirecutter winner? http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-400-over-ear-headphones/ They rave almost (ridiculously) highly about the Oppo Pm3s, so I'm curious if you tried them.  But regardless, for that "lower budget, get the job done, EDM" preference, I think i'll pull the trigger and just try the PSBs.
 
PS:  I busted out my A&H DB4 Mixer to use as a temporary DAC now for headphone testing.  It's easy for me to forget sometimes, as it's a DJ mixer first.  But I can almost assuredly say, that the soundcard in this mixer is no slouch, and probably top notch (but not ridiculously hi-fi, mind you), so I should be covered in the DAC area for now. Take a look if you like http://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/xonedb4/ I'm going to try to find out what quality is actually inside though, by contacting them perhaps, as I have yet to find a good answer online.
 
 
 
Great, so I've now dumped an absurd amount of hours into this site since beginning this new headphone journey lol, but I can't go back now.  I think I'm close.  Any other recommendations are appreciated in the mean time.  In the next couple days, I intend to buy the DT 1770 and PSB M4U 1 for testing.  So please get me feedback soon if possible.
 
Thanks guys!! I would be so lost otherwise haha. 

The isolation on the dt1770 is really superb compared to any other closed back I have tried, and they are pretty comfortable (I can wear them for 3-4 hours). The bass response is really fantastic, and I prefer them over my hd700 and he560 if I need a bass punch. The bass is still very clean and does not present any muddiness which is very important for congestion free sound. The soundstage is pretty wide for a closed back, one of the widest I'd heard. The treble still does have a slight sparkle as is any beyer headphone, but much less of a degree compared to the t90
 
Jan 3, 2017 at 12:36 AM Post #17 of 27

Zendro

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  The isolation on the dt1770 is really superb compared to any other closed back I have tried, and they are pretty comfortable (I can wear them for 3-4 hours). The bass response is really fantastic, and I prefer them over my hd700 and he560 if I need a bass punch. The bass is still very clean and does not present any muddiness which is very important for congestion free sound. The soundstage is pretty wide for a closed back, one of the widest I'd heard. The treble still does have a slight sparkle as is any beyer headphone, but much less of a degree compared to the t90

Great, thanks for that.  Still digging pretty deep into reviews, thought I'm probably starting to go in circles at this point.  Any comments on a recessed mid range?  I hear it doesn't really push forward much, and so vocals and such don't have a big impact.  I'm also hearing there's mods to remedy this though.    (This is a pretty small part, but would love to get your thoughts while I can). 
 
Edit:  I see you already put in quite a bit of work in the official DT-1770 thread, so I'll try to reference that more as well.  God, this site is a death trap for sucking up time lol
 
Jan 3, 2017 at 1:13 AM Post #18 of 27

akg fanboy

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  Great, thanks for that.  Still digging pretty deep into reviews, thought I'm probably starting to go in circles at this point.  Any comments on a recessed mid range?  I hear it doesn't really push forward much, and so vocals and such don't have a big impact.  I'm also hearing there's mods to remedy this though.    (This is a pretty small part, but would love to get your thoughts while I can). 
 
Edit:  I see you already put in quite a bit of work in the official DT-1770 thread, so I'll try to reference that more as well.  God, this site is a death trap for sucking up time lol

The dt1770 is a very weird and unique headphone in the midrange for me. The headphone is most definitely u shaped so the mids are not exactly a strong point, but the t90 doesn't exactly have the best mids either. Although vocals did not have as much body, unlike other headphones with a withdrawn midrange, the vocals did not appear to be further back, instead they just had a different tonality with less body. I would be careful of picking up a used one with a low serial number though as earlier versions did have bass rattle issues when presenting the sub bass frequencies.
I understand that headfi threads are kind of cluttered and can be a pain for reading every page, been through it myself lol
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 12:17 AM Post #19 of 27

Zendro

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Thanks AKG,
 
I bought a DT 1770 and its shipping over, got it new for $430.  I withheld buying the PSB M4U 1s for now, for the clear $$ budget overshot I'm already in.
 
I think I got in way over my head.  With all the hours spent researching, I could have made some solid progress on the music front.  Sigh, hi-fi life is more complicated than I thought. 
blink.gif

 
 
I got the Bravo Ocean coming in, and a custom tube on Friday, along with the DT 1770.  Then, I'm going to hook them up and the T90s to my DB4 mixer DAC, and then compare heavily over the weekend (while trying to allow for burn in).  And i'll maybe throw my ATH-M50 in for reference.
 
If i'm not impressed, or see a clear winner, I'm going to return both and be done with it lol, though I'd probably still buy the PSB M4U 1 to try out in the next week or two depending on the results.  That seems like a low price and low commitment choice (no frickin amps to deal with).
 
I'm going to really frickin try to love these DT 1770s, so I hope that works out.  At $430, they got some explaining to do. 
cool.gif
 
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 2:56 AM Post #20 of 27

akg fanboy

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  Thanks AKG,
 
I bought a DT 1770 and its shipping over, got it new for $430.  I withheld buying the PSB M4U 1s for now, for the clear $$ budget overshot I'm already in.
 
I think I got in way over my head.  With all the hours spent researching, I could have made some solid progress on the music front.  Sigh, hi-fi life is more complicated than I thought. 
blink.gif

 
 
I got the Bravo Ocean coming in, and a custom tube on Friday, along with the DT 1770.  Then, I'm going to hook them up and the T90s to my DB4 mixer DAC, and then compare heavily over the weekend (while trying to allow for burn in).  And i'll maybe throw my ATH-M50 in for reference.
 
If i'm not impressed, or see a clear winner, I'm going to return both and be done with it lol, though I'd probably still buy the PSB M4U 1 to try out in the next week or two depending on the results.  That seems like a low price and low commitment choice (no frickin amps to deal with).
 
I'm going to really frickin try to love these DT 1770s, so I hope that works out.  At $430, they got some explaining to do. 
cool.gif
 

Yeah the whole headphone thing requires tons of time and research or else you're gonna either get a headphone you don't end up liking or end up compromising your options.
Cool, I hope you enjoy them because $430 is definitely a lot of explaining to do if you don't like them. But I'm sure you will and the tubes should help a little if you find them a little bright.
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 4:40 AM Post #21 of 27

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This is why we have engineers in studios! It's all damn confusing!
 
People talking about the mids being recessed, or the bass being a little too loud. Something overshadowing another part of the track, tube amps versus other amps. Open versus closed headphones, semi-open headphones and then how there's no such thing. Headphone companies claiming certain models are better for studio use, but then finding out that this is just a way to market rather than being actual fact. And, that there's no such thing as a studio headphone. Well, I guess a flat headphone...
 
Best definition of mids, highs and lows.
 
well highs mean high powered bass, BOMM i mean BOOM, and mids mean the middle of the song, "man these headphones have great mids" = "these headphones make the middle of the song sound great" and lows are when the headphone stops satisfying you and you don't have enough money for a new pair, those are the lows.'
 
And then, there's also this.
 
http://bit.ly/2iyZUjM
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 11:30 AM Post #22 of 27

akg fanboy

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This is why we have engineers in studios! It's all damn confusing!

People talking about the mids being recessed, or the bass being a little too loud. Something overshadowing another part of the track, tube amps versus other amps. Open versus closed headphones, semi-open headphones and then how there's no such thing. Headphone companies claiming certain models are better for studio use, but then finding out that this is just a way to market rather than being actual fact. And, that there's no such thing as a studio headphone. Well, I guess a flat headphone...

Best definition of mids, highs and lows.

well highs mean high powered bass, BOMM i mean BOOM, and mids mean the middle of the song, "man these headphones have great mids" = "these headphones make the middle of the song sound great" and lows are when the headphone stops satisfying you and you don't have enough money for a new pair, those are the lows.'

And then, there's also this.

http://bit.ly/2iyZUjM


There is a definition of flat, user bias has nothing to do with flat not existing, flat is by all means objective. People here like to use the term "natural" which is the real word with no meaning and heavily influenced by user bias. You really have no idea what highs mids lows mean, educate yourself first before spreading false information
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 8:59 PM Post #23 of 27

PolishPrince

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There is a definition of flat, user bias has nothing to do with flat not existing, flat is by all means objective. People here like to use the term "natural" which is the real word with no meaning and heavily influenced by user bias. You really have no idea what highs mids lows mean, educate yourself first before spreading false information

 
I was being sarcastic, and what false information am I spreading lol?
 
Your explanation didn't really clear anything up anyway, if anything it's just going to confuse people more.
 
Jan 4, 2017 at 11:10 PM Post #24 of 27

akg fanboy

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I was being sarcastic, and what false information am I spreading lol?
 
Your explanation didn't really clear anything up anyway, if anything it's just going to confuse people more.

The whole bass, mids, highs thing. You say it was in the name of sarcasm, now you're questioning what false information you said... 
Also my explanation did not complicate anything, I did exactly what you just said; explain and clarify the terms "audiophiles" use and blatantly make up for themselves. Flat is objective, "natural" is a made up word unlike flat which you claimed. If anything, it would be you that caused confusion
 
Jan 6, 2017 at 5:57 PM Post #25 of 27

almoskosz

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I personally really don't like beyerdynamic sound. As I see, you want to produce music too. This rules out all, and there is ONLY ONE choice, trust me. You have to buy the Sennheiser HD600, Anything else for production is just worse. These cans are the sole kings of neutrality.
 
Jan 7, 2017 at 3:31 PM Post #26 of 27

Zendro

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Haha, for some reason, I didn't get notified between these recent posts between AKG & Polish.
 
Anyways! Got my DT-1770, and now we're talking!
 
Still got work to do with burn in, on both the headphones, the amp, and the tube itself, as the sound continues to change quite a bit.   That said, I have had a few tracks shine already, and the bass is definitely more what I'm looking for, AND the frickin treble is atleast normal.
 
I still find it fatiguing in some regards, but it definitely feels to be for different reason than the T90.  Just need to be careful with the volume I suppose.  I wouldn't be suprised if people go deaf with hi-fi cans in general, as it's a lot of artificial and powerful sound directed straight at your ears.
 
Anyways, the point is, I can see these headphones actually working out, which is a good start.  I need another week or so to really reach any meaningful conclusions I would think. 
 
Just going to replace the stock tube on my amp after this post.   Will update again of course with more established opinions.
 
  I personally really don't like beyerdynamic sound. As I see, you want to produce music too. This rules out all, and there is ONLY ONE choice, trust me. You have to buy the Sennheiser HD600, Anything else for production is just worse. These cans are the sole kings of neutrality.

 
Thanks for this.  Makes sense.  There is a chance the BD brand is just too bright or something for me, but it does seem like the DT 1770s are a clear step away from their traditional sound, which is also the reason that they may end up working out for me.  Every trying the 1770s or 1990s almos?  
 
Anyways, will definitely keep that in mind.  My use is more EDM music collection for now, but will get into producing again in the future.  I've heard too many good things to not add a Sennheiser to my collection, and from the characteristics, it sounds like they would make good complimentary headphones to a set of BDs.
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 9:20 AM Post #27 of 27

almoskosz

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I could agree with the 1770, although it was long ago, I recall it having a nice sound signature, balanced and neutral overall, with a bit emphasis on treble. Might I advice an audition, if you are going to be using them for content creation? At that point the hassle would be worth it, and you could make a better decision. Just do not let yourself be fooled by an excited sound, what you want is neutrality!
 

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