[JaZZ]

JahJahBinks...

... I'd like to straighten out some things.

If you could live with an open design, you won't find a better headphone under $200 than the HD 580 – even without an amp. I's been said that it imperatively needs an amp. That's not quite true. Technically speaking, there's absolutely no need for a separate amp, additional to the one that's already built in in your soundcard, your portable device or your receiver... (well: what exactly is it?). The HD 580's 300 ohm are even an uncritical value for average built-in headphone amps, except for one criterion: efficiency or power reserve respectively. It depends very much on the actual device – you may be lucky that there's enough juice, or you don't listen too loud anyway...

I would say there's a very good chance that you'll have no problems at all in this regard – the HD 580's sensitivity is quite good, apart from the high impedance. So it suits my SB Live Platinum HP jack well, and the music is quite enjoyable this way. You really hear the HD 580's superiority over mediocre headphones even with such a «crappy» source. But one thing is true: it's one of the phones that gain very much if you have a good amp to drive it with. And it's not the «juice» that makes the good sound, but solely the amp's sonic character, the synergy it makes between it and the headphone, maybe additionally its output impedance, though this one is slightly overrated: e.g., my HD 600/EMP combo – the latter with about 120 ohm output impedance – is an ideal match.

But the HD 580 is also very revealing (though some say it's veiled itself...

). It will show all the shortcomings of your source, too. So be warned: there could emerge the want to upgrade the latter...

JaZZ

 

[Guyferd]

I'm with flasken on this.
The beyer dt250-80 to my ears are simply much better than the hd280pro. The dt250-80 has sweet midrange and that's where the vocal lies. Pop music sounds good on it.
The hd580 is the best senn under $150 and even $200 but they are open and also requires an amp.So that is out of choice, unless you want to stretch your budget further...
IMO sennheisers doesn't really have many good sounding closed can. hd280 sounds ok but they are dork looking in my eyes.
Beyers do have a lot of great closed cans though.If closed cans are what you are after, try looking at some beyers under $150.
RIght now I can only recommend dt250-80 coz it seems the most suitable for your case.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

«...requires an amp...»

...endless dull litany

 

[ablaze]

how about the ATs? the A900 is $199..well, over budget I guess. or the A700/500s? ATs make pretty sweet closed cans from what I hear

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally posted by Eagle_Driver And if I follow your logic, I might as well use cheap Walkman stock headphones (you know, the ones bundled for free with a Walkman) for unamped use on even home components.

That's not what I meant and you know it! You would think a moderator would have more sense than to thread crap and flame bait in such a way.

I don't know what your problem is with me but I suggest you keep it out of JahJahbinks' thread and PM me instead of thread crapping to try and make me look bad.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Okay, elnero; I've removed my two posts in this thread due to your objection.

I'm going to get this back on topic:

JahJahBlinks, in your price range, there aren't any closed Sennheisers that are any better than the HD 280 Pro's. (And yeah, I'm talking about actual street prices, not MSRP's.) The EH-22## series of Sennheisers generally aren't worth the bucks (though Guyferd may disagree with me on this - he liked the EH 2270 more than he did the HD 280 Pro). And the HD 2#2 series of closed Sennheisers (HD 202, HD 212 Pro) have a bit too much bass - but then they typically sell for less than $50.

And the Sennheisers that even come close to outperforming the HD 280 Pro's in the ~$150 price range are all open-back, especially the HD 580 that strongly recommends an amp for the best performance.

 

[scottder]

Well, after having my HD280's for a few days (most of which have been spend burning in), I can say they are a great set of cans. Not the can of choice if yer a Bass Head, but nicely detailed. Some people find the "clamp" feel of them uncomfrotable, but I think it accounts for a lot of their isolation. I was listening to some classical MP3s this morning and they sounded great.

My only suggestion...don't use Amazon's free shipping option...takes forever.

Scott

PS - anyone done any simple mods (like pads) on the 280's?

 

[DarkWolf]

I am probbaly going to get a pair of 590s. I admitedly haven't tried the 580/600 but I have tried the 590 and I liked them quite well even under much less than ideal conditions. (Tweeter store.) From most everything I've read about the difference between the 590 and the 580 or 600, it seems like the 590s are better suited to my taste. They are apparently less laid back and exibit more energy, rather than an emphasis on smooth listening. They also have lower impeidance than the 580 and 600 as well as being quite efficient otherwise, so they should suffer less from use witout an amp. You can get them for $150, If you are ordering enough stuff from Jan at Meier Audio you can get them down to $150, or you can use one of the ebay shops. Obviously, the ebay shops are less preferable to Meier Audio, but since you're not ording anything else they'd be $175 there. The 580s can be had from www.newegg.com for $131 shipped when they are in stock. This might be the best thing for you. I couldn't see spending an extra $20-50 to get 590s unless you tried them side by side and liked the 590s that much better.. Which you may or may not. The chances of you buying the 580s from newegg (which is an exelent vondor) and regretting it seem very slim. At that price I should think you could consider it a "safe buy" if nothing else jumps out at you. Have fun!

 

[JahJahBinks]

Suppose <100Ohm is a safe bet for using w/o amp, then I think if I change my question to what are the best cans that have impedance less than 100 Ohms, regardless of price, open or closed (no in ear type like Ety), then what are other choices besides Beyer DT250-80 and Sen 280Pro, if any?

Gotta work hard on 'homework', get more info through research.
=)

 

[DarkWolf]

Well, the 590s have 120 ohm and seemed to work pretty well out of a discman. Well enough that I want a pair. As has been said, impeidance alone isn't always a good way to tell how much power a set of phones needs. A lot of people use the 580s with no amp out of portables and cmputers and like them a lot. They appear good enough to be quite enjoyable even if they're not at their best. If you still want closed senns check out the 280s I suppose.

 

[Guyferd]

Quote:

Originally posted by Eagle_Driver (And yeah, I'm talking about actual street prices, not MSRP's.) The EH-22## series of Sennheisers generally aren't worth the bucks (though Guyferd may disagree with me on this - he liked the EH 2270 more than he did the HD 280 Pro).

Lol... yeah I do.I guess I am the only one in this board who likes the can

.Not that I don't like the hd280pro.. Sonically they sound slightly better than the eh2270.. however the comfort aren't even up to par to the 2270.Also my girl friend will laugh at me if they see me wearing a dorky looking phones

...

I think for closed phones Audio Technicas are hard to beat in terms of design and sound. Beyer have very comfy phones but slightly lacking to AT in terms of design.Unfortunately sennheiser is last in the race.Bad sounding closed phones(generally) and quite bad looking

They better stick to open air

 

[yfei]

I have both 580 and 280, and don't have an amp yet. The volum is not a problem at all for either my laptop's sound card or Sony CD Player (not portable). For sound, even without an amp, 580 easily defeat 280 from almost all aspects. More detailed highs, much natural sound, much larger soundstage. 280 sounds thin and plastic.

Compared to 580, good things about 280 are: 1) it's bass is tighter and more punchy, bass can go lower, high can go higher. I can easily hear <20Hz and >16kHz generated signals using 280, but not as easy if use 580. - but all those maybe because I don't have a amp yet. 2) 280 can be used in all environments. But I can only fully enjoy 580 at home at night, other wise too much noise will come in.

580's sound and 280's sound are totally different, I feel 580 is more closer to truth (at least for classical music). 280's sound is a little strange and don't have as much details. 580 is suitable for all musics especially classical. But for rock and hip pop sometimes I have more fun with 280 because it is more tight and punchy.

 

[scottder]

I also use mine in a work envoirnment, where the isolation of the 280's is a big plus.

 

[JahJahBinks]

Today I went to an audio store and tried 580 and 600 on my MP3 player. Sound level was good, not loud, when the volume setting was at MAX. Just to give you an idea, by good I mean louder than what I listen to music most the time (while doing homework), but if I really want to fire it up at leisure time, not good. I realize the importance of an amp.

I played some Messiah (@128kbps), I was not impressed at all, sound was average. Probably because there was no amp and the songs were encoded at 128kbps. Most of my songs are MP3s, more at 128kbps than 196kbps, sigh.

Yesterday I went to another audio store, tried 580 and 600, but they were connected to an amp, I asked the guy in the store to fire up a Celine Dion CD, all I could say was HOLY BATMAN!

I finally realized the importance of an amp.

 

[scottder]

Quote:

Originally posted by JahJahBinks Yesterday I went to another audio store, tried 580 and 600, but they were connected to an amp, I asked the guy in the store to fire up a Celine Dion CD, all I could say was HOLY BATMAN! I finally realized the importance of an amp.

Just so we're clear, you ASKED to listen to Celine Dion?

Just kidding