[leon]

I'll have to agree with MacDEF about the amp. In theory you don't even need 3.5+3.5mW at all for volume. Based on the average earbuds' sensitivity, 1.5-2mW will probably deliver all the volume you ears could bear.

But the quality is different. There's something about giving the analog section adequate power that increases the feel-good factor. Not everyone's ears are capable of identifying and/or caring for the difference, but this is Head-Fi, and I personally do prefer the extra oomph (and often better quality).

 

[mackay maus]

I agreee that this is a good sounding (and looking) little unit . I use it with the Sony canal phones when jogging, and the Etys when stationary,

My only complaint is the 40 second shock protection is'nt adequate for running (well, lurching is perhaps a better description.)

M

 

[Odin]

Let's make things simplier, which couple devices should I audition?

 

[leon]

Based on the discussions here, and assuming you can audition them all, I'd say the E75, E900, and the ST880.

The E75 and E900 based on everyone's good words; The ST880 for something non-Sony and you can try out DH effects. Bring along your own equipments for comparison.

 

[MacDEF]

I agree with Leon -- the E75 and E900 are probably Sony's best models, and the Sharp ST880 is supposedly a great model.

 

[spinoh2k1]

well this is head-fi where da extra power is so important, u know wat they say da more power (mw) da better da sound.

But u c ppl u r forgettin where u r listenin 2 ur MD players, 99% of da time u r listen in a very noisy places like on da BUS, TRAIN, STREET, TRAIN stations etc. How can u tell da difference between a 5mw and 3.5mw in terms of sound quality in that enviroment, if u can good on u but i dont think many could.
If it is in a slient enviroment thats a different story.

Well Odin it is up 2 u whether u want da extra power (mw) that u r not goin 2 hear much difference in a noisy enviroment which is where u do most of da listenin i guess.
Or u can go 4 E909 extra battery life, better remote style, its lighter and da sound i 'll say is da same as E900.

 

[Vertigo-1]

I'm actually tempted myself to upgrade to the 909...there is one feature on it I'd like to have, which is the 3 step LEDs for battery life on the main unit (95 has a 7 step LED but the unit is a little thick for my taste ultimately

). I would like a little more prewarning than a one step LED to let me know when the battery is about to die out on the main unit, as I never use the remote, other than to occasionally check up on the battery life.. I personally don't think the power would be an issue to me because of the outdoor environment, and because I only use earphones...MX500s to be exact. Longer battery life would be nice.

Another feature that I rather miss too is the ability to control the Sound feature from the main unit...it's missing on the 900 and 909, and will probably be missing forever in the quest to shrink down the size.

 

[leon]

Quote:

Originally posted by spinoh2k1 well this is head-fi where da extra power is so important, u know wat they say da more power (mw) da better da sound. But u c ppl u r forgettin where u r listenin 2 ur MD players, 99% of da time u r listen in a very noisy places like on da BUS, TRAIN, STREET, TRAIN stations etc. How can u tell da difference between a 5mw and 3.5mw in terms of sound quality in that enviroment, if u can good on u but i dont think many could.

I use closed canalphones, even the ER-4 sometimes, so I don't hear that much background noise. It's always been my personal experience that, if I like how a portable sounds in a quiet room, I'll also like it better outside.

You might be tempted to point out that some places on the streets are just too noisy to hear anything. So why are you using MD and not cassette? The 30-40dB difference in S/N ratio should be negligible?

And, I'd like to argue: if I'm dishing out, say $250US, for a walkman, I expect something pretty damned good. Why can't they do a 0.13-micron ATRAC chip, use higher-torque motors, and use the surplus power for the amp?

I used to think I couldn't tell the difference, but after a month of the MT770, the inadequacy of the Panasonic amp is obvious. Painful, considering I paid the same for the MT770 and each of my Panasonics.

These are very arrogant things to say on my part, but I seemed to have developed that awareness of subtle quality elements just by listening to music so much.

Edit - substantial rephrasing took place.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by spinoh2k1 But u c ppl u r forgettin where u r listenin 2 ur MD players, 99% of da time u r listen in a very noisy places like on da BUS, TRAIN, STREET, TRAIN stations etc. How can u tell da difference between a 5mw and 3.5mw in terms of sound quality in that enviroment, if u can good on u but i dont think many could. If it is in a slient enviroment thats a different story.

1) More power means more volume. While I don't listen loud, many people do, and many people complain that even 5mW isn't enough to play loud enough for them. So 3.5 is clearly going to be too little. If you can't even turn the headphone up loud enough to hear it, why bother?

2) Many people here use good quality headphones that also isolate external noise. With headphones like Etys, you can and will be able to hear the difference in sound quality.

3) Many people *also* use their portables in environments *other* than buses or trains. So better sound would seem to be relevant.

4) If people aren't ever going to be able to hear the difference, as you claim, why bother with MD? Why not just get a junky MP3 player?


Quote:

Or u can go 4 E909 extra battery life, better remote style, its lighter and da sound i 'll say is da same as E900.

Lighter? 7g lighter -- talk about not being able to tell the difference -- and with the E900, those 7g get you a much better built unit. When it comes to portable players, I'll gladly carry 7 more grams (do you realize how *light* 7 grams are?) if it means the unit will be sturdier and will last longer.

Better remote style? They're basically identical.

Extra battery life? Again, talk about not being able to tell the difference. As I said before, once you get over 40 hours of battery life, extra battery life is pretty much marketing glitz. How many people will be away from their charger/AC adapter for over 40 hours of actually using their player?


Sorry to be so harsh, but I just don't like people blindly recommending something just because they own it, and not being able to admit that there is something better out there than what they own. Show me a player that is clearly better than the E900 and I'll recommend it wholeheartedly. But the E909 isn't it. It's an inferior player that is for the most part a step backwards and is hyped only because it's newer.

 

[spinoh2k1]

Quote:

1) More power means more volume. While I don't listen loud, many people do, and many people complain that even 5mW isn't enough to play loud enough for them. So 3.5 is clearly going to be too little. If you can't even turn the headphone up loud enough to hear it, why bother?

Those ppl that listenin 2 that loud r just dead set gooses, and 3.5mw at full blast is very loud.
Plus its way over da safe listin level, y bother wif ppl like that, they will probably get hearin damage soon n e way.
And my point was there is noise around and its hard 2 judge da difference between da 2 (3.5mw and 5mw) in terms of sound quality, not how loud it can go.

Quote:

2) Many people here use good quality headphones that also isolate external noise. With headphones like Etys, you can and will be able to hear the difference in sound quality.

Yes many "here" at head-fi has, u r in la la land mate u go out 2 da street and count how many ppl is usin good quality headphones wif their mdplayers. Come bak 2 reality mate, most ppl use earphone that comes wif there mdplayers.

Quote:

3) Many people *also* use their portables in environments *other* than buses or trains. So better sound would seem to be relevant.

Well thats wat mdplayers was design 4 music on da go.

Quote:

4) If people aren't ever going to be able to hear the difference, as you claim, why bother with MD? Why not just get a junky MP3 player?

Well hav u had da chance 2 compare da 2 side by side i hav and i cant really tell da difference in terms of sound quality, except its a bit louder on da E900 at full blast.
i was usin ex70sl btw.

As 4 better build that is just full of crap its da same thing, E909 is as tough as E900 less weight doesnt mean is crap build. And da E909 remote is way sexier than E900.

Quote:

Extra battery life? Again, talk about not being able to tell the difference. As I said before, once you get over 40 hours of battery life, extra battery life is pretty much marketing glitz. How many people will be away from their charger/AC adapter for over 40 hours of actually using their player?

For battery life is not how long u b away from da charger, its how often u havta charge da battery. The longer the battery life the less often u has to charge the battery.


Also i dont like ppl sayin negative comments about something, when they hav not had da chance of comparing it 2 something similar side by side.

 

[leon]

spinoh2k1,

You made the following comments:

Quote:

Yes many "here" at head-fi has, u r in la la land mate u go out 2 da street and count how many ppl is usin good quality headphones wif their mdplayers. Come bak 2 reality mate, most ppl use earphone that comes wif there mdplayers.

I would like to point out that this forum IS Head-Fi, not MiniDiscussion, and discussions here will have certain tendencies, in this case the attention towards sound quality. That is one of the key reasons for the existence of this forum.

So please don't call us la-la land, and don't go out and count. The reality is that a lot of people use the phones that come with their portables. The reality is ALSO that quite a few of us at this forum care about extracting maximum potential from their portables, and will therefore seek better phones.

If you're coming up with the we-all-use-stock-headphones argument, you might as well not be in this forum, because there's no point for you being here.

I'm not trying to stand behind MacDEF (we disagree on the majority of things), but you're just not being nice anymore.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by spinoh2k1 Well hav u had da chance 2 compare da 2 side by side i hav and i cant really tell da difference in terms of sound quality

Yes, and I can, using decent headphones, even at the same volume. That's what more power gives you -- the ability to drive headphones better, even at the same volume.

Quote:

As 4 better build that is just full of crap its da same thing, E909 is as tough as E900 less weight doesnt mean is crap build.

*Sigh* It's not "full of crap" and I didn't say the E909 is "crap build." What I said is that the E900 is built *better* than the E900. Both are made of magnesium alloy, but the E900's enclosure is *thicker.* Since you've supposedly been able to see them in real life side by side, next time squeeze both and see which one "gives." Twist both and see which one bends. The E909 isn't as sturdy.

Quote:

And da E909 remote is way sexier than E900.

*Way* sexier? As I pointed out earlier, they are basically identical:

Quote:

For battery life is not how long u b away from da charger, its how often u havta charge da battery. The longer the battery life the less often u has to charge the battery.

No, actually it *is* how long you are away from the charger in the real world. If you only use your MD player for eight hours a day, but you come home to the charger every night, eight hours of play time is plenty for you. If you use your MD player at work, and keep your charger at home, maybe you need a 40-hour battery life so that you only have to charge it on weekends. The point is that you only *need* battery life that will last as long as you are away from the charger. Any more is unecessary, logically. So my point stands -- unless you need to be away from some method of charging for over 60 hours or so, the extra battery life of the E909 doesn't make up for its shortcomings.


Quote:

Also i dont like ppl sayin negative comments about something, when they hav not had da chance of comparing it 2 something similar side by side.

Maybe you shouldn't make assumptions about whether or not I *have* seen them.


Quote:

Originally posted by leon MacDEF (we disagree on the majority of things)

Leon, we do?

Seriously, I thought we agreed on quite a bit!

 

[leon]

Yes we do

Let's leave it at that.

 

[spinoh2k1]

Alrite people look u hav made ur points and i hav made my points, just leave it like that and calm down. It start out as a peaceful debate and now is a war of words just chill ppl.

Look we all need 2 meet up and smoke da peace pipe and relax

.

 

[leon]

Hmm, got nothing against smoking good stuff, but if they're gonna make me type like you, then no.