[Andrey2019]

Hi All

I'm looking for a new headphones and will appreciate your help/advice.
I collected a lot of information from head-fi.org forums and it was really helpful to me. I found that there are a lot of experts in audio on this site. But now I have some specific questions that is difficult to solve for me from general product reviews or discussions.

Previously I had FiiO X3 player and Audio-Technica MSR7 headphones (for about 3 years).
I liked sound quality that they have but now I want to do a significant upgrade and buy audio system that has much higher level of quality.

I have already bought FiiO X7 mark 2 player and FiiO A5 amplifier.
Now I need a good headphones with appropriate sound quality. My budget is about 400$ - 800$, and it is flexible.
But I want to get something with really good in terms of value/price ratio. And with sound quality that is much more than MSR7 that I already have. I think there is no sense for me to get something for $300 as I already have MSR7 and want to do a significant upgrade.

My favorite music is rock (examples: Scorpions, Queen) and electronic music (examples: Enigma, Orbital, Crystal Method, Robert Miles) ambient/break beat/acid jazz/instrumental electronica.
I think headphones that are more universal and good for all music genres (like MSR7) are also good. My main goal is to listen rock and electronic music at home.
Secondary target is gaming - but it is not a priority.

Also full size over ear closed headphones will be better for me as previously I had only closed ones and liked them.

Thanks is advance!

 

[Me x3]

More often than not, open back headphones provide the best sound quality. Check Beyerdynamic DT1990PRO and Amiron Home.
Amiron Home is warmer and more easy going, while DT1990PRO is leaner and more analytical. Both open back and very detailed.

 

[Mhog55]

I'll probably get ripped for this, but from my experience, the cost to performance ratio from a 300 dollar can, to a headphone double that price, definitely shows a point of diminishing returns. Perhaps my ears just aren't mature enough, but I don't believe you're getting an extra 300 dollars worth of sound quality.
That being said, the Sennheiser HD 58X performs way beyond it's price. Like the deal of the century in headphones. If you want a closed back and insist on spending 300 dollars, I think the Meze 99 Classics are a worthy investment.

 

[kukkurovaca]

If OP did want $300 recommendations, I would also add T50RP mods into the mix. Modhouse Argon is delightful, and based on reviews it seesm like ZMF Classic and Dekoni Blue are also.

I don't personally have any closed back headphones in the designated price range, but from what I've read, the Mr. Speakers Aeon Flow Closed are probably worth a look.

 

[Andrey2019]

Hi

Thanks for all recommendations/suggestions.

I have decided to listen DT 1990 PRO / Amiron in local shop and probably buy DT 1990 PRO($600). I like how they look and also read a lot reviews about them (where reviewers say that it is a good choice in terms of sound quality).

Maybe indeed I do not need strictly closed headphones and open headphones will be better choice...

I think that I do not need another pair of a $300 headphones. Audio-Technica MSR7($250) that I already have is a good choice too - so no reason to spend money to something similar.

About Mr. Speakers Aeon Flow Closed - interesting, but they are not available in local shops in my country, and I think for me is not a good idea to buy such product without listening it first. So skipping this option.


While searching for product reviews/information I had another question. Just curious...
I'm very interested in opinion of experienced people who has more advanced sound system and advanced knowledge:
Now I have AMP/DAC: FiiO X7 mark 2 and FiiO A5 and I'm not planning to upgrade in the near future. Is there a sense for me to look/try in shop headphones lets say for a $1000?
Or for such system (X7+A5) buying something more advanced/expensive than DT 1990 PRO($600) will not bring significant improvement in quality?

Want to know all possibilities that I have before I did actual purchase.

 

[Me x3]

While searching for product reviews/information I had another question. Just curious...
I'm very interested in opinion of experienced people who has more advanced sound system and advanced knowledge:
Now I have AMP/DAC: FiiO X7 mark 2 and FiiO A5 and I'm not planning to upgrade in the near future. Is there a sense for me to look/try in shop headphones lets say for a $1000?
Or for such system (X7+A5) buying something more advanced/expensive than DT 1990 PRO($600) will not bring significant improvement in quality?

Want to know all possibilities that I have before I did actual purchase.

The headphone is the most important link in your chain and your current setup can drive most headphones in the market with ease.
I like the FiiO AM2A module even more than my A5 (and I like the A5 very much) so check that too.

Keep in mind diminishing returns play a role once you're trying to reach the last 15% of perfomance.
A 4000 dollar desktop setup might sound slightly better than X7 Mark II if you find one with the type of character you enjoy the most.
Same applies to headphones, at this point tuning play a role that's as important (sometimes even more so) than actual sound quality, since they all provide high sound quality.
In that sense you'll find people that prefer DT1990PRO over HD800 or T1, Focal Clear over Utopia, HD600 over HD700 and so on...

If you can try some of the more expensive headphones, do it and find out if any of them is a good fit for you.
More expensive doesn't mean more enjoyable, that's key.

 

[Andrey2019]

Thanks Me x3.
I have a doubt that I could understand what I like most during 1-2 hrs. listening session inside the shop. (Have little experience in this area.) That is why I'm doing large research in internet right now.
Also I do not think that now I know what set up is better for me...

So I think the best solution now will be to try and get some more experience by practice.
My next steps will be:
Try in the shop several different models from different vendors. I picked (all about 600$-700$ local price):
DT 1990 PRO / Amiron (most likely will buy DT 1990)
Sennheiser HD 700
HiFiMan 560
Fostex TH-610

Then buy model that I like most and listen music with it for several months (do some experiments with attachable AMP modules for X7).
After this I think I will have more understanding of what I like (since now for a long time I tried only 1 set-up X3+MSR7).
And afterwards (if I will need something different or more expensive) I will have better understanding of what is on the market is good for me.

 

[Me x3]

Thanks Me x3.
I have a doubt that I could understand what I like most during 1-2 hrs. listening session inside the shop. (Have little experience in this area.) That is why I'm doing large research in internet right now.
Also I do not think that now I know what set up is better for me...

So I think the best solution now will be to try and get some more experience by practice.
My next steps will be:
Try in the shop several different models from different vendors. I picked (all about 600$-700$ local price):
DT 1990 PRO / Amiron (most likely will buy DT 1990)
Sennheiser HD 700
HiFiMan 560
Fostex TH-610

Then buy model that I like most and listen music with it for several months (do some experiments with attachable AMP modules for X7).
After this I think I will have more understanding of what I like (since now for a long time I tried only 1 set-up X3+MSR7).
And afterwards (if I will need something different or more expensive) I will have better understanding of what is on the market is good for me.

Yeah, sure. There's no need to rush, less so as you're already privileged to be able to get your current setup paired with a 600usd headphone.
There's plenty to enjoy and as you know gaining experience takes time.

Just a few tips that might serve you with your listening sessions:

With Beyerdynamics pay special attention to cymbals and metal winds because that's were their character is more evident. If you like them, great.
They sound very realistic with quality recordings and can be just a tad too upfront with regular ones in this region of the spectrum.
Also try to define what type of bass you want comparing the more laid back Amiron Home to the tighter DT1990 PRO (with the analytical pads).

With HD700 focus on treble tonality, if it sounds natural to you, great. That's this headphone's weakest point.
Check if you can connect with your music despite the slightly dry overall balance and how the relatively open and expansive soundstage fit your preferred recordings.

HE560 has flatter bass (no mid-bass bump like most dynamics) so the bass is different as well as the soundstage due to the planar drivers.
Pay special attention to these qualities, bass and soundstage, to find out how you like them. Some people like these planar qualities, some prefer dynamics, you know.

Can't speak for the TH-610.

Best Luck!
Me x3

 

[Andrey2019]

Hi @Me x3
Could you please provide some information for me:
From your description I can see that you have HD800S paired with FiiO X7 Mark II.

I have FiiO X7 Mark II + Fiio A5 amp.
Is this set up (FiiO X7 Mark II + Fiio A5 amp) will work well with Sennheiser HD800 headphones?
Is X7+A5 is enough to see that Sennheiser HD800 have sound of better quality than lets say Sennheiser HD700?

Do I need to purchase additional cables like these to pair HD800 with X7+A5?:
https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-C...rd_wg=5IEL3&psc=1&refRID=SRXK7EN3MJPXZS6JYP1B
https://www.amazon.com/L16-Stereo-A...rd_wg=5IEL3&psc=1&refRID=SRXK7EN3MJPXZS6JYP1B


I followed your advice and decided to not be in a rush and not hurry with purchasing a headphones now.

But did some progress in getting more information:
I have tried AUDIO-TECHNICA R70X($350) (got it from friend). And did not like it.
Also tried for 1 week AUDIO-TECHNICA ATH-SR9($450) and totally dislike it too.
As for me my current AUDIO-TECHNICA msr7 ($250) is better than more expensive ATH-SR9($450) and R70X($350).


It looks like to find sound signature that you like is not an easy task. So maybe it is worth to buy something that I can easily tune to my needs?
Information in reviews and different forums says that Sennheiser HD800 is highly adjustable (with EQ) headphones. And also HD 800 have much more level of quality and technology than my current msr7.
So my thought is: if I want a significant upgrade is it worth to go directly to some of well known (with a lot of good feedback) and adjustable option.
In one local store I can see Sennheiser HD800 cost $300 cheaper than in others in my city. So my thought is to consider this option. (New Sennheiser HD800 will be only $300 more expensive than new HD 700 in local stores).

Thanks for your answers in advance

 

[buke9]

The HD-800 over the 700 for $300 more is a no brainer much better headphone and I own both.
The 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter is the right one yes and Grado also makes one just like it at about the same price have those also.
Haven’t heard them from a X7 so don’t know but I’m sure the A5 will power them fine .

 

[Me x3]

Hi @Me x3
Could you please provide some information for me:
From your description I can see that you have HD800S paired with FiiO X7 Mark II.

I have FiiO X7 Mark II + Fiio A5 amp.
Is this set up (FiiO X7 Mark II + Fiio A5 amp) will work well with Sennheiser HD800 headphones?

Yes, with extra room in terms of power.

Is X7+A5 is enough to see that Sennheiser HD800 have sound of better quality than lets say Sennheiser HD700?

Yes, even a trusty FiiO E10K can show that.

Do I need to purchase additional cables like these to pair HD800 with X7+A5?:
https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-C...rd_wg=5IEL3&psc=1&refRID=SRXK7EN3MJPXZS6JYP1B
https://www.amazon.com/L16-Stereo-A...rd_wg=5IEL3&psc=1&refRID=SRXK7EN3MJPXZS6JYP1B

Yes.

It looks like to find sound signature that you like is not an easy task. So maybe it is worth to buy something that I can easily tune to my needs?
Information in reviews and different forums says that Sennheiser HD800 is highly adjustable (with EQ) headphones.

Not that easy in my experience, and more often than not, ultimate refinement suffers.

And also HD 800 have much more level of quality and technology than my current msr7.

It's a superior headphone, that's for sure.

So my thought is: if I want a significant upgrade is it worth to go directly to some of well known (with a lot of good feedback)

Only you can answer that.
I've owned the Sennheiser HD800 in the past and still own the Sennheiser HD800S.
Most of the times, I use my Beyerdynamic Tesla T1 (1st Gen) and its feedback is not nearly as good...
What most people say or prefer is not of much use in my experience.

 

[DaniRojo]

If I were in your shoes I would likely opt for Grados PS500 or Alessandro Ms Pro. When someone say rock and open back headphones I think about those two. I have the MS1 and they really shine with the proper source.

 

[Svenrolic]

Hi All
* I need a good headphones with appropriate sound quality.
* My budget is about 400$ - 800$, and it is flexible.
* But I want to get something with really good in terms of value/price ratio. With sound quality that is much more than MSR7 that I already have.
* I think there is no sense for me to get something for $300 as I already have MSR7 and want to do a significant upgrade.
* My favorite music is rock (examples: Scorpions, Queen) and electronic music (examples: Enigma, Orbital, Crystal Method, Robert Miles) ambient/break beat/acid jazz/instrumental electronica.
* I think headphones that are more universal and good for all music genres (like MSR7) are also good.
* My main goal is to listen rock and electronic music at home.
* Secondary target is gaming - but it is not a priority.
* Also full size over ear closed headphones will be better for me as previously I had only closed ones and liked them.

Thanks is advance!

Hello to you too. I've separated out individual points I'd like to address in an attempt to provide clearer answers. I hope you don't mind, and this helps you out.

Good headphones that are closed is fair enough, and I think there are a few models you could work with here. The value/price ratio really depends on your budget etc., and that was previously discussed so I won't beat a dead horse here. For rock and electronic music I would usually recommend some HiFimans in this price range, but you appear to prefer closed backs. If you change your mind, please check out the Sundara or something similar. I found most of the HiFiman line-up great for rock & electronic music. Closed headphones that are universally good for most/all genres in your price range would be either the Fostex TH-610, or the Shure 1540. I'd recommend the Fostex for your use case, or the Shure for people who love some emphasis on the female vocals. These would be doable with gaming, but I wouldn't highly recommend it.

With gaming I usually recommend either an AKG K700 series (K712 for all rounder, 701/702 for gaming only), or the Phillips Fidelo X2 for enjoying games with immersion. Both of those are in a lower price bracket, but they've been what I found to be the best for my gaming needs in open headphones. The only closed gaming headphones I usually recommend are things in the Beyerdynamic line-up, as in the DT 770 or Custom Studio headphones.

That said, I've used the ZMF Eikon for gaming and they were great, along with both the other use cases you've presented. If you have a "flexible" budget or some time to save up for what I believe to be a "better" headphone (because this hobby is subjective) I'd highly recommend the Eikon for all use cases in a closed-back. There might be some B stock or used pairs floating around if you search around. ZMF has a presence here as well so maybe you can speak with them in a PM if you're really interested.

Please let me know if I can help with anything else, or if you have any questions about my recommendations.

 

[megabigeye]

I have tried AUDIO-TECHNICA R70X($350) (got it from friend). And did not like it.
Also tried for 1 week AUDIO-TECHNICA ATH-SR9($450) and totally dislike it too.
As for me my current AUDIO-TECHNICA msr7 ($250) is better than more expensive ATH-SR9($450) and R70X($350).


It looks like to find sound signature that you like is not an easy task.

Hi there,
Know that if you're used to the sound of a certain headphone, other headphones can sound off or even worse than what you're used to, even if the new headphone is technically better. My first good pair of headphones were the Sennheiser HD 650 and so that headphone became my reference for what music "should" sound like, and as a result other headphones sounded slightly off to me until I adjusted to them. If the headphones you use most frequently have boosted bass, for instance, other headphones might sound like they're lacking bass, when in fact they're pretty neutral.
So with that in mind, I think Me x3's advice to take your time is good. Try to get used to whatever it is you're listening to before judging it.

Also, in figuring out your preferred signature, listen critically to your own headphones and see if you can figure out what you do and don't like about them. You'll probably get a feel for what you like and dislike as you try more headphones.

All that being said the DT 1990 are amazing for both rock and electronic. They've played well with all other genres I've thrown at them, too. The bass is amazingly fun, and the treble gives a zingy flavor. The only con I see is that the treble might be problematic if you've got a sensitivity to it or if you have a lot of really bright or thin recordings. Personally, I like the treble and have only one or two albums that I don't enjoy with the DT 1990. They're also not flattering to bad recordings, but for me that's kind of part of the charm. Some people want a bigger soundstage, but that's never bothered me.

 

[Svenrolic]

All that being said the DT 1990 are amazing for both rock and electronic.

Have you tried the DT 1770? I enjoy the Beyerdynamic series headphones as well, but I've never tried the DT 1770 so I couldn't personally recommend them just yet. I ask because OP seems to be interested in closed headphones, and those two may be fairly similar.