Best Amp to stick between DAC1-USB and HD-650

[schaqfu]

I'm listening to mostly lossless tracks on my HD-650s through the headphone jack of my DAC1-USB. I think it's a fabulous combination as-is, but I want to upgrade the sound significantly by putting a dedicated amp between them. I only want to purchase something if it will be a big upgrade that will build on the sonic strengths of both the DAC1 and the HD-650s to create strong synergy. As a starting point I was considering the new HeadRoom Ultra Micro Amp with the Max module, but I'm not wedded to that.

So two related questions: 1) will the Ultra Micro be a huge improvement over the already-excellent DAC1 headphone-out; and 2) what other amps should I consider? I only want an amp, not a combination device, and it has to fit on my desk without looking like a VCR or other monstrosity (but no need for portability). Cable upgrades will come later too. Thanks for any suggestions. This community has been good to me before!

 

[majid]

The differences in sonic signature between amps are overrated. If you want to improve the sound, you would do better to upgrade your headphones, e.g. with a Stax Omega IIa. Unless you like the distortion of tube amps, of course, which could probably be simulated with some digital processing.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by schaqfu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm listening to mostly lossless tracks on my HD-650s through the headphone jack of my DAC1-USB. I think it's a fabulous combination as-is, but I want to upgrade the sound significantly by putting a dedicated amp between them. I only want to purchase something if it will be a big upgrade that will build on the sonic strengths of both the DAC1 and the HD-650s to create strong synergy. As a starting point I was considering the new HeadRoom Ultra Micro Amp with the Max module, but I'm not wedded to that. So two related questions: 1) will the Ultra Micro be a huge improvement over the already-excellent DAC1 headphone-out; and 2) what other amps should I consider? I only want an amp, not a combination device, and it has to fit on my desk without looking like a VCR or other monstrosity (but no need for portability). Cable upgrades will come later too. Thanks for any suggestions. This community has been good to me before!

Best bet & cheapest would be to A, just balance the 650's & use the DAC1 XLR outputs. Superior SQ over the DAC1's headphone amp.. or get the Balanced Desktop if you really want a HUGE difference.. To me the DAC1's headphone amp is just 'ok'.. I thought the VHP-1 without the external PS was better overall then the DAC1's headphone amp..It's comparable to amps in the 300.00 dollar range.

 

[RasmusseN]

I am interested in what amp people will recommend to complete the "synergy"

 

[schaqfu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majid /img/forum/go_quote.gif The differences in sonic signature between amps are overrated. If you want to improve the sound, you would do better to upgrade your headphones, e.g. with a Stax Omega IIa. Unless you like the distortion of tube amps, of course, which could probably be simulated with some digital processing.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not going to replace my headphones. Even if it would yield a significant difference, by definition it's at a $400+ disadvantage in the bang-for-buck department vs. adding a new component to the existing equipment because it would cancel out equipment I already own. With only two pieces of equipment, I want my upgrade to be additive, not duplicative. Besides, the Stax look to be way outside the mortal realm of price I'm talking about. Want it to be under $1000, unless there's something within spitting distance of there that's just THAT compelling.

 

[schaqfu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Best bet & cheapest would be to A, just balance the 650's & use the DAC1 XLR outputs. Superior SQ over the DAC1's headphone amp.. or get the Balanced Desktop if you really want a HUGE difference.. To me the DAC1's headphone amp is just 'ok'.. I thought the VHP-1 without the external PS was better overall then the DAC1's headphone amp..It's comparable to amps in the 300.00 dollar range.

Kool Bubba -- about a year ago I was right there with you hounding Elias and Iron_Dreamer (or Iron something) for info on using the balanced outs of the DAC1. I modded a stock HD650 cable to be balanced and have given it extensive listens. I didn't like the difference -- bass and mids sounded more distorted. Then I read Elias' extremely detailed posts debunking the virtues of balanced, and that seemed to coincide with my experience. Suffice it to say, without ruling balanced out for the future, I don't want to go down that path now; I'd rather buy a higher quality output stage in an amp than a lower quality balanced one for the same cost. I am, however, all ears about isolated mono paths or whatever non-grounded solutions are out there.

 

[schaqfu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by schaqfu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Kool Bubba -- about a year ago I was right there with you hounding Elias and Iron_Dreamer (or Iron something) for info on using the balanced outs of the DAC1. I modded a stock HD650 cable to be balanced and have given it extensive listens. I didn't like the difference -- bass and mids sounded more distorted. Then I read Elias' extremely detailed posts debunking the virtues of balanced, and that seemed to coincide with my experience. Suffice it to say, without ruling balanced out for the future, I don't want to go down that path now; I'd rather buy a higher quality output stage in an amp than a lower quality balanced one for the same cost. I am, however, all ears about isolated mono paths or whatever non-grounded solutions are out there.

I do agree with you about the DAC1's headphone amp being in the neighborhood of other solid $300ish amps though. So clearly I'm talking about finding an amp that is significantly improved over any in that category.

 

[schaqfu]

bump -- any ideas?

 

[gregeas]

I have a Lisa XP between my DAC1 and HD650s. This is a nice comb, but I do wish someone would make a balanced head amp with approximately the same form factor as the DAC1.

Maybe you could go for the Lisa with the LLP (dedicated power supply).

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by schaqfu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Kool Bubba -- about a year ago I was right there with you hounding Elias and Iron_Dreamer (or Iron something) for info on using the balanced outs of the DAC1. I modded a stock HD650 cable to be balanced and have given it extensive listens. I didn't like the difference -- bass and mids sounded more distorted. Then I read Elias' extremely detailed posts debunking the virtues of balanced, and that seemed to coincide with my experience. Suffice it to say, without ruling balanced out for the future, I don't want to go down that path now; I'd rather buy a higher quality output stage in an amp than a lower quality balanced one for the same cost. I am, however, all ears about isolated mono paths or whatever non-grounded solutions are out there.

Maybe it was the cable? Depending how well you modded it.

You are in the minority in that regard.. I still believe to get the best out of your 650's you need to balance them.. I don't give much credence to what Elias has to say in regards to balanced headphones, as thats not his specialty . He also said the 650's would sound awful.. Guess me & others like bad sounding cans..

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by schaqfu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I do agree with you about the DAC1's headphone amp being in the neighborhood of other solid $300ish amps though. So clearly I'm talking about finding an amp that is significantly improved over any in that category.

Yeah. I'm looking at getting the HR-2 or HA2.. I still have two single ended headphones..& I'm impressed with the DAC1's amp.. Still might get the balanced desktop..

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majid /img/forum/go_quote.gif The differences in sonic signature between amps are overrated. If you want to improve the sound, you would do better to upgrade your headphones, e.g. with a Stax Omega IIa. Unless you like the distortion of tube amps, of course, which could probably be simulated with some digital processing.

The sonic signature of an amp depends greatly on what it is pushing. Every amp has a different power output and impedance curve. How well those match your headphones makes a lot of difference in how an amp sounds.

Tube sound cannot yet be digitally simulated. A bit of effort has been put into that by guitar amp designers with little success. They would love to market a tube-like amp with the price of solid state. Problem is that there are things tubes can do that solid state cannot. And vice versa, of course. They're not interchangeable.

To the OP, how much are you looking to spend on an amp?

 

[schaqfu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif The sonic signature of an amp depends greatly on what it is pushing. Every amp has a different power output and impedance curve. How well those match your headphones makes a lot of difference in how an amp sounds. Tube sound cannot yet be digitally simulated. A bit of effort has been put into that by guitar amp designers with little success. They would love to market a tube-like amp with the price of solid state. Problem is that there are things tubes can do that solid state cannot. And vice versa, of course. They're not interchangeable. To the OP, how much are you looking to spend on an amp?

I really like a sweet spot of $700-800, which is why I am considering the HeadRoom Ultra Micro Amp. I'm willing to consider anything in the $1000 range though. I'd rather wait a little longer to save up for one if it means having a significant difference over my current experience. I can't emphasize that enough -- I'm already really impressed by the performance I'm getting from the DAC1-USB's built-in headphone amp with my HD650s, so I don't want to purchase anything that won't give a very significant improvement.

Thanks for any ideas.

 

[schaqfu]

Well, so that raises another related question -- assuming a limit of $1000, will I get better sound with my DAC1-HD650 setup by adding a balanced amp or a regular amp, assuming the quality of components in the balanced amp will be commensurately lower?

 

[Hellenback]

I use HD650s and am also looking for an amp to drive them. If I had the clarity and definition of the DAC 1, I would feed it into a
Darkvoice 337. A friend has one and even with an older DAC it sounds just awesome with his 650s. At $700 from "Audiophilechina"
I don't think it can be beat. It IS a big amp though.
Welcome to Audiophilechina
Welcome to Audiophilechina
If you want to go SS balanced I think this would be hard to beat for the money.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f42/balanced-b22-307785/
Balanced B22....... - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio