Bare dielectric wiring, problems?

[Patrick82]

Since I have sliced open the skin of my Valhalla interconnect. Why not slice open the Teflon and mono-filaments too?

What are the weaknesses? Dust, oxidation, heat?

The copper traces on the circuit boards are nude also, and they don't get oxidized? And there is also lot of dust on them. But what about heat? The bottom half of the circuit board paths are touching the green board, does some of the heat get transfered to it?

With a nude conductor in the air, where does the heat go? Does it matter for low current interconnects or only power cords?

I have a tent around the DAC + amp, so there is no dust, but maybe some airflow leaks through.

I also have extra wiring so even if I need to replace the wires once a year I have enough wiring for 8 years.

What about periodically using an Ultrasonic washing machine for the wires?

 

[Marc303]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since I have sliced open the skin of my Valhalla interconnect. Why not slice open the Teflon and mono-filaments too? What are the weaknesses? Dust, oxidation, heat?

why not try slicing your mains cables too while you are feeling bonkers

Quote:

The copper traces on the circuit boards are nude also, and they don't get oxidized? And there is also lot of dust on them. But what about heat? The bottom half of the circuit board paths are touching the green board, does some of the heat get transfered to it?

coated with varnish

Quote:

With a nude conductor in the air, where does the heat go? Does it matter for low current interconnects or only power cords?

ive never discovered any of my cables to be warm.

as for where does the heat go when you slice open a wire - the air

Quote:

I have a tent around the DAC + amp, so there is no dust, but maybe some airflow leaks through.

i hear the lid works well with stopping dust

Quote:

I also have extra wiring so even if I need to replace the wires once a year I have enough wiring for 8 years. What about periodically using an Ultrasonic washing machine for the wires?

then try it on your brain

 

[cotdt]

sounds like a great idea to me!!

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc303 /img/forum/go_quote.gif why not try slicing your mains cables too while you are feeling bonkers

I already sliced the power cords before the interconnect.

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc303 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ive never discovered any of my cables to be warm. as for where does the heat go when you slice open a wire - the air

When electricity runs through a cable it gets hotter...

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif When electricity runs through a cable it gets hotter...

It sure does, cables acts like a resitor and the only way a resistor can get rid of heat is dissapation!

Patrick, teflon is used as insulator and to stop leakage out of the conductor. Every conductor leaks and only teflon keeps it at an absolute minimum. You could however discuss if this physical occurance would be hearble. Most sceptics would say nay, but i would say yes, since most high end cables use teflon specific for that reason as insulator.

Also, valhalla is silverplated copper. The top silver layer could oxidize and get black. I don't know if the infuence of that phenomenon has influence on the sound though.

patrick, i noticed valkyrja cable is getting more expensive every day. LOL. it started at 3.8 dollars a cm, then 4 dollars a cm and it's allready up to 5 dollars a cm!

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif It sure does, cables acts like a resitor and the only way a resistor can get rid of heat is dissapation!

So the Teflon is like a heatsink? What about Dual filament technology that has less contact with the conductor? Then the cables stay warmer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Patrick, teflon is used as insulator and to stop leakage out of the conductor. Every conductor leaks and only teflon keeps it at an absolute minimum. You could however discuss if this physical occurance would be hearble. Most sceptics would say nay, but i would say yes, since most high end cables use teflon specific for that reason as insulator.

What does it leak?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, valhalla is silverplated copper. The top silver layer could oxidize and get black. I don't know if the infuence of that phenomenon has influence on the sound though.

I can see myself 50 years in the future listening to black Valhalla conductors.

 

[dvw]

Now instead of teflon you have air as dielectric. Google air dielectric or air core.

 

[colonelkernel8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What does it leak?

Electrons.

Before you go all out and strip a Valhalla, how about strip a cheaper cable to see if it improves the sound.

 

[Jon118]

^Sounds like a good idea if you want to try this. You could get some serious interference with these, so I would want to try something cheaper. This could be a good idea actually, as far as sound quality goes, but I'm worried your execution may not be great considering some of your previous mods. But I may be wrong.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvw /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now instead of teflon you have air as dielectric. Google air dielectric or air core.

but you are also more vulnrable for RF!

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by colonelkernel8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Electrons. Before you go all out and strip a Valhalla, how about strip a cheaper cable to see if it improves the sound.

Correct, both the core (skineffect, crosstalk etc.) and the insulator leak, but teflon leaks less electrons back into the core, so smearing the sound is less obvious as with other insulators, probably one of the reasons teflon insulated cables sound more detailed?!

yes, telon is used for two things in general;
it can withstand loads of heat; every cable gets hot, especially with AC, alternating current, that's why alot of higher end cables are having thick outer shells to keep the cables cool to the touch. I understand cables can get as hot as 85 celsius and maybe even hotter? Most cables can withstand heat of 150-250 celsius.

And ofcourse to make sure leakage is minimal. So, it is the ideal insulator and heatshield (makes it cool to the touch).


Patrick, be very carefull with this cutting open business. You 're open cable would be very vulnrable to RF and the likes. You can cut it away, but it is harder to put it back, as you know since production of the Nordost cables are quite expensive!

 

[dvw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif but you are also more vulnrable for RF!

You will have RFI either way. Dielectric does not deter RFI, shielding does. The 300 ohm TV cable is a good example of air dielectric.

I of course will not recommend any one to try this for safety reason. It is really easy to short out bare wire. I think Patrick will at least have to tape it with scotch tape or something.

 

[Patrick82]

The Valkyrja speaker cable has the Teflon almost pressing against the conductor, because I can feel the threads when sliding my finger on top of the Teflon. So the gap between Teflon and conductor is smaller than the thread.

With the Valhalla interconnect the threads are inside round Teflon tubes and the gap between conductor and Teflon is much bigger than with Valkyrja.

The threads of Valkyrja are almost half as thin as with Valhalla. So there is less thread contact of the Valkyrja, but the Teflon is much closer.

So the Teflon of the Valhalla interconnect is about 4 times further than with the Valkyrja speaker wire, but it has twice as thick threads touching the conductor.
But the Valkyrja still has more low-level detail. So it's either:

#1) Closer Teflon.
#2) Thinner thread touching the conductor.
#3) Less silver plating depth. Valkyrja = 60 microns, Valhalla = 78 microns.

It still seems like the silver plating is most of the reason. Because more edginess results in less low-level detail. It's the same with all my tweaks.

Valkyrja and Valhalla sound equal overall, they just have a different flavor. Valkyrja is warm and Valhalla is cold. I don't think the Teflon distance and thickness of threads can make such a big difference.

If more low-level detail comes from variable #2 and #3, then a bare Valhalla might be better overall than a Valkyrja in Teflon.

I also wonder if a constant signal running through the conductor slows down oxidation.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Valkyrja speaker cable has the Teflon almost pressing against the conductor, because I can feel the threads when sliding my finger on top of the Teflon. So the gap between Teflon and conductor is smaller than the thread. With the Valhalla interconnect the threads are inside round Teflon tubes and the gap between conductor and Teflon is much bigger than with Valkyrja. The threads of Valkyrja are almost half as thin as with Valhalla. So there is less thread contact of the Valkyrja, but the Teflon is much closer. So the Teflon of the Valhalla interconnect is about 4 times further than with the Valkyrja speaker wire, but it has twice as thick threads touching the conductor. But the Valkyrja still has more low-level detail. So it's either: #1) Closer Teflon. #2) Thinner thread touching the conductor. #3) Less silver plating depth. Valkyrja = 60 microns, Valhalla = 78 microns. It still seems like the silver plating is most of the reason. Because more edginess results in less low-level detail. It's the same with all my tweaks. Valkyrja and Valhalla sound equal overall, they just have a different flavor. Valkyrja is warm and Valhalla is cold. I don't think the Teflon distance and thickness of threads can make such a big difference. If more low-level detail comes from variable #2 and #3, then a bare Valhalla might be better overall than a Valkyrja in Teflon. I also wonder if a constant signal running through the conductor slows down oxidation.

Looking at this, logically it must be the silverplating.

Since most people say copper is warmer sounding and valkyrja has less silver plating and sounds more warm then valhalla; valhalla has thicker silver plating and sounds a bit colder or softer, exactly the sound that most people say about silver, detailed , soft and colder sounding.

Same thing as i noticed during extensive cable tests.

oxidation is a process between oxigene and a surface of a metal. I don't think a signal running trough the signal has any influence on oxidation on the surface of a cable. It will oxidate as fast as with a signal running through.