Bakoon HDA-5210MK4 (and related Bakoon Products/Satri Circuit Laboratory news)

[jjss]

Hello a question to the experts and historians here,

I'm a bit confused of the relationship between "SATRI-IC (Satori IC)", "Bakoon International" and "Enleum". How are they related or they simply are diff entities as of today? In terms of their respective technologies, are they related/inherited/transferred?

Much appreciated some enlightenment ..

 

[paradoxper]

Hello a question to the experts and historians here,

I'm a bit confused of the relationship between "SATRI-IC (Satori IC)", "Bakoon International" and "Enleum". How are they related or they simply are diff entities as of today? In terms of their respective technologies, are they related/inherited/transferred?

Much appreciated some enlightenment ..

Aside from the company shuffling marketing rights, etc they are the same. They employ the SATRI circuit which is their discrete current conveyor.

 

[jjss]

Aside from the company shuffling marketing rights, etc they are the same. They employ the SATRI circuit which is their discrete current conveyor.

Thanks for the response..
Apart from the HDA 5210, I'm also evaluating the Enleum AMP-23R, and would be good if I could learning from those who have experiences in these 2 .. Cheers

 

[Nostoi]

Aside from the company shuffling marketing rights, etc they are the same. They employ the SATRI circuit which is their discrete current conveyor.

I'm not an expert here but doesn't Enleum use a different sort of circuitry now? I was told this by the Japanese distributor of Bakoon:

"Please note that Bakoon Products is original SATRI-IC company who provided SATRI circuit as OEM to Bakoon international in Korea. But no more providing."

This is also worth reading.

As is this for another perspective.

 

[paradoxper]

I'm not an expert here but doesn't Enleum use a different sort of circuitry now? I was told this by the Japanese distributor of Bakoon:

"Please note that Bakoon Products is original SATRI-IC company who provided SATRI circuit as OEM to Bakoon international in Korea. But no more providing."

This is also worth reading.

This is going way into the weeds. The SATRI circuit was contracted between designer Akira and then Soo (whom ran Bakoon International as a 'western' umbrella and later was forced to cease operations until founding Enleum) which lead different product paths.

Today the circuit is called the JET-SATRI under Bakoon Int/Enleum.

 

[Nostoi]

This is going way into the weeds. The SATRI circuit was contracted between designer Akira and then Soo (whom ran Bakoon International as a 'western' umbrella and later was forced to cease operations until founding Enleum) which lead different product paths.

Today the circuit is called the JET-SATRI under Bakoon Int/Enleum.

Got that, but the salient point is that Bakoon Japan no longer provides the latest SATRI-IC to Bakoon International or Enleum, so any products from hereon from these companies are essentially different.

 

[paradoxper]

Got that, but the salient point is that Bakoon Japan no longer provides the latest SATRI-IC to Bakoon International or Enleum, so any products from hereon from these companies are essentially different. This is from an email Akira sent to me :

"The company that sells HPA-21 has registered its company name and circuit name as trademarks without our permission.
Currently, the company and we are in a state of isolation."

They've always been different. Soo lead a product line with his own engineering team for years.

When a importer took over VP of Bakoon Japan he was not in agreement of the fragmentation Bakoon Int brought which he then shut down.

 

[Nostoi]

Hello all, a final but important point of clarification on the Bakoon Japan vs. Bakoon International/Enleum distinction. I received a message from Soo In, the founder of Bakoon International/Enelum on this issue, and he has given me permission to share it. Please read:

"1. The trademark registration of Bakoon was done with Bakoon Japan’s full knowledge and we have won a court case that proves this. As such, we still own trademarks around the world concerning Bakoon, SATRI and alike, including the EU and the US.

2. Though we started with the SATRI-IC, our technologies have evolved beyond that through our own innovations to completely new levels. We simply do not need the SATRI-IC and such, ever since we are on our own.

3. It was not Bakoon Japan that contractually terminated our cooperation. Despite winning the court case, we’ve anyway decided that we are better off on our own. We therefore launched Enleum and moved on, as it just didn’t make sense to support them anymore."

///

Notwithstanding this complex history, clearly Bakoon Japan and Bakoon International/Enleum are both excellent companies with their own individual design, vision, and philosophy - all of which should be celebrated.

 

[jjss]

Hello all, a final but important point of clarification on the Bakoon Japan vs. Bakoon International/Enleum distinction. I received a message from Soo In, the founder of Bakoon International/Enelum on this issue, and he has given me permission to share it. Please read:

"1. The trademark registration of Bakoon was done with Bakoon Japan’s full knowledge and we have won a court case that proves this. As such, we still own trademarks around the world concerning Bakoon, SATRI and alike, including the EU and the US.

2. Though we started with the SATRI-IC, our technologies have evolved beyond that through our own innovations to completely new levels. We simply do not need the SATRI-IC and such, ever since we are on our own.

3. It was not Bakoon Japan that contractually terminated our cooperation. Despite winning the court case, we’ve anyway decided that we are better off on our own. We therefore launched Enleum and moved on, as it just didn’t make sense to support them anymore."

///

Notwithstanding this complex history, clearly Bakoon Japan and Bakoon International/Enleum are both excellent companies with their own individual design, vision, and philosophy - all of which should be celebrated.

Thanks mate

 

[LoveKnight]

Hi everyone. I am looking for a new amplifier for my two headphones Denon D9200 which is an upgrade driver or just another tune from Fostex TH900 driver and Sennheiser HD650, maybe a new planar Final Audio d8000 pro. Searching and reading all the comments and posts about Bakoon amplifiers which pair extremely well or sublime to these headphones so I decide to save my money to purchase one in the near future. However I have one question about this amp. From the English Bakoon website there are two options for this amp. Attenator type: Metal film or Unstrusted winding resistance which is the later option costs more money than the basic first option. May I ask someone who knows about this and explain to me. Thank you.

 

[Nostoi]

Hi everyone. I am looking for a new amplifier for my two headphones Denon D9200 which is an upgrade driver or just another tune from Fostex TH900 driver and Sennheiser HD650, maybe a new planar Final Audio d8000 pro. Searching and reading all the comments and posts about Bakoon amplifiers which pair extremely well or sublime to these headphones so I decide to save my money to purchase one in the near future. However I have one question about this amp. From the English Bakoon website there are two options for this amp. Attenator type: Metal film or Unstrusted winding resistance which is the later option costs more money than the basic first option. May I ask someone who knows about this and explain to me. Thank you.

I believe that @TheMiddleSky might be one of the few people to offer some insight here on the different between attenuator types. Otherwise, I'd suggest dropping Takuhiro Yoshizawa at Exclusive Audio a line (info@exclusive-audio.jp), as he may also know. Please let us know the outcome.

BTW: Final Audio D8000 Pro paired exceptionally well with HPA-21 and HPA-01M, so probably it'll pair even better with HDA-5210MK4.

 

[omniweltall]

I had a maxed-out mk3 many years ago. If the mk4 is the same as mk3, please be careful when you switch between dynamic and planar headphones with this amp. The amp's high output impendance (current output) reacts differently on gain level between the two.

My memory of the Mk3: Current output had its strength, but sacrificed too much for me. Treble was smooth, bass was linear and deep, and staging was airy and very wide. But even though the staging was really wide, it felt really flat and lost any sort of depth/dimensionality. And though the amp was generally good with slam, micro/macro dynamics were weak. In addition to the flat overall sound, it was also thin sounding. Regarding voltage out, I really can't say anything good about it.

I haven't heard the mk4 and it could be an improvement to mk3.

 

[Nostoi]

I had a maxed-out mk3 many years ago. If the mk4 is the same as mk3, please be careful when you switch between dynamic and planar headphones with this amp. The amp's high output impendance (current output) reacts differently on gain level between the two.

My memory of the Mk3: Current output had its strength, but sacrificed too much for me. Treble was smooth, bass was linear and deep, and staging was airy and very wide. But even though the staging was really wide, it felt really flat and lost any sort of depth/dimensionality. And though the amp was generally good with slam, micro/macro dynamics were weak. In addition to the flat overall sound, it was also thin sounding. Regarding voltage out, I really can't say anything good about it.

I haven't heard the mk4 and it could be an improvement to mk3.

Which DAC/headphones did you pair MK3 with out of interest?

Yes, voltage out is definitely not the main selling point of this amp (in some respects, I think they'd be better to remove it as they have done on the portable HDA-5230 both because [1] current is where it's at, and, [2] to avoid the discrepancy in output).

Haven't heard MK3, but I can say MK4 is far from flat/thin sounding; quite the opposite, it has a real heft in the lower mids/bass with an excellent holographic presentation. Dynamics would also be a highlight of the amp, I'd add.

To be sure, though, this is definitely not an all-rounder amp. I would only invest in it if your main headphones are planars.

 

[LoveKnight]

This is the information that I got from high-end power amplifier from Bakoon English version
The metal film resistance ATT has a very large amount of information, has a very good sound separation, and expresses a low range from a rich midrange.
Untrained winding resistance ATT is a natural sound with a minimum of distortion, very high resolution, rich low range, dynamic sound.

https://exclusive-audio.jp/en/products/amp5570?_pos=1&_sid=36f071021&_ss=r

So I guess ordering this Bakoon Mk4 amplifier from Japan then you can have two flavor tastes depend which type of sounds you would like to listen to or pair with your headphones. To my taste I will choose the second option which costs more.

 

[Nostoi]

This is the information that I got from high-end power amplifier from Bakoon English version
The metal film resistance ATT has a very large amount of information, has a very good sound separation, and expresses a low range from a rich midrange.
Untrained winding resistance ATT is a natural sound with a minimum of distortion, very high resolution, rich low range, dynamic sound.

https://exclusive-audio.jp/en/products/amp5570?_pos=1&_sid=36f071021&_ss=r

So I guess ordering this Bakoon Mk4 amplifier from Japan then you can have two flavor tastes depend which type of sounds you would like to listen to or pairs with your headphones. To my taste I will choose the second option which costs more.

Great, thanks for the info. Both options sound appealing and perhaps have their own merits. Let us know what you think when it arrives.