[unclejr]

SO. I went for flats. And for a time, it was good. Better (?) bass response, richer sounding, "focused" headstage (if you're into that kinda thing).

But I made the mistake of demo'ing some GS1000s again (my local shop tolerates me bi-weekly), and I noticed that on one of my favorite vocal tracks -- "So Danço Samba" sung by João Gilberto on Getz/Gilberto (Verve 314 521 414-2) -- that the acoustic double bass was incredibly detailed and clear, even during the rich, quietly powerful voice of Gilberto's in the intro.

I rushed home to hear the same track on the same little portable sys (ALAC from CD via iMod 5th gen > RSA Tomahawk > ... ) to the RS-1s, and the bass detail was noticeably gone, something that someone at some point mentioned. Awfully muddy. Dug up the bowls from a box and threw them on the RS-1s, and I managed to re-capture some of that bass detail I had been missing for so long.

My appreciation of Etymotic ER-4ps would tell you that I value detail (and accuracy, in general, especially with piano timbres), so I am willing to sacrifice poorly recorded bass impact for bass detail, if I have to choose. I find that the RS-1 + bowls handle bass just fine with many songs that recorded (or over produced) with bass in mind. However for the ones that treat bass like another instrument (the way I prefer to think of it in most of my music), I definitely would rather have the detail afforded by the bowls than the punch provided by the flats.

Crazy how driver distance + space/air (not mutually exclusive) can have such a perceivable impact. It's about as subtle as a pissed off high school gossip queen.

Oh on another note, this particular track might be the deal-sealer for me to prefer the Grados to the AKG K701s, which was a difficult call only because I am still on the fence as to whether or not the K701s had a more accurate Gilberto voice reproduction ... again an easily perceivable difference in the two 'phones. I liked the richness in the GS1000s that accompanied its detail.

They might just well become my next "last" headphones. Not any time soon though ... thanks for reading.

 

[warrior05]

I'm curious if you have a newer model RS-1. I ask because when I first got a chance to test RS-1s they were a newer model and had flats. I did not like it but when I put the bowls from my SR225 on I found it to be much more preferable. I had since bought an older model RS-1 and used them with bowls till I tried, on a lark, reversing them. Holy cow! Nice defined bass and more of it. More intimate sound and I could just hear everything. I immediately browsed on over to TTVJ and ordered a pair of flats. Have had them on ever since.

I do have to say, though, I have not done any further A/B'ing so you've got my curiosity piqued.

 

[Torula Yeast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclejr /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I made the mistake of demo'ing some GS1000s again (my local shop tolerates me bi-weekly)

Thanks for this -- it was my best laugh all day.

I can imagine me doing that to my fave local Grado dealer. Sorta. On the other hand, I'm not sure I could walk out w/o the Holy Grail of Grados not in hand. M'be it's best for my wallet that I stay in, for the most part...

 

[unclejr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior05 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm curious if you have a newer model RS-1. I ask because when I first got a chance to test RS-1s they were a newer model and had flats. I did not like it but when I put the bowls from my SR225 on I found it to be much more preferable. I had since bought an older model RS-1 and used them with bowls till I tried, on a lark, reversing them. Holy cow! Nice defined bass and more of it. More intimate sound and I could just hear everything. I immediately browsed on over to TTVJ and ordered a pair of flats. Have had them on ever since. I do have to say, though, I have not done any further A/B'ing so you've got my curiosity piqued.

I have a serial number in the 3000s, if that helps at all. I was in the same boat, flats hadn't left the RS-1s since they got put on, it sounded so much fuller, I guess. That bottom end is so seductive, I guess ....

...


Quote:

Originally Posted by Torula Yeast /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for this -- it was my best laugh all day. I can imagine me doing that to my fave local Grado dealer. Sorta. On the other hand, I'm not sure I could walk out w/o the Holy Grail of Grados not in hand. M'be it's best for my wallet that I stay in, for the most part...

I'm glad I could be THE top amusement for the 00:00 to 02:00 mark of your day! That's really quite high praise for me.

So it's kind of interesting that my most recent experience with the GS1000s finally has me kind of believing that there is something to these cans after all, considering the whole "Grado sound" business. I think I can see where they're coming from, finally. Rich, full midrange, which I would describe as warm. Yet detailed and accurate where it needs to be. Soundstage is wider, sure, for better or for worse. That bass detail plus impact is absolutely the most intriguing part for me. It sounded effortless, so much presence.

 

[warrior05]

I had a chance to listen to a rare pre-production GS1000 on my own system at a meet. I absolutely loved what I heard. It was the Grado sound but with more depth, detail and soundstage. I try not to think of that experience... or my wallet is trying to make me not think of that experience.

Actually, I refuse to obsess until I hear a production unit on my own system. Hopefully that day won't come for a little while.

 

[varro]

I love bowls too, they are far more comfortable than the flats and sound better.

 

[carlineng]

I also really like bowls, but unfortunately I wear glasses, and as with any supra-aural cans, the pressure on my ears against the legs of the glasses make my ears ache ache somewhat. I'm considering doing a sock-mod to my bowls to make them circumaural. Can anyone here comment on the SQ of sock-modded bowls?

 

[Mindless]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclejr /img/forum/go_quote.gif So it's kind of interesting that my most recent experience with the GS1000s finally has me kind of believing that there is something to these cans after all, considering the whole "Grado sound" business. I think I can see where they're coming from, finally. Rich, full midrange, which I would describe as warm. Yet detailed and accurate where it needs to be. Soundstage is wider, sure, for better or for worse. That bass detail plus impact is absolutely the most intriguing part for me. It sounded effortless, so much presence.

That's what I like about mine.

Trying the super-bowls / salad-bowls on the lower Grado's is also very interesting. You should try buying a pair. It's really fun swapping pads on my GS1000 between flats, bowls and super-bowls. Very interesting effects.

With the flats, you loose a bit of the soundstage, but it's definately great anyway. You gain alot more presence in the music though as the driver comes alot closer to your ear. Bass is also much greater but still superbly controlled.

The regular bowls are pretty much something inbetween the flats and super-bowls. A very rewarding sound. Honestly, I haven't experimented nearly enough with the different combinations.

One thing that's very strange (but fun) to do is to use a flat on one ear, and super-bowl on the other.

 

[unclejr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior05 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I had a chance to listen to a rare pre-production GS1000 on my own system at a meet. I absolutely loved what I heard. It was the Grado sound but with more depth, detail and soundstage. I try not to think of that experience... or my wallet is trying to make me not think of that experience. Actually, I refuse to obsess until I hear a production unit on my own system. Hopefully that day won't come for a little while.

Those weren't the ones seen in the lab tour with the huge air chambers on them, were they?

Anyway, the GS1000s have probably only gotten better since they went into production ... call it design burn in.

PS. it cracks me up that there's an "evil" and then a "very evil" smile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindless /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's what I like about mine. Trying the super-bowls / salad-bowls on the lower Grado's is also very interesting. You should try buying a pair. It's really fun swapping pads on my GS1000 between flats, bowls and super-bowls. Very interesting effects. With the flats, you loose a bit of the soundstage, but it's definately great anyway. You gain alot more presence in the music though as the driver comes alot closer to your ear. Bass is also much greater but still superbly controlled. The regular bowls are pretty much something inbetween the flats and super-bowls. A very rewarding sound. Honestly, I haven't experimented nearly enough with the different combinations. One thing that's very strange (but fun) to do is to use a flat on one ear, and super-bowl on the other.

So, I'm assuming that the salad bowls some how just fit on the lower models? I never thought that to be true, but I never took a close look. Does it require modding or does it just fit right onto the groove?

Also, regarding different earpads, for my primary musical interest (jazz), it's not all that far fetched because I'm noticing that a large percentage of my recordings have mixed the double bass on the left channel almost exclusively (bowl for detail on the L) and the drums on the right (plenty of detail not all that lost with the flats on the R). I cannot recall if I've noticed anything particular about any horns except that I suspect they are more central. Piano is definitely more central in most piano trio type recordings.

But the presence of the bass almost exclusively on the left side would make mismatched pads not all that unreasonable.

 

[unclejr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlineng /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also really like bowls, but unfortunately I wear glasses, and as with any supra-aural cans, the pressure on my ears against the legs of the glasses make my ears ache ache somewhat. I'm considering doing a sock-mod to my bowls to make them circumaural. Can anyone here comment on the SQ of sock-modded bowls?

Oh, and regarding glasses, I found the GS1000s to be very very comfortable. It does warrant giving the super-ultra-mega bowls a try on the lower models, provided that they do fit.

 

[Mindless]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclejr /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, I'm assuming that the salad bowls some how just fit on the lower models? I never thought that to be true, but I never took a close look. Does it require modding or does it just fit right onto the groove?

You can just slide them into the groove. Very simple. By far the best sounding pads with the SR225.

 

[carlosgp]

Unclejr, try taping the bowls (electrical or scotch tape). It brings up the bass, but preserves the bowl presdentation in general and bass detail in particular. You can try different widths to tune the quantity of bass. 2 cm gives you a strong bass, 1 cm a moderate one. Try it, is a nice mod if you prefer some "meat" in your bowls

.

 

[Torula Yeast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindless /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can just slide them into the groove. Very simple. By far the best sounding pads with the SR225.

Ah, I've been wondering about that, and whether I should drop 45 dollars American for a pair of those salad bowls for my 325i's. They strike me as having the power to fill up the larger chamber w/o a problem. My impression is they'd give my 'phones greater soundstage and detail. Not sure what it would do for bass, but I doubt the bass would be neutered.

 

[Superpredator]

I've tried flats, z flats or whatever they're called, bowls, reversed bowls with the HF-1, 325i and RS-1 and it's difficult to pick an absolute winner. For the HF-1 and 325i flats reign over the others, but with the RS-1 it's less clear. I wish there was something that sounded like a cross between flats and bowls (sort of like reversed bowls) but with greater comfort. Until someone comes up with this something I'll probably just stick with flats, despite their somewhat muddier sound.

 

[kramer5150]

I must be some kind of semi anti-basshead... I have never enjoyed flat pads of any kind on my Grados. Be it HD414, comfies or TTVJ flats. Bass response is the one of the biggest reasons. With any kind of flat pad the bass is just too wooly, too thumpy-dumpy-plumpy. Its too much like a DJ/nightclub sound. Midrange sounds too congested too.

Add bowls and you ad air, texture and space around bass notes. Its most noticeable with jazz upright bass and acoustic bass. Vocals sound more airy and clear too.

the key to it all is a source thats neutral, and does not accentuate highs in any way.

Ditto on the tape mod. Its a great way to increase bass, without adversely affecting other elements of the Grado sound.

Just my opinions.