back-open vs back-closed

[Edoardo]

Differences, in general? From a technical point of view? And from an acoustic one? A seller of mine told me that back-open are somewhat "safer" and that you can listen to them for hours, and that with back-closed ones you'd better not. Is that true? Why? I'm asking you because I'm a newbie and among full-size headphones I've always had open ones, but not for any particular reason...

 

[John Willett]

Open back headphones have the back of the headphones open to the world. They are easier to make, as there is no "loudspeaker cabinet" to make, and the soundstage can be very wide and open. As much sound comes out of the back as goes into your ears (but this does fall away very quickly due to the inverse-squalre law) and you can also hear people talking in the room.

Closed back headphones have sealed "loudspeaker cabinets" and are harder to make as this sealed enclosure pays an important part of the sound and it takes careful design to get it right (one reason why you can't seal off open headphones to make them closed). They can isolate very well from the outside world, but the downside is that the soundstage is very much "in head".

Both types have their pros and cons - personally I have both types and use one or the other as the situation dictates.

For real sitting back and enjoyable listening I prefer the open back style, but if you are in a more noisy environment, then closed headphones would be better for this.

I often do long recording sessions, sometimes over several days and wear headphones for long periods - the closed headphones I use, I find no problem at all wearing them for long periods (but I have had others that get extremely uncomfortable after a short period, so be careful).

I hope this helps.

 

[QQQ]

Quote:

one reason why you can't seal off open headphones to make them closed

Actually, you can. Just look on Beyers' DT 770 and 990.

 

[QQQ]

Oh, wait, you're Sennheiser guy, so...Px100 and 200

 

[Edoardo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif Open back headphones have the back of the headphones open to the world. They are easier to make, as there is no "loudspeaker cabinet" to make, and the soundstage can be very wide and open. As much sound comes out of the back as goes into your ears (but this does fall away very quickly due to the inverse-squalre law) and you can also hear people talking in the room. Closed back headphones have sealed "loudspeaker cabinets" and are harder to make as this sealed enclosure pays an important part of the sound and it takes careful design to get it right (one reason why you can't seal off open headphones to make them closed). They can isolate very well from the outside world, but the downside is that the soundstage is very much "in head". Both types have their pros and cons - personally I have both types and use one or the other as the situation dictates. For real sitting back and enjoyable listening I prefer the open back style, but if you are in a more noisy environment, then closed headphones would be better for this. I often do long recording sessions, sometimes over several days and wear headphones for long periods - the closed headphones I use, I find no problem at all wearing them for long periods (but I have had others that get extremely uncomfortable after a short period, so be careful). I hope this helps.

Thank you very much

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by QQQ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, you can. Just look on Beyers' DT 770 and 990.

No you *can't*.

Although a closed design may be based on an existing open design, the closed version will be different and *not* just stuffing a closed back on the open version.

I was involved in the early testing of the Sennheiser HD 250, which was based on the HD 540 open design. The first samples were quite horrible and a lot of re-tuning was done to get it right.

Beyer would do the same thing.

If you took a 990 and closed it off, it would not sound anything like a 770.

 

[QQQ]

There's some additional damping in DT 770, other that that, they're completely similar. Drivers used in 250ohm versions are the same.
So it's better to say sometimes you can't convert open phone to closed but sometimes it's possible, depends on enclosure specs, driver specs, etc.

What about px 100\200? Different or same drivers?

 

[intoart]

If your listening space has any ambient noise (even something you don't normally notice, like a refrigerator or a computer fan), then you really need isolation to get 100% of the sound that headphones can offer. Only closed cans are able to isolate (though not all of them do so. D5000s, for example, do not isolate any better than open cans.)

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by QQQ /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's some additional damping in DT 770, other that that, they're completely similar. Drivers used in 250ohm versions are the same. So it's better to say sometimes you can't convert open phone to closed but sometimes it's possible, depends on enclosure specs, driver specs, etc.

That's what I'm saying, the drivers may be basically the same, but it's how you damp them - together with the design of the closed cup - that does it.

And designing damping is not a simple process if you want to get the sound right.

A user can't convert an open to closed, but a manufacturer can re-design and modify an existing open design to make a closed design.

Maybe I just wasn't being clear enough.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif If your listening space has any ambient noise (even something you don't normally notice, like a refrigerator or a computer fan), then you really need isolation to get 100% of the sound that headphones can offer. Only closed cans are able to isolate (though not all of them do so. D5000s, for example, do not isolate any better than open cans.)

Denons are ported. For all intents and purposes they should be expected to isolate only slightly better than an open baffle or transmission line headphone.

The good news is that ported headphones dont sound like CLOSED&sealed headphones, which are by and large crap.

 

[QQQ]

nikongod, i really can't think of a completely closed cans. Seems like almost all of them have some kind of a port, visible or hidden.

 

[intoart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif The good news is that ported headphones dont sound like CLOSED&sealed headphones, which are by and large crap.

I must have just gotten lucky, then, since my DT770s were excellent phones, and my DT150s are the best I have ever heard (open or closed) regardless of price.

 

[hotreks]

Hey people, I qould like to ask you is the open back headphones doesnt warm your ears up. My closed back AKG K 545 make my ears very very warm in 5 minutes or 10 and that makes it very uncomfortable especially when its not winter season. I dont wont to take earbuds cause I dont believe they will deliver me the real sound (many of the members here use tzar for example). So thats my question-> is it with open back headphones the ear cold and how much does the people around you listen to what you are listening to? Is it the same when I leave my closed back HP off on my neck?

 

[god-bluff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The good news is that ported headphones dont sound like CLOSED&sealed headphones, which are by and large crap.

I must have just gotten lucky, then, since my DT770s were excellent phones, and my DT150s are the best I have ever heard (open or closed) regardless of price.

Agree DT150 is a uniquely open (sounding) closed phone !

And there are many many great closed phones closed phones out there

 

[HBryant]

I had all the good Beyerdynamic the 1990 and 990 but my fav were DT150 300ohm and even owned a DT100- but the headband dug into the center of my head and really was unbearable same with Neuman headphone the NDH30 that headband is like a rock digging in. I really do miss the 150s except for pain I tired to see if anyone could mod the headband. Seems like a business gold mine! seems like some one by now should have solution. I need this kind of sound but comfortable and ez to live with solution!