Bach: Keyboard Works

Mar 18, 2007 at 2:58 PM Post #166 of 298
Hi all, if you know me a little you'll know I know next to nil about classical music. (I think it was my boredom with the fast food of popular music that found me venturing more and more up to the classical section of my local HMV).

I'm now in the possession of
Bach: Concertos Harpsichord The English Concert/Trevor Pinnock

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Looking back over the last few days it seems more truthful to suggest that it is in possession of me!
For Bach with harpsichord I do already have two Brandenburg concertos (Harnoncourt & Rinaldo Alessandrini) so I don't need a recommendation there right now. But it looks that the complete harpsichord and strings concertos can fit within three CDs and I'd like a second version before branching out. Thanks.
 
Mar 18, 2007 at 5:43 PM Post #167 of 298
Just thinking how I have never found a complete set of these concertos that I really like. The two I have now are both with the Academy of Ancient Music, one with Christopher Hogwood and Christophe Rousset, which surprisingly is superior to the other with Andrew Manze and Richard Egarr.

The Egarr set can sound like a fairly routine run through in places and doesn't connect totally with the emotion in the music at times - the big d minor concerto for example is distinctly underwhelming. The performances are one instrument to a part which aids the balance in the concertos. In every way I want to enjoy these CDs but...

The Rousset set if you can find it also lacks something in poetry in places - but in general moves along with more conviction and drive than with Egarr. Rousset is not overly rushed, but the performances just come across as tauter, with the playing a little more polished. Here the d minor concerto really does sound at its formidably miserable best - the performance is as good as any I have ever heard, but the smaller scale concertos don't come over quite as well.

So no real advice from me - if there is a better modern set of these works I too would like to hear about it!
 
Mar 18, 2007 at 7:12 PM Post #168 of 298
Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth /img/forum/go_quote.gif
But it looks that the complete harpsichord and strings concertos can fit within three CDs and I'd like a second version before branching out. Thanks.


How about Bob van Asperen's budget box on Virgin veritas (originally on EMI reflexe label)? The solo concerti aren't that stunningly recorded but textural clarity suffers none since these are one-to-a-part performances just like the famous Leonhardt quasi-complete set. The playing, while definitely not of the powerful or poetic kind, is extremely tight woven and really grows on me the more I listen to them, and the double concertos are done with none other than Leonhardt himself on the other keyboard. The Asperen set will contrast nicely with your Pinnock as they sound very different indeed.

http://www.virginclassics.com/releas....php?rid=19895
 
Mar 18, 2007 at 8:51 PM Post #169 of 298
Quote:

Originally Posted by zumaro /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The two I have now are both with the Academy of Ancient Music, one with Christopher Hogwood and Christophe Rousset, which surprisingly is superior to the other with Andrew Manze and Richard Egarr.

The Egarr set can sound like a fairly routine run through in places and doesn't connect totally with the emotion in the music at times



Quote:

Originally Posted by Masolino /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The Asperen set will contrast nicely with your Pinnock as they sound very different indeed.

http://www.virginclassics.com/releas....php?rid=19895



The Manze/Egarr actually was the one I was looking into (BBC review) but Hogwood/Rousset it'll be instead if I get another. I can't speak of emotion or other stylistic attributes as I lack the insight. Now I am simply swept up entirely by the architecture of Bach. Contrasting renditions is a cool thing and I'll keep my eye out for the Asperen set as well. Or maybe, not having fully digested what I have, I'm getting ahead of myself!
Thanks
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Mar 19, 2007 at 2:56 AM Post #170 of 298
Hi Eyeteeth,

Long time no chat.
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!

I thought you also had the Jordi Savall Brandenburgs too.

If you are going to get the Rousset harpsichord concertos, also look for this set of solo keyboard music (pictured below) that is available from the BMG music clubs. Btw, where are you getting the Rousset harpsichord concertos? The last time I checked they were commanding very steep prices as they are out of print in the USA. If you see them at a reasonable price in your neck of the woods, be sure to snap them up.

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Mar 19, 2007 at 3:44 PM Post #171 of 298
After going through my collection of Bach, I have also come up with these recordings of the Harpsichord concertos:

1. Café Zimmermann has 3 recordings of Bach concertos in their series, Concerts avec Plusieurs Instruments, which include various instrumental concertos including a few of the harpsichord concertos. These are first rate recordings, but are more varied than you wish at this point.

2. Gustav Leonhardt recorded the concertos with Harnoncourt and the Concentus Musicus Wien and the Leonhardt Consort as well, but they are not my first recommendation at this point because they are a bit hard to find. These Teldec recordings by Gustav Leonhardt were re-released in their Bach 2000 boxed set, and may still be available if you can find them, as the set was a very expensive, limited edition. Teldec was one of the labels under the Warner Classical umbrella and with the demise of Warner Classical (folded into Rhino) you will wait a long time to see these reissued.

3. Lars Mortensen has recorded 2 volumes of the concertos with the Concerto Copenhagen (nicknamed CoCo) and these recordings are excellent. These are performed (as are the Leonhardt, Pinnock and Hogwood sets) on period instruments and are first rate. They are also priced very attractively because they are on the Cpo label. Sound quality is modern and even better than the Leonhardt, Pinnock and Hogwood sets.

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Edit: I would steer clear of the Egarr set for a while until it's reviewed outside UK. Egarr is great in a supporting role (continuo or accompaniment for violin) but in his solo recordings such as the Goldberg Variations, you can tell that he's just not in that top tier like Rousset, Pinnock, Leonhardt or Mortensen. His Goldbergs, imo, were very disappointing.
 
Mar 19, 2007 at 8:51 PM Post #172 of 298
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif

2. Gustav Leonhardt recorded the concertos with Harnoncourt and the Concentus Musicus Wien and the Leonhardt Consort as well, but they are not my first recommendation at this point because they are a bit hard to find. These Teldec recordings by Gustav Leonhardt were re-released in their Bach 2000 boxed set, and may still be available if you can find them, as the set was a very expensive, limited edition. Teldec was one of the labels under the Warner Classical umbrella and with the demise of Warner Classical (folded into Rhino) you will wait a long time to see these reissued.



Leonhardt actually recorded the d-minor concerto with Collegium Aureum (on the DHM label) and so never did it for Teldec. The only Harnoncourt/VCM performance in the box is BWV1052, which has Herbert Tachezi as soloist instead. That's why the Leonhardt set is only "quasi-complete" for me but good nevertheless
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Regarding Richard Egarr, I don't dislike his Goldbergs as much as Bunnyears obviously does, and actually like his Mozart solo album called "Fantasies and Rondos" a lot. The fortepiano (from c. 1805) sound is to die for in this recording.
 
Mar 19, 2007 at 9:13 PM Post #173 of 298
Quote:

Originally Posted by Masolino /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Leonhardt actually recorded the d-minor concerto with Collegium Aureum (on the DHM label) and so never did it for Teldec. The only Harnoncourt/VCM performance in the box is BWV1052, which has Herbert Tachezi as soloist instead. That's why the Leonhardt set is only "quasi-complete" for me but good nevertheless
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Regarding Richard Egarr, I don't dislike his Goldbergs as much as Bunnyears obviously does, and actually like his Mozart solo album called "Fantasies and Rondos" a lot. The fortepiano (from c. 1805) sound is to die for in this recording.



I also like his Mozart, but those Goldbergs are not in the top tier. He did use a very nice instrument with a very sweet and beautiful tone, his explanation of the temperament also excellent, and the sound quality up to HM's finest standards. However, too many variations bogged down and where I wanted some forward momentum it lagged. The Canons were done very well though, and I have no complaint about them.
 
Mar 19, 2007 at 10:33 PM Post #174 of 298
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hi Eyeteeth,

Long time no chat.
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!

I thought you also had the Jordi Savall Brandenburgs too.

Btw, where are you getting the Rousset harpsichord concertos?

Edit: I would steer clear of the Egarr set for a while until it's reviewed outside UK. Egarr is great in a supporting role (continuo or accompaniment for violin) but in his solo recordings such as the Goldberg Variations, you can tell that he's just not in that top tier like Rousset, Pinnock, Leonhardt or Mortensen. His Goldbergs, imo, were very disappointing.



Hi Bunny!
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I do indeed have the Jordi Savall Brandenburgs.....but at my advanced age if something is not immediately at hand it may be out of mind.
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I have no Rousset. I'll digest what Bach I have now before any new purchase. Based upon my very limited listening I won't be surprised if in the end, if there can be an end, I will have no favorite. An example of this is preferring the raucous vigour of Harnoncourt's BWV 1051 to Alessandrini's and prefering the delicacy and precision of Alessandrini's BWV 1049 to Harnoncourt's.

Speaking of reviews, do you have a favorite online magazine or particular reviewer?
 
Mar 20, 2007 at 2:12 AM Post #175 of 298
Hi ET,

I don't think you will find any of the Hogwood at this point. I saw a lot of those recordings at BMG a few years ago when I suppose Universal was getting rid of their inventory. They still have the Hogwood recordings of Bach's Orchestral Suites which I also recommend, as well as a boxed set of all of his Vivaldi recordings. They may be getting ready to put out new boxed sets of his Bach. Who knows? Record companies have very strange minds in charge of the marketing decisions.

I don't have a favorite online magazine or reviewer but like to check most of these out on occasion:

http://www.ClassicsToday.com
http://www.Gramophone.co.uk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/
http://www.musicweb-international.com/index.htm

There are a few more sites that I check (like these):
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/
http://www.goldbergweb.com/en/

As well as the NYTimes online, Manchester Guardian online, The Times of London online, all of which have music reviews.
 
Mar 21, 2007 at 2:04 PM Post #176 of 298
Thanks Bunny. I do like the comprehensiveness of the Gramophone, the economy and layout of the BBC but a genuine preference will come later.

Do you have thoughts about authentic period instruments versus modern?

I have been enjoying the Pinnock, and there is a sense of accuracy (like I would know the difference!), but with something like Concerto for 4 harpsichords and strings BWV 1065 I find the strings to be profound and can't help but desire them to be larger. I like my Cassius Clay to act like "The greatest", if you know what I mean.
 
Mar 21, 2007 at 8:19 PM Post #177 of 298
I'm into an HIP phase right now. I don't reject non period instrument recordings, however, as so many of them are really excellent. It's just that I grew up with those and the sound of the period instruments is fresher for me. The balance between the various instruments is also different than with modern instruments so that the structure shows different elements in greater relief. One of the problems with using a modern instrument orchestra for Bach is that Bach didn't score for more than one or two instruments per part and the baroque instruments did not have the sonority of modern constructed instruments. So many of the prized Stradivarius and Amati violins from the baroque period have been taken apart, cut down, built up, and given modern style interior structures so that their sound would be better suited for the late 19th century orchestra. Most modern orchestra performances of any of Bach's concertos usually include a harpsichord for the figured bass, but you can barely make out the sound of the instrument. In performance with authentic instruments, the harpsichord is never lost. In fact, there are many recordings of the violin concertos using modern orchestras which I'm sure you would find very pleasing. One of these, with Isaac Stern and Itzhak Perlman is available in an expanded edition from Sony Classical. That is certainly not a recording where you will feel the strings have been slighted.
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In fact, most of the recordings of the harpsichord concertos using piano also include a harpsichord for the continuo parts. Bach performed on the modern piano can be extraordinarily beautiful, depending on who is doing what, but I prefer the piano for solo instrumental music. For the concertos I think you or anyone is better served with a smaller ensemble and a harpsichord. FWIW, there is no one correct way of performing music. There is only one incorrect way: badly.

If you still need more powerful strings for the harpsichord concertos, perhaps consider the harpsichord concertos on piano. The best ones that I have heard are by Murray Perahia. Angela Hewitt also has a fine set of the harpsichord concertos on piano but Hewitt tends to be very rhythmically driven, so there can be an absence of color in her work on piano.

I still think the best choice for the harpsichord concertos has to be the Mortensen recordings with Concerto Copenagen right now. They are less expensive and easier to find than the Hogwood, and this set has far superior sound quality to even the Pinnock. I haven't read a review of these recordings that isn't written in superlatives, and the second volume was even more favorably received than the first. What makes it really nice is that they can be had at very good prices.

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If you decide to go for the Murray Perahia Bach, then I suggest this set which also includes the English Suites and Goldberg Variations (really top notch) as well as the concertos. Hopefully it's still available at the low prices I bought it for.

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Mar 21, 2007 at 9:17 PM Post #178 of 298
I'm sure HIP will be my choice in the end but curiosity always has me check out the other side...of course this doesn't include lifestyles choices!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I still think the best choice for the harpsichord concertos has to be the Mortensen recordings with Concerto Copenagen right now. They are less expensive and easier to find than the Hogwood, and this set has far superior sound quality to even the Pinnock.


I've ordered both vol1 & vol2.

Will I be sending you a bill at the end of the year?
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Mar 22, 2007 at 2:00 PM Post #179 of 298
Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm sure HIP will be my choice in the end but curiosity always has me check out the other side...of course this doesn't include lifestyles choices!
smily_headphones1.gif


I've ordered both vol1 & vol2.

Will I be sending you a bill at the end of the year?
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I am so VERY sorry about your wallet!
 

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