[Kuoppis]

I'm pretty sure Dan @ MrSpeakers ships worldwide.  If not and you're interested let me know and I'll get you a pair.  Easy.  

Thank you for the offer, appreciate it. I think they even ship to Europe, but it is just a tad difficult to test them before ordering.

 

[jtwrace]

Thank you for the offer, appreciate it. I think they even ship to Europe, but it is just a tad difficult to test them before ordering.

If you like neutral and detail, nothing to test.  

 

[Duke40]

Hello Duke,

I really appreciate the sharing of your really insightful and very detailed experiences with external PSUs. There is also a point that a 1000,- PSU to support a sub 2000,- product might be a bit out of proportion.

As I am also rather sceptical about the use of a laptop charger for powering an amp and your story really made sense to me, I ordered one of these HDPLEX PSUs as well. I am pretty certain it will make a difference.

Appreciate you jumping in to help out.

Regards,
Kuoppis

Hi Kuoppis,
 
 
No problem, I am happy to help.  My typing speed is very slow and I am not on HeadFi often (I mainly just private PM with a guy from Texas who I highly respect).
So, I mainly use HeadFi for research, though I thought this question about external PSU's was something I could actually contribute back to the community and maybe help someone else.
After all I did nearly an hour of research per day over 3 months, close to 100 hours , starting back all the way in August (1 hour per day reading on my iPad while on the exercise bike).
 
 
Yes, I too was sceptical about the laptop charger ... when I read the 6Moons review and saw it was a Toshiba laptop charger, I then checked out the charger on Amazon, they cost $9.50.
In the same 6Moons review, they actually state that the packaging for the Gemini costs $10.
So effectively more is spent on the packaging than the supplied laptop charger.
 
 
The Chris Martens review was also influential in my purchase of the Gemini 2000 ... so that set the seed of the idea of getting an external Regulated Linear PSU to see if that would further optimize the Gemini that I was planning to get.
 
 
Also, I have noticed a trend, especially over the last 2 years, about what I call the "Rise of the Linear PSU".
Everyone from SBT users, to people making CAPS music servers (over on Computer Audiophile), to the guys on the JPlay forums (those guys are extreme, really pushing the edge),
are reporting benefits from using Linear PSU's.  
Previously I plugged my DACmini CX into an XPAL 18000 LiPo battery I had spare and heard an improvement, so I thought why not give Linear PSU's a go.
 
 
Before I pressed send on that post, I did hesitate for a moment in case I sounded like a shill for HD-Plex, or just too hype'ing a product too much ... then thought stuff it, I had a great experience with them, why not share it.
I also hope I have not over-hyped it over the top and "Set expectations" too high.   Still it remains a much better tweak than HP cables or other cable tweaks have proved... I actually once spent more on a reference HP cable than what I spent on the PSU ... I struggled to hear the improvement with the aftermarket cable (it was their, but mainly for critical listening), though the PSU was immediate and welcome in it's improvements.
 
 
 
RE "I see you are going a step further, I do not have a dedicated line, as there are no big factories in the immediate vicinity. But I am sometimes wondering how some of the hi- end gear is supposed to sound, as they are typically supplied with an inferior power setup while so much can be achieved when optimizing it a bit."
 
 
I wonder the exact same thing about how much the true potential of gear is limited by using inferior power supplies.
If you look at a manufacturer's range of product,   their reference product always has the very best power supply ... sometimes even in an external case.
 
 
RE "I ordered one of these HDPLEX PSUs as well."
 
 
Great to hear.   It is pretty simple to setup. Just
1) select the correct input voltage for your country on the back of the HD-Plex (their is red switch on the back)
2) plug the XLR-to-DC power cable , XLR plug to the 19V output ... DC plug to the Gemini
3) power the gear on
 
Child's play to setup.    
 
The only issue I had was that the stock XLR-to DC power cable seemed to have a 2.1mm DC plug (which did not fit the input of the Gemini ... the DC input of the Gemini is 2.5mm).
 
I was glad that I asked Larry from HD-Plex for an additional XLR-to-DC power cable, specifically with a 2.5mm DC plug when I placed the order.
As mentioned before,  that cable arrived the next day and worked fine (into the back of the Gemini).
 
 
As an aside ... Magico speakers ???    Man, you are playing at a level above us mere mortals 

 
 
 
Another aside ... I wonder if the Gemini would be taken more seriously if Auralic offered a version without the Klutz headphone stand integrated into the unit.
That is ,  just the base part that contains the DAC/AMP section, without the headphone stand part.
If they did that (and reduced the price accordingly) they may reach a larger audience.
Also, now that I actually have the Gemini I really do appreciate the headphone stand part ... though initially it was a bit of a negative on first looks ... I thought how much is spent on the stand part in comparison to the DAC/AMP part.
 
 
Anyway, that is enough typing from me for now. Silly season (xmas party's) is now in full swing.

 

[Kuoppis]

If you like neutral and detail, nothing to test.  :wink_face:

Also true, but in term of Hi-Fi or Hi-End my view is that "hearing is beliieving" . Thanks anyway, I might just order them to test.m

 

[Kuoppis]

Hi Kuoppis,


No problem, I am happy to help.  My typing speed is very slow and I am not on HeadFi often (I mainly just private PM with a guy from Texas who I highly respect).
So, I mainly use HeadFi for research, though I thought this question about external PSU's was something I could actually contribute back to the community and maybe help someone else.
After all I did nearly an hour of research per day over 3 months, close to 100 hours , starting back all the way in August (1 hour per day reading on my iPad while on the exercise bike).


Yes, I too was sceptical about the laptop charger ... when I read the 6Moons review and saw it was a Toshiba laptop charger, I then checked out the charger on Amazon, they cost $9.50.
In the same 6Moons review, they actually state that the packaging for the Gemini costs $10.
So effectively more is spent on the packaging than the supplied laptop charger.


The Chris Martens review was also influential in my purchase of the Gemini 2000 ... so that set the seed of the idea of getting an external Regulated Linear PSU to see if that would further optimize the Gemini that I was planning to get.


Also, I have noticed a trend, especially over the last 2 years, about what I call the "Rise of the Linear PSU".
Everyone from SBT users, to people making CAPS music servers (over on Computer Audiophile), to the guys on the JPlay forums (those guys are extreme, really pushing the edge),
are reporting benefits from using Linear PSU's.  
Previously I plugged my DACmini CX into an XPAL 18000 LiPo battery I had spare and heard an improvement, so I thought why not give Linear PSU's a go.


Before I pressed send on that post, I did hesitate for a moment in case I sounded like a shill for HD-Plex, or just too hype'ing a product too much ... then thought stuff it, I had a great experience with them, why not share it.
I also hope I have not over-hyped it over the top and "Set expectations" too high.   Still it remains a much better tweak than HP cables or other cable tweaks have proved... I actually once spent more on a reference HP cable than what I spent on the PSU ... I struggled to hear the improvement with the aftermarket cable (it was their, but mainly for critical listening), though the PSU was immediate and welcome in it's improvements.



RE "I see you are going a step further, I do not have a dedicated line, as there are no big factories in the immediate vicinity. But I am sometimes wondering how some of the hi- end gear is supposed to sound, as they are typically supplied with an inferior power setup while so much can be achieved when optimizing it a bit."


I wonder the exact same thing about how much the true potential of gear is limited by using inferior power supplies.
If you look at a manufacturer's range of product,   their reference product always has the very best power supply ... sometimes even in an external case.


RE "I ordered one of these HDPLEX PSUs as well."


Great to hear.   It is pretty simple to setup. Just
1) select the correct input voltage for your country on the back of the HD-Plex (their is red switch on the back)
2) plug the XLR-to-DC power cable , XLR plug to the 19V output ... DC plug to the Gemini
3) power the gear on

Child's play to setup.    

The only issue I had was that the stock XLR-to DC power cable seemed to have a 2.1mm DC plug (which did not fit the input of the Gemini ... the DC input of the Gemini is 2.5mm).

I was glad that I asked Larry from HD-Plex for an additional XLR-to-DC power cable, specifically with a 2.5mm DC plug when I placed the order.
As mentioned before,  that cable arrived the next day and worked fine (into the back of the Gemini).


As an aside ... Magico speakers ???    Man, you are playing at a level above us mere mortals :bigsmile_face:  


Another aside ... I wonder if the Gemini would be taken more seriously if Auralic offered a version without the Klutz headphone stand integrated into the unit.
That is ,  just the base part that contains the DAC/AMP section, without the headphone stand part.
If they did that (and reduced the price accordingly) they may reach a larger audience.
Also, now that I actually have the Gemini I really do appreciate the headphone stand part ... though initially it was a bit of a negative on first looks ... I thought how much is spent on the stand part in comparison to the DAC/AMP part.


Anyway, that is enough typing from me for now. Silly season (xmas party's) is now in full swing.

Duke, I really appreciate your insights, otherwise I would have had to do the same research by myself. So, now I had the priviledge to jump to the end of the process right away. I think the nice thing about these fora is that there is an opportunity to compare notes with likeminded smart people to make it all more fun.

Based on my limited experience the PSU thing should really be a no-brainer, unfortunately it is not. I find it kind of silly, that e.g. in a 2-ch audio-toy setup equivalent of a larger bimmer, the power part is from manufacturer side so poorly taken care of, that with an investment of one grand into a couple of power cables you can actually really get a considerable, very well audible sonic improvement. Point being, most audio equipment suppliers could make much better gear with little additional effort. There of course is the small detail to consider, that $1 in BOM (bill of material) equals to roughly $6 in retail price. Adding a €150,- power cord would make an audio toy retail for a grand more.

About the Magicos, in my humble opinion, I think they're good. The turnside however being, that in order to go from good to great with the Californians you really need to invest in equivalent Electronics as well. With poor electronics they can sound bland and boring. If you are however willing to go the full ten yards, you will be a very happy audiophile with a smile from ear-to-ear every time you listen to music.

Looping back from Magicos to Head-Fi is easy: Senn HD800's - exactly the same thing. What I am hearing is that a surprisingly large number of very experienced and knowledgeable Head-Fi aficionados dismisss them as bland and too analytical. Owning a pair and having just thrown out a $2000,- HP amp from a very respected manufacturer because it was not good enough, I can definitely relate to that point of view. The thing however is, as it is with every exceptional 2-ch setup as well, I think Head-Fi needs similar TLC to match, pair and optimize. Personally, I have rarely been able to find in hi-end audio a plug&play situation which would have been satisfactory. Head-Fi is interesting because it adds one more characteristic, which is physical comfort. Unfortunately some of the best cans are rather heavy and I seem to be too much of a wimp to be willing to wear them over extended periods of time. So there seems to be no other way than to first optimize the comfort, soundstage and detail retrieval and then to see where the warmth and bass extension will come from.

But long story short, before buying the Gemini 2000 I tested it with the Senns and was already quite happy. Adding the aftermarket HP cable and now the PSU will probably get me dangerously close to having to resort to some other element of my audio setup to spend money on, for it to make sense (and I assure you, it already is nowhere close to making sense at all ). What I also particularly like about the Gemini is that it is a bargain, featuring an excellent amp, DAC implementation, as well as the stylish stand. We could of course all just buy the Taurus and Vega with the Klutz and be happy. But with the tweaks I think we will however get sonically reasonably close to the elder brethren, but still win by a mile in the coolness factor. It is a matter of personal taste of course, but I do think the Gemini will win by a mile in the coolness factor. As I was born before the moon landing, in the meantime I have outgrown the phase in my life anaway, where I find it stylish to put metal boxes of different shapes and sizes on an altar in my living room.

 

[jtwrace]

Also true, but in term of Hi-Fi or Hi-End my view is that "hearing is beliieving"

. Thanks anyway, I might just order them to test.m

Yes, I understand.  I was only part joking.  

  Let us know what you think if you do try them out though.

 

[jtwrace]

 
Another aside ... I wonder if the Gemini would be taken more seriously if Auralic offered a version without the Klutz headphone stand integrated into the unit.
That is ,  just the base part that contains the DAC/AMP section, without the headphone stand part.
If they did that (and reduced the price accordingly) they may reach a larger audience.

I agree 100%!  A couple of weeks ago I even sent AURALiC an email with this thought too.  Perhaps you should too.  

 

[goldendarko]

Would probably get rid of the "lifestyle" label that has been attached to it as well

 

[jtwrace]

Would probably get rid of the "lifestyle" label that has been attached to it as well

Agreed.

 

[Duke40]

 

 
Another aside ... I wonder if the Gemini would be taken more seriously if Auralic offered a version without the Klutz headphone stand integrated into the unit.
That is ,  just the base part that contains the DAC/AMP section, without the headphone stand part.
If they did that (and reduced the price accordingly) they may reach a larger audience.

I agree 100%!  A couple of weeks ago I even sent AURALiC an email with this thought too.  Perhaps you should too.  

jtwrace, that's a good thought, I may do just that.    
It was actually when I saw the Chord Hugo , is when I thought the base of the Gemini and the Chord Hugo are about the same size (except the Hugo is square, Gemini is round).
I know the Hugo has other differences, like being portable (having a battery included), still it was looking at the Hugo that gave me the thought.
 
 
Another aside,   Auralic already manufacture's a Linear PSU (the 16V that comes with the Aries .... I believe the Aries LE just gets a SMPS, also miss out on the Femto technology in the DAC's).
The difference between the Aries and the Aries LE is $600 I believe (to get the 16V Linear PSU and Femto DAC technology from Auralic).
 
If Auralic manufactured a 19V Linear PSU for the Gemini as an option (just like the Aries gets an option),  it would be a no brainer for me, I would have just the manufactures Linear PSU, especially if they priced it in the $300 to $400 range.

 

[Kuoppis]

I think spacewise it should be no problem to fit the Taurus and Vega into one box. But then again, they might not be able to command a premium similar to the separates.

On the other hand, if I'm not completely mistaken, there might be a number of audiophiles who would be willing to invest in a concept similar to the Burson Conductor, if it was made by Auralic.

 

[Kuoppis]

Relative to the can side, has anyone tried the Gemini with Audeze LCD-X or Hifiman 400i? My earlier experiment with the LCD-2 was not successful.

Of course there is a delta between those two cans, but in general I found the LCD-X more balanced compared to the smaller brother. The 400i I just tried with my mobile setup (iPhone + FiiO Mont Blanc) and it was quite nice, mellow in a good way. For stationary use with the Gemini I am however not sure whether the 400i packs the punch I desire.

 

[Duke40]

Relative to the can side, has anyone tried the Gemini with Audeze LCD-X or Hifiman 400i? My earlier experiment with the LCD-2 was not successful.

Of course there is a delta between those two cans, but in general I found the LCD-X more balanced compared to the smaller brother. The 400i I just tried with my mobile setup (iPhone + FiiO Mont Blanc) and it was quite nice, mellow in a good way. For stationary use with the Gemini I am however not sure whether the 400i packs the punch I desire.

hi Kuoppis,
 
I do not have the Audeze LCD-X .... just have the Audeze LCD-3  (which is a plus for me, as I believe Auralic used a LCD-3 when developing/testing the Gemini 2000 ... this information is 2nd hand information though, from my dealer).   So it is actually a perfect match.   I am a fan of the LCD-3 sound  (not of Audeze reliability, several bad experience's).    
My only other HP's at the moment are very old AKG701 which is more a HP that I respect more than love (this is my backup/travel HP).
 
I have initially had the Senn HD800 (my first true high end HP), Audeze LCD-2,  Ultrasone ED8 (this was before I got the Gemini 2000) ... I ended up keeping the LCD-3 and the AKG701 (my oldest HP).
 
The LCD-X is probably the most linear of the Audeze range, it is also the least power hungry.
See the third graph in Tyll's review below
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/audeze-lcd-x-fazor-and-fresh-listen-current-lcd-2-and-lcd-3-page-2
the LCD-3 appears a bit rolled off in the bass now, the LCD-X looks more linear in the bass.
 
The LCD-X is the HP that I am most interested in getting next , mainly because it is sensitive enough to run from a iDevice if necessary, maybe next year (I just need my trust in the brand to be restored after the previously mentioned bad experience, I may buy it next year if my LCD3 behaves).    
 
So I too am interested in anyone's experience with the LCD-X & Gemini 2000.

 

[Duke40]

Relative to the can side, has anyone tried the Gemini with Audeze LCD-X or Hifiman 400i? My earlier experiment with the LCD-2 was not successful.

Of course there is a delta between those two cans, but in general I found the LCD-X more balanced compared to the smaller brother. The 400i I just tried with my mobile setup (iPhone + FiiO Mont Blanc) and it was quite nice, mellow in a good way. For stationary use with the Gemini I am however not sure whether the 400i packs the punch I desire.

hi Kuoppis,
 
Apart from the LCD-X looking like a more stable (reliability wise in comparison to the LCD-3), have you considered Oppo.    They have the PM-1 and the PM-2.
 
I understand that the less expensive  PM-2 actually has the same drivers (and same sound) as the more expensive PM-1.
I think the PM-2 may have less accessories, the finish (headband, earcups) may be different as well.
 
Just a thought.

 

[Kuoppis]

hi Kuoppis,

Apart from the LCD-X looking like a more stable (reliability wise in comparison to the LCD-3), have you considered Oppo.    They have the PM-1 and the PM-2.

I understand that the less expensive  PM-2 actually has the same drivers (and same sound) as the more expensive PM-1.
I think the PM-2 may have less accessories, the finish (headband, earcups) may be different as well.

Just a thought.

Hello Duke,

Thank you for the suggestion, I think it is a good one.

As a matter of fact, when buying the HD800s I was auditioning both Oppos as well and even using the in-house HA-1 HP amp for the evaluation, which is a good match with the PM-1s. I really liked the design and the comfort of the PM1s, but sonically they were quite a bit behind the Senns. In my humble opinion they were more like affluent casual user cans, but I would not really consider them hi-end as such. They do have a nice overall balance, but the detail retrieval is missing compared to the best. Very good Cans though.

Comparing the PM-2s to the premium version, I've heard they might be using the same drivers, but the sound quality is different by quite a large margin. While I could live with the PM-1s, I would not settle for the PM-2s.

What I was able to hear, and taking in consideration aural memory being quite short in general, I nevetheless would not put the PM-1s in the same league with the Audeze LCD-X. Given the relatively small price difference I would pick the LCD-X in a heartbeat compared to the PM-1s, except for comfort. But that is the weak point of all Audezes based on my personal preferences.

Regards,
Kuoppis