AudioQuest Dragonfly Review : Affordable, Outstanding, Tiny DAC / Amp
May 14, 2016 at 11:53 AM Post #2,401 of 2,500

canali

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I use Spotify to audition equipment including DACs all the time. It's perfectly adequate and my audiophile partner in crime also uses 320kbps to audition as well. He's got a $4K system and uses 320 almost exclusively and it sounds phenomenal. And yes, you can tell the differences between the equipment.
 
Some people may not be able to hear the differences which is perfectly fine; we are not those people.



 
Using Spotify and 320k MP3 means you are not audiophiles. You'd be better off with a $100 boom box from Walmart

 
 
so what in your op is a real 'audiophile'?  
 
seems even seasoned muscians and artists buy itunes and use streaming...guess they're not real
audiophiles either.
http://www.vulture.com/2016/01/25-musicians-on-how-they-stream-music.html

From Miley Cyrus to Baz Luhrmann, 29 Musicians and Celebs on How They Stream Music

taking this argument to cars, then I guess all those driving some BMW 3 or 5 series are posers, too,.....a 'real driver'  would only
be behind a porsche turbo 911s...or a ferrari or a lambo...or a Rolls Royce...us the rest of us are wanabees, esp god help all those delusional in their thinking that they're being a real driver behind their mazdas, hondas, acuras, and affinitis.
 
and your own system...what equipment do you have?
source (flac etc) might be one thing, but what of the real audiophile equipment translating it?
i would presume if your home audio system it's not a $50k-100k hi fi system
then you're not a 'real audiophile' but are somewhat of a poser.
and if your dap is not some $3k AK380 then you're not really into true audiophile territory, either.
 
but hey, maybe you can have a great FLAC source and great equipment ....
but what if the equipment you use on your perfect source is overly coloured?
so what of all those in the 'bassheads' forum, given what many of their members listen to (top end FLAC, etc) gets inevitably twisted out of shape with their bass heavy iems and cans...guess they can't be 'real audiophiles' either
 
don't get me wrong: i hear you on the sound quality of streaming vs true lossless or CDs etc.  
but quality level streaming (spotify extreme, tidal)  is not nearly as crap bad as a boombox as your
hyperbole makes it out to be...and like i said initally: streaming quality will only to get better as this area grows and
more people demand better bitrate transmissions.  for me streaming has opened up many great new artists/venues to listen to.
and for many headfiers, to varying degrees, use both...each (lossless etc) and streaming have their place. and for many who like streaming, it's also about convenience and easy access to new material.
 
i did also try Tidal, btw, and while there was some difference between it and spotify extreme, it just 
didn't warrant the additional $10 (which i would have paid for had there been truly a significant diff).
 
 lastly just so you know, i'm also trying to fit more loss less in.  
 
i'll check out those other sites members on here have suggested.
 
May 14, 2016 at 12:37 PM Post #2,402 of 2,500

HerrWallen

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Audiophile or not, there are subtle differences between Spotify 320 and a regular mp3 @ 320 imho.
The treble seems smoother, almost a tad smeared in comparison.
I generally find that the sense of air is better contained in high quality flac compared to all of the above.
But, and this is a big but, the quality of source production is also a key factor here.
Badly mastered music sound pretty much the same on high fi as low fi, bad.
 
May 14, 2016 at 2:47 PM Post #2,403 of 2,500

JWolf

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Just because someone else buys from iTunes does not means it's OK for testing stereo equipment. What you really want is to pick music that tests the equipment. Music that has good imaging, good dynamics, good bass, good mids, and good highs. Also, you want to pick music that doesn't sound so good and to do that you don't want lossy compressing changing things because it might not be good enough. Like a sizzling high-end, AAC/MP3 is going to change that. So when you want o hear how the stereo equipment handles different things, you want to make sure you have enough of the audio to test. AAC/MP3 changes the soundstage so it's not as good. Instruments do not have the separation they would otherwise. The high-end can be softened by the cutoff. Bass is not as deep, mids are a bit weaker. Lossy changes the music so you lose out. You want music to do what you want it to do and not that it is doing because some of it is gone.
 
May 14, 2016 at 3:34 PM Post #2,404 of 2,500

396629

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Audiophile or not, there are subtle differences between Spotify 320 and a regular mp3 @ 320 imho.
The treble seems smoother, almost a tad smeared in comparison.
I generally find that the sense of air is better contained in high quality flac compared to all of the above.
But, and this is a big but, the quality of source production is also a key factor here.
Badly mastered music sound pretty much the same on high fi as low fi, bad.

Could the difference be due to the OGG Vorbis codec being used by Spotify. At one time before lossless was common OGG was believed to sound smoother less harsh than mp3 at a given, and especially lower, bit rate. I may well be wrong on this point but it sounds good for what it is to me  !
 
May 14, 2016 at 4:24 PM Post #2,405 of 2,500

HerrWallen

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Could the difference be due to the OGG Vorbis codec being used by Spotify. At one time before lossless was common OGG was believed to sound smoother less harsh than mp3 at a given, and especially lower, bit rate. I may well be wrong on this point but it sounds good for what it is to me  !


I didn' know that Spotify used Vorbis but it makes sense, iirc OGG should save both valuable storage-space and licencing costs.

Regarding the characteristics I'll take your word for it, Spotify is my only experience with Vorbis and to be honest I don't know if it's better or not, different absolutely.

No matter what, Spotify is still what I use about 80% of the time and for the most of that time I think it sounds really good.

I have based allot of my purchases on it.
 
May 14, 2016 at 5:06 PM Post #2,406 of 2,500

stuck limo

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so what in your op is a real 'audiophile'?  
 
seems even seasoned muscians and artists buy itunes and use streaming...guess they're not real
audiophiles either.
http://www.vulture.com/2016/01/25-musicians-on-how-they-stream-music.html

From Miley Cyrus to Baz Luhrmann, 29 Musicians and Celebs on How They Stream Music

taking this argument to cars, then I guess all those driving some BMW 3 or 5 series are posers, too,.....a 'real driver'  would only
be behind a porsche turbo 911s...or a ferrari or a lambo...or a Rolls Royce...us the rest of us are wanabees, esp god help all those delusional in their thinking that they're being a real driver behind their mazdas, hondas, acuras, and affinitis.
 
and your own system...what equipment do you have?
source (flac etc) might be one thing, but what of the real audiophile equipment translating it?
i would presume if your home audio system it's not a $50k-100k hi fi system
then you're not a 'real audiophile' but are somewhat of a poser.
and if your dap is not some $3k AK380 then you're not really into true audiophile territory, either.
 
but hey, maybe you can have a great FLAC source and great equipment ....
but what if the equipment you use on your perfect source is overly coloured?
so what of all those in the 'bassheads' forum, given what many of their members listen to (top end FLAC, etc) gets inevitably twisted out of shape with their bass heavy iems and cans...guess they can't be 'real audiophiles' either
 
don't get me wrong: i hear you on the sound quality of streaming vs true lossless or CDs etc.  
but quality level streaming (spotify extreme, tidal)  is not nearly as crap bad as a boombox as your
hyperbole makes it out to be...and like i said initally: streaming quality will only to get better as this area grows and
more people demand better bitrate transmissions.  for me streaming has opened up many great new artists/venues to listen to.
and for many headfiers, to varying degrees, use both...each (lossless etc) and streaming have their place. and for many who like streaming, it's also about convenience and easy access to new material.
 
i did also try Tidal, btw, and while there was some difference between it and spotify extreme, it just 
didn't warrant the additional $10 (which i would have paid for had there been truly a significant diff).
 
 lastly just so you know, i'm also trying to fit more loss less in.  
 
i'll check out those other sites members on here have suggested.

 
On that note, there have been multiple reports of Tidal sounding WORSE than Spotify or Apple Music.
 
And what of Mastered for iTunes material that actually sounds better than lossless versions? Are we not to use those?
 
Also, I find that if equipment can make 320kbps material sound amazing, then it'll make the lossless sound even more amazing. If it can handle lesser files well, that is a very good indication of the quality of the equipment.
 
May 14, 2016 at 8:20 PM Post #2,407 of 2,500

canali

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Yes i agree...See that verge review.. Even go to the end...that is what the reviewer said of tidal...mixed results in blind testing w Spotify and Apple.

On that note, there have been multiple reports of Tidal sounding WORSE than Spotify or Apple Music.

And what of Mastered for iTunes material that actually sounds better than lossless versions? Are we not to use those?

Also, I find that if equipment can make 320kbps material sound amazing, then it'll make the lossless sound even more amazing. If it can handle lesser files well, that is a very good indication of the quality of the equipment.
 
May 15, 2016 at 5:59 AM Post #2,408 of 2,500

GerMan

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Really off topic now, could we come back to Dragonfly please
wink.gif

 
May 16, 2016 at 4:11 AM Post #2,411 of 2,500

willyvlyminck

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so what in your op is a real 'audiophile'?  

seems even seasoned muscians and artists buy itunes and use streaming...guess they're not real
audiophiles either.
http://www.vulture.com/2016/01/25-musicians-on-how-they-stream-music.html

From Miley Cyrus to Baz Luhrmann, 29 Musicians and Celebs on How They Stream Music



taking this argument to cars, then I guess all those driving some BMW 3 or 5 series are posers, too,.....a 'real driver'  would only
be behind a porsche turbo 911s...or a ferrari or a lambo...or a Rolls Royce...us the rest of us are wanabees, esp god help all those delusional in their thinking that they're being a real driver behind their mazdas, hondas, acuras, and affinitis.

and your own system...what equipment do you have?
source (flac etc) might be one thing, but what of the real audiophile equipment translating it?
i would presume if your home audio system it's not a $50k-100k hi fi system
then you're not a 'real audiophile' but are somewhat of a poser.
and if your dap is not some $3k AK380 then you're not really into true audiophile territory, either.

but hey, maybe you can have a great FLAC source and great equipment ....
but what if the equipment you use on your perfect source is overly coloured?
so what of all those in the 'bassheads' forum, given what many of their members listen to (top end FLAC, etc) gets inevitably twisted out of shape with their bass heavy iems and cans...guess they can't be 'real audiophiles' either


 


don't get me wrong: i hear you on the sound quality of streaming vs true lossless or CDs etc.  
but quality level streaming (spotify extreme, tidal)  is not nearly as crap bad as a boombox as your
hyperbole makes it out to be...and like i said initally: streaming quality will only to get better as this area grows and
more people demand better bitrate transmissions.  for me streaming has opened up many great new artists/venues to listen to.
and for many headfiers, to varying degrees, use both...each (lossless etc) and streaming have their place. and for many who like streaming, it's also about convenience and easy access to new material.

i did also try Tidal, btw, and while there was some difference between it and spotify extreme, it just 
didn't warrant the additional $10 (which i would have paid for had there been truly a significant diff).

 lastly just so you know, i'm also trying to fit more loss less in.  

i'll check out those other sites members on here have suggested.
is it worth to react on such fools who call themselves audiophiles as if it is a kind of religion? I know a lot of producers and sound engineers who use non "audiophile" headphones, as in any business they look for the best price/ quality products to work with, so I rather trust those prople than selfdeclared audiophiles
 
May 16, 2016 at 7:09 AM Post #2,413 of 2,500

brent75

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I can't think of a more "looking down my nose at you" snooty sentiment than telling people they're not 'audiophiles' based on how they decide to do something. No wonder people make fun of this hobby.
 
It's one thing to give friendly advice about how you think something should be undertaken, e.g. "if you take high quality tracks stored locally vs streaming, you'll probably have a better chance at discerning differences between options you're considering, and thus making a more informed decision."
 
But just serving it up under "if you do it that way you're not an audiophile, bro" is laughable.
 
Besides, I think it's perfectly logical to audition gear based on how you're going to use it. If you're going to stream a lot, it's perfectly acceptable to stream before you buy. If I live in snowy conditions and am buying an SUV, I don't drive it once on dry pavement and call it a day.
 
The DragonFly Red is awesome -- I use it + the JitterBug all the time! (now we're back on topic)
 
 
Carry on...
 

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