[seamon]

They look and sound great! Just a question, I'm seeing people complain about the drivers stopping working and other issues. Has any of that, or other durability issues been a problem for you?

Audeze QC problems have mostly been solved for 2016 LCD Fazor headphones.
Even if you do get a driver fail, you have a 3 year transferable warranty that resets everytime you replace the drivers(free or paid)

 

[Music Alchemist]

I don't think Electrostats would be a good choice for the kind of music you listen to. Electrostats have a very thin-bodyish signature and pop,rap and hip-hop tend to sound lifeless on them. Electrostats are some of the best in the world for detail retrieval, soundstage and openess but for the kind of music you listen to, Electrostatic headphones would be a very bad choice. You would also have to pay upward of 1k to get a good amp too because Electrostats also sound very bad on the stock STAX amps.

I strongly disagree. All of the electrostats I owned (driven by entry-level amps) sounded very realistic to me with virtually all types of music—far more so than any other driver technology, even when compared to non-electrostats that cost thousands and driven by DAC/amps that cost just as much. I think most planar magnetics are overly lush, rounded-off, and smoothed-over. They still sound good, but don't impress me. In fact, electrostats are the least-lifeless headphones I've heard. Their rapid transient speed and lack of distortion brings the music to life.

 

[dudlew]

Hello,

Wish I had your budget... LOL. But glad you have that budget that you can work with and get great gear.

I will give you my standard advice..... Listen if you can. Always remember peoples ears are different, and these recommendations that you get would be based on somebody's opinion of the sound. Not saying that they are bad, but it would be wise to read as many posts as you can to see if you can figure out the point of reference for the people giving the recs. and see if their tastes are similar to yours.

But mainly listen. Go out and listen, see if there are any meets close by and listen. And if you are in the US but far from stores etc... try this.... https://www.thecableco.com/Product/NEW-Headphone-Lending-Library

It may be just what you need.

 

[seamon]

I strongly disagree. All of the electrostats I owned (driven by entry-level amps) sounded very realistic to me with virtually all types of music—far more so than any other driver technology, even when compared to non-electrostats that cost thousands. I think most planar magnetics are overly lush, rounded-off, and smoothed-over. They still sound good, but don't impress me. In fact, electrostats are the least-lifeless headphones I've heard. Their rapid transient speed and lack of distortion brings the music to life.

Also Electrostats reveal a lot of detail which can lead poorly mastered pop music to sound pretty darn bad. Just my opinion, you might like pop with electrostats. Pop definitely sounded very bad on the $50K Hifiman Electrostats but then again, that's Hifiman.

Also @OP consider using the classifieds section to buy some pre-owned gear to figure out what you like instead of blindly going for a $1.5K purchase and even better try to go to a meet or something.

 

[Keenix]

Audeze QC problems have mostly been solved for 2016 LCD Fazor headphones.
Even if you do get a driver fail, you have a 3 year transferable warranty that resets everytime you replace the drivers(free or paid)

Oh that's awesome of them! Sounds like a great company.

I don't think Electrostats would be a good choice for the kind of music you listen to. Electrostats have a very thin-bodyish signature and pop,rap and hip-hop tend to sound lifeless on them. Electrostats are some of the best in the world for detail retrieval, soundstage and openess but for the kind of music you listen to, Electrostatic headphones would be a very bad choice. You would also have to pay upward of 1k to get a good amp too because Electrostats also sound very bad on the stock STAX amps.

I would suggest
LCD 2/3 - Overall Good dark sounding headphone. LCD 3 especially sounds very good with Pop. I own a pair and listen mostly to Pop, some hip-hop, rap, rock, Alternate Rock.
HEX V2 - Sounds very Open and very good for the genres you listed, might lack a bit body compared to LCDs.
ZMF Eikon/Atticus - Some of the best closed cans if you want closed.

I was worried about Electrostats sounding bad on the cheaper amps. They seem like a perfect choice for the audiophiles that listen to classical or music that's composed insanely well, but that's not me. LCDs are looking like a good choice, is there any really big difference to make me pay the extra $500 for LCD 3s instead of the Fazors, and do you think they'd work well on my Mk2 while I save up for a better amp?

Electrostatic amps can be solid state, tube, or hybrid, and can range from a few hundred dollars to five figures.

In the second part of your post, it seems that you understand you can't use a non-electrostatic headphone amp to drive electrostats, but in the first part, you make it seem like you think you can. I'm not sure what you mean about tube amps not being able to drive them as well. All of the top-tier electrostatic amps are either tube hybrids or all tube (the KGSSHV Carbon is solid state, but is generally considered to be a level below the best amps available), but that doesn't apply to anyone but the most hardcore enthusiasts.

There are countless conventional headphone amps that don't cost much at all that can drive ultra-high-end non-electrostatic headphones. And there are DAC/amps that can do digital to analog conversion and drive headphones from the same unit. (Chord are my favorite in that category, though they're not cheap.)

Here's the link to keep track of Head-Fi meets: https://www.head-fi.org/forums/local-regional-head-fi-meets-parties-get-togethers.24/

As for the LCD-2, it's on the darker side of neutral. You won't need to worry about brightness with it.

But you can use a free parametric equalizer to tweak the tonal balance of any headphone to any frequency response you want. Tonal balance is the least important factor for me since it's one of the few things you can change about a headphone.

If you want to buy new, then you won't be able to get the SR-L700 and an amp; you'd have to go with a more affordable model there.

I meant that the cheaper electrostatic amps wouldn't run them well. I know you can't use a non electrostatic amp for them. Thanks for the link. When you say the darker side, how's the bass on them? I think I'd much rather have the bass just be there but not super boomy, but I think I can change that.

I strongly disagree. All of the electrostats I owned (driven by entry-level amps) sounded very realistic to me with virtually all types of music—far more so than any other driver technology, even when compared to non-electrostats that cost thousands and driven by DAC/amps that cost just as much. I think most planar magnetics are overly lush, rounded-off, and smoothed-over. They still sound good, but don't impress me. In fact, electrostats are the least-lifeless headphones I've heard. Their rapid transient speed and lack of distortion brings the music to life.

Electrostatic seems like a big move. Looking into it, it's supposedly a lot different and if I don't like it returning seems hard. All opinions aside, how do you think electrostatics would suit me, giving my music preferences and what I've mentioned in this thread?

Hello,

Wish I had your budget... LOL. But glad you have that budget that you can work with and get great gear.

I will give you my standard advice..... Listen if you can. Always remember peoples ears are different, and these recommendations that you get would be based on somebody's opinion of the sound. Not saying that they are bad, but it would be wise to read as many posts as you can to see if you can figure out the point of reference for the people giving the recs. and see if their tastes are similar to yours.

But mainly listen. Go out and listen, see if there are any meets close by and listen. And if you are in the US but far from stores etc... try this.... https://www.thecableco.com/Product/NEW-Headphone-Lending-Library

It may be just what you need.

I'm in Ontario, Canada, near Toronto/New York, Otherwise I would. I'll look more into my area, I think I listening is a good choice and I'm sure Toronto would have some places.

 

[Keenix]

Also Electrostats reveal a lot of detail which can lead poorly mastered pop music to sound pretty darn bad. Just my opinion, you might like pop with electrostats. Pop definitely sounded very bad on the $50K Hifiman Electrostats but then again, that's Hifiman.

Also @OP consider using the classifieds section to buy some pre-owned gear to figure out what you like instead of blindly going for a $1.5K purchase and even better try to go to a meet or something.

I'll check out the classifieds section and im looking into meets around Toronto and the West end of New York

 

[seamon]

Oh that's awesome of them! Sounds like a great company.


I was worried about Electrostats sounding bad on the cheaper amps. They seem like a perfect choice for the audiophiles that listen to classical or music that's composed insanely well, but that's not me. LCDs are looking like a good choice, is there any really big difference to make me pay the extra $500 for LCD 3s instead of the Fazors, and do you think they'd work well on my Mk2 while I save up for a better amp?

Audeze CS is a breeze to deal with. They are very good and reply within minutes.

Fazor is a new feature in the Audeze LCD lineup that was introduced in 2014/15 and revised in 2016. So 2016 Fazors is the latest revision of Audeze headphones with new drivers and Fazors installed.

If the $1000 difference for the LCD 3 over the LCD 2 is worth it is up to you but I would consider LCD 3 to be an upgrade to LCD 2 in every possible way by about 25-30% which is a significant improvement in headfi in my opinion. You can get a pair of 2016 Fazor LCD 3 for around 1300-1400 on the forums I suppose and maybe even cheaper if you haggle well.

What do you mean by mk2?

 

[Keenix]

Audeze CS is a breeze to deal with. They are very good and reply within minutes.

Fazor is a new feature in the Audeze LCD lineup that was introduced in 2014/15 and revised in 2016. So 2016 Fazors is the latest revision of Audeze headphones with new drivers and Fazors installed.

If the $1000 difference for the LCD 3 over the LCD 2 is worth it is up to you but I would consider LCD 3 to be an upgrade to LCD 2 in every possible way by about 25-30% which is a significant improvement in headfi in my opinion. You can get a pair of 2016 Fazor LCD 3 for around 1300-1400 on the forums I suppose and maybe even cheaper if you haggle well.

What do you mean by mk2?

Sorry, I'm currently using a Little Dot MK2. It's a tube amp and I'm still a bit baffled on how to make sure an amp can run a pair of headphones. Since it's a cheaper amp I'm not convinced it will run on some of these or all of these higher end headphones. I think the LCD 3 Fazors are the way to go but I'm wondering how much more expensive they'd be since I'm in Canada, the LCD 2s looked to be something I could deal with because there were sites that shipped to Canada but with the 3s it seems most don't ship to Canada for cheap

 

[Muinarc]

There seems to be some activity for a possible Toronto meet.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ic-gta-area-summer-meet.855227/

 

[Music Alchemist]

Also Electrostats reveal a lot of detail which can lead poorly mastered pop music to sound pretty darn bad. Just my opinion, you might like pop with electrostats. Pop definitely sounded very bad on the $50K Hifiman Electrostats but then again, that's Hifiman.

Also @OP consider using the classifieds section to buy some pre-owned gear to figure out what you like instead of blindly going for a $1.5K purchase and even better try to go to a meet or something.

True. But I like getting as close to what's on the recording as possible. Pop never sounded bad to me on 'stats. (Then again, I have no unrealistic expectations of poorly-mastered pop sounding as good as an orchestral performance. I also love raw extreme metal on 'stats. hehe)

He mentioned that he wants to buy new so he's able to return them.

I meant that the cheaper electrostatic amps wouldn't run them well. I know you can't use a non electrostatic amp for them. Thanks for the link. When you say the darker side, how's the bass on them? I think I'd much rather have the bass just be there but not super boomy, but I think I can change that.

They drive them just fine. All of my comments about STAX are based on driving them with STAX's entry-level amps. I know people who actually prefer entry-level electrostatic amps over ones that cost thousands, at least for driving Lambdas.

Planar magnetics have very linear bass that generally measures as a straight line. When I said on the dark side of neutral, I meant the upper frequencies are less prominent than neutral.

Electrostatic seems like a big move. Looking into it, it's supposedly a lot different and if I don't like it returning seems hard. All opinions aside, how do you think electrostatics would suit me, giving my music preferences and what I've mentioned in this thread?

There aren't many US dealers, and the ones that exist are often out of stock, so yeah, that could be an issue. But here's one trustworthy dealer:

https://www.headamp.com/product-category/headphones/electrostatic-headphones
https://www.headamp.com/product-category/amplifiers/electrostatic-amplifiers

As for Canadian dealers, you could look into that.

Music preferences don't tell me how you want the music to sound. Are you after accuracy or do you, for example, want something more forgiving? As I've stated, I don't think STAX is lacking in any area as far as accuracy goes. But if you want something more forgiving that covers up more flaws in recordings, the LCD-2F could be more down your alley. (The LCD-X is better, but you can't buy it new within your budget.) I really think Audeze is a horrible value compared to STAX, though. They're heavy as heck too.

Sorry, I'm currently using a Little Dot MK2. It's a tube amp and I'm still a bit baffled on how to make sure an amp can run a pair of headphones. Since it's a cheaper amp I'm not convinced it will run on some of these or all of these higher end headphones.

You can learn about driving headphones here: http://apexhifi.com/specs.html

 

[dudlew]

http://www.headfoneshop.com/#

 

[seamon]

Sorry, I'm currently using a Little Dot MK2. It's a tube amp and I'm still a bit baffled on how to make sure an amp can run a pair of headphones. Since it's a cheaper amp I'm not convinced it will run on some of these or all of these higher end headphones. I think the LCD 3 Fazors are the way to go but I'm wondering how much more expensive they'd be since I'm in Canada, the LCD 2s looked to be something I could deal with because there were sites that shipped to Canada but with the 3s it seems most don't ship to Canada for cheap

The amp should probably be fine for the LCD 3. I haven't heard so can't comment much. In my opinion, headphone and amp combo is all about pairing. Some headphones can sound awful on expensive amps and better on cheap amps(However, generally it's the opposite).

LCD 3 sounds great on the Mojo for the price. I am using a CMA600i which sounds absolutely breathtaking.

I would still urge you to try buying pre-owned if you aren't 100% sure. You can always sell for almost the same amount later.

 

[Muinarc]

I just remembered, the Focal Elear is pretty affordable and would work well with those genres of music. They wont break your neck like the heavy LCDs too

 

[seamon]

Yea @OP, do keep in mind that the LCDs are pretty darn heavy(500-600 grams). I would recommend the Lohb strap and spacers if you ever do go the LCD route

 

[Keenix]

There seems to be some activity for a possible Toronto meet.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ic-gta-area-summer-meet.855227/

Thanks. I've subscribed

True. But I like getting as close to what's on the recording as possible. Pop never sounded bad to me on 'stats. (Then again, I have no unrealistic expectations of poorly-mastered pop sounding as good as an orchestral performance. I also love raw extreme metal on 'stats. hehe)

He mentioned that he wants to buy new so he's able to return them.



They drive them just fine. All of my comments about STAX are based on driving them with STAX's entry-level amps. I know people who actually prefer entry-level electrostatic amps over ones that cost thousands, at least for driving Lambdas.

Planar magnetics have very linear bass that generally measures as a straight line. When I said on the dark side of neutral, I meant the upper frequencies are less prominent than neutral.



There aren't many US dealers, and the ones that exist are often out of stock, so yeah, that could be an issue. But here's one trustworthy dealer:

https://www.headamp.com/product-category/headphones/electrostatic-headphones
https://www.headamp.com/product-category/amplifiers/electrostatic-amplifiers

As for Canadian dealers, you could look into that.

Music preferences don't tell me how you want the music to sound. Are you after accuracy or do you, for example, want something more forgiving? As I've stated, I don't think STAX is lacking in any area as far as accuracy goes. But if you want something more forgiving that covers up more flaws in recordings, the LCD-2F could be more down your alley. (The LCD-X is better, but you can't buy it new within your budget.) I really think Audeze is a horrible value compared to STAX, though. They're heavy as heck too.



You can learn about driving headphones here: http://apexhifi.com/specs.html

Thanks for the link, it'll be useful. Being heavy isn't a problem as I'd buy the $200 support cushion thing. Also, I'm looking for something more forgiving, warm, however I'd still like to hear the song almost as it was made. I don't listen to classical or anything that I'd need to hear every little thing.

http://www.headfoneshop.com/#

Looks sketchy but I think it's just the bad website design. I'll check it out because it seems like you're able to try the stuff there. Thanks so much!

The amp should probably be fine for the LCD 3. I haven't heard so can't comment much. In my opinion, headphone and amp combo is all about pairing. Some headphones can sound awful on expensive amps and better on cheap amps(However, generally it's the opposite).

LCD 3 sounds great on the Mojo for the price. I am using a CMA600i which sounds absolutely breathtaking.

I would still urge you to try buying pre-owned if you aren't 100% sure. You can always sell for almost the same amount later.

I'd be able to return buying new in most places. If it's able to run on the MK2 I think I'd be able to buy the LCD3s while I saved up for a better amp. Electrostatics still seem good though.

I just remembered, the Focal Elear is pretty affordable and would work well with those genres of music. They wont break your neck like the heavy LCDs too

They look great! How do they compare to the LCD 2 and 3 Fazors?

Yea @OP, do keep in mind that the LCDs are pretty darn heavy(500-600 grams). I would recommend the Lohb strap and spacers if you ever do go the LCD route

Was my plan if I did, thanks!