[swaffleman]

Does anyone else use these tests to try out their headphones and their ability to hear certain frequencies?

https://www.audiocheck.net/

I've been told by a few friends that humans cannot hear below 20 hertz and thus they don't believe that can hear lower than that. However, there is a test on this site that begins at 10 hertz. With my Senny HD 380 Pros, I can hear a very low, indiscernible rumbling almost immediately at 10 hertz. This rumbling takes more shape as it approaches 30 hertz and gradually become a discernible pitch.

Could this be distortion I'm hearing instead? I tried the test with my PX 200 II's and I don't really hear anything until 20 hertz with them, but I've read the the PX 200 II's have noticeable roll off on the extreme low end.

I can also hear around 18,000 or 19,000 hertz on the upper range sound clip on that site.

What do you guys think about this site?

 

[bigshot]

If you turned up the volume because it was too quiet, it's probably distortion. Be careful with that. With super high frequencies you can easily get things loud enough to fry your ears without knowing it.

 

[baskingshark]

Actually I was wondering about these audio tests online, we should be using as neutrally tuned IEM/headphone (closed back) as possible for this right?
If we use gear which have non neutral tuning, by default certain frequencies will be recessed or boosted, so that may not be accurate for hearing tests?

 

[swaffleman]

I THINK I didn't have it up very loudly. I've been trying to be more aware of making sure I don't listen at too high a volume as I do have a very slight case of tinnitus (this is likely from years in playing in loud orchestras...you know, brass and all that).

But with the HD380 Pro's I definitely heard the low rumbling around 10 hertz.

 

[TronII]

I THINK I didn't have it up very loudly. I've been trying to be more aware of making sure I don't listen at too high a volume as I do have a very slight case of tinnitus (this is likely from years in playing in loud orchestras...you know, brass and all that).

But with the HD380 Pro's I definitely heard the low rumbling around 10 hertz.

No matter what, humans can't hear all the way down to 10Hz (which is mentioned on the site the tests are on) if you hear anything when playing a tone that low, it's distortion.

 

[swaffleman]

Huh...strange that the HD 380 pros revealed more distortion or perhaps have more than the PX 200 II's.

 

[castleofargh]

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD380Pro.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserPX200IIi.pdf
1/ for a similar subjective listening level, one will clearly have more bass. as testing hearing thresholds with tones is obviously a matter of how loud the tone is, along with our own hearing limits, the louder bass will let you perceive stuff at lower tones.

on this you can see that the average threshold for 20Hz seems to fall around 75dB SPL. so making sure the 20Hz tone is at least that loud is pretty important to decide if we do or do not perceive it. ^_^ we can expect that our hearing doesn't just stop dead at 20Hz for everybody, just like it doesn't stop dead at 16 or 17kHz(or at 20kHz) for everybody. if you make something crazy loud, chances are that you will end up hearing, or at least feeling it. I do not recommend trying because you only have that one set of ears and crazy loud sounds will damage them!!!! you should never increase the listening level to a value where it's too loud for you with midrange tones. but all that to say that the listening level can change the limits of what you perceive.
2/ if what you're hearing is distortion, you have to remember that those new frequencies are a product of the original signal. if the measurements are correct(they often aren't on innerfidelity), and we said one headphone has 3% THD and the other 10% at 10Hz, that's about 10dB louder distos on the PX 200. but at the same time, if you set the listening level by ear, then you probably end up with the midrange at relatively similar levels. that would mean some 20 or 25dB quieter signal on the PX 200 compared to the other one. so still much quieter overall amplitude for the test tone and all the possible extra signals caused by distortions.
3/ when going down to such frequencies, it is possible that the headphone itself is shaking and that could be felt like sound, or at least subjectively give an impression of stronger sound.

 

[TronII]

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD380Pro.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserPX200IIi.pdf
1/ for a similar subjective listening level, one will clearly have more bass. as testing hearing thresholds with tones is obviously a matter of how loud the tone is, along with our own hearing limits, the louder bass will let you perceive stuff at lower tones.

on this you can see that the average threshold for 20Hz seems to fall around 75dB SPL. so making sure the 20Hz tone is at least that loud is pretty important to decide if we do or do not perceive it. ^_^ we can expect that our hearing doesn't just stop dead at 20Hz for everybody, just like it doesn't stop dead at 16 or 17kHz(or at 20kHz) for everybody. if you make something crazy loud, chances are that you will end up hearing, or at least feeling it. I do not recommend trying because you only have that one set of ears and crazy loud sounds will damage them!!!! you should never increase the listening level to a value where it's too loud for you with midrange tones. but all that to say that the listening level can change the limits of what you perceive.
2/ if what you're hearing is distortion, you have to remember that those new frequencies are a product of the original signal. if the measurements are correct(they often aren't on innerfidelity), and we said one headphone has 3% THD and the other 10% at 10Hz, that's about 10dB louder distos on the PX 200. but at the same time, if you set the listening level by ear, then you probably end up with the midrange at relatively similar levels. that would mean some 20 or 25dB quieter signal on the PX 200 compared to the other one. so still much quieter overall amplitude for the test tone and all the possible extra signals caused by distortions.
3/ when going down to such frequencies, it is possible that the headphone itself is shaking and that could be felt like sound, or at least subjectively give an impression of stronger sound.

What makes Innerfidelity's measurements inaccurate?

 

[castleofargh]

What makes Innerfidelity's measurements inaccurate?

they show THD+noise. for years, guys making amateur measurements would on occasion get significantly improved THD at 90 or 100dB and wonder WTH was going on on Tyll's THD+N graphs. I don't think that Tyll ever tried to hide the potential issue I think I even remember him talking about trucks down the road or something like that once. and it's not his fault or a surprise, if the initial tone is around 90dB SPL, 1% THD means stuff at 50dB SPL recorded by the mic, for low frequencies that's trivial to get that level of ambient noise as windows or a little foam is not going to properly stop those long waves. so for relatively clean headphones that actually stay well below 1%, noise in the room and distortions are often going to fight over which is loudest.
I really struggle myself to get something I could consider accurate(in fact despite my best efforts, I'm not getting even close for THD graphs). when I see Jude's results and mine on the same IEM or headphone, I start leaking salt water from my visual organs.

 

[TronII]

they show THD+noise. for years, guys making amateur measurements would on occasion get significantly improved THD at 90 or 100dB and wonder WTH was going on on Tyll's THD+N graphs. I don't think that Tyll ever tried to hide the potential issue I think I even remember him talking about trucks down the road or something like that once. and it's not his fault or a surprise, if the initial tone is around 90dB SPL, 1% THD means stuff at 50dB SPL recorded by the mic, for low frequencies that's trivial to get that level of ambient noise as windows or a little foam is not going to properly stop those long waves. so for relatively clean headphones that actually stay well below 1%, noise in the room and distortions are often going to fight over which is loudest.
I really struggle myself to get something I could consider accurate(in fact despite my best efforts, I'm not getting even close for THD graphs). when I see Jude's results and mine on the same IEM or headphone, I start leaking salt water from my visual organs.

I think he mentioned ambient noise from outside the chamber getting in and messing with the result, since it is THD PLUS noise.

 

[swaffleman]

hmm...

IF those innerfidelity measurements are accurate (they may not be as we have just discussed), then I either actually am hearing the frequency that low, or I'm hearing the actual mechanism of the drivers themselves wobbling producing the tone. Or something to that effect...all I can say is that the sound is a very low pitched, quiet rumbling. Almost like distant thunder. Again, I do not hear it with the PX200 II's (which appear to have significant roll off going from those inner fidelity graphs), but the HD 380 Pros produce the sound. But if the distortion graphs are accurate, the HD380 Pros have less distortion on the lower end.

Who knows though.

 

[swaffleman]

And yeah, I make sure I don't have the volume up anymore than I typically would for regular music listening. I am pretty good at noticing when something is uncomfortably loud. I would say I typically keep the volume when using my HD 380 Pros (those are my go to headphones these days for serious listening) at around 60-70%, depending on the recording. Anymore than that and I can feel discomfort.

 

[TronII]

And yeah, I make sure I don't have the volume up anymore than I typically would for regular music listening. I am pretty good at noticing when something is uncomfortably loud. I would say I typically keep the volume when using my HD 380 Pros (those are my go to headphones these days for serious listening) at around 60-70%, depending on the recording. Anymore than that and I can feel discomfort.

What do you mean by "60%-70%" volume? What are you listening on?

 

[swaffleman]

What do you mean by "60%-70%" volume? What are you listening on?

My phone, typically. I do notice it doesn't power the headphones as loudly as my work computer does. If I listen through the PC I have the volume much lower.

 

[swaffleman]

UPDATE:

I tried out this site, https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/.

I officially hear actual tone around 16-17 hertz. I hear sound below that but it sounds like an oscillation, like listening through a fan (am I hearing just the mechanism of the driver itself working?). Going below 16 hertz there is absolutely no discernible tone.