[SSandDigital]

Listening on my OP 6T phone via the dongle (not a dongle dac / amp, passive). I am at about 40% volume, surprised by that.

 

[SSandDigital]

Just curous doesBH crack really fix the HD600 hash mids and soundstage and imaging issues? Because on the fiio k5 pro it was a really disappointing experience.

I don't have tube or the 600s. But I have HD58x and tragically my HD650s were sent to the landfill, ex thought the 650 case was empty...

IMO Senn house sound isn't for everybody. They definitely have that veil I comparison to other headphones and narrowest soundstage of any open headphones. 58x are clearer than 650. I am not of opinion of headphones requiring a specific setup to listen to. 58x are fine if I just want a non fatiguing sound, k712 are definitely my preference but they do get tiring. If I don't enjoy headphones through my other setups, phone, laptop etc then not worth keeping around. If you need to buy additional hardware to make 600 sound listenable... I dunno probably just not your cup of tea.

600s sell well thankfully or maybe you can still return.

 

[llysender]

@kman1211 Thanks for the info. Personally im interested in eddie current amps but with them going out of bisness its going to be harder to demo one. Yeah i can see people liking how tubes colour the sound if they are looking for something more mid centric as tubes really make the vocals pop for me.

@SSandDigital yeah the r70x sounds pretty nice underdriven but the bass part really wants power. Well to my ears the hd600 has quite nice upper upper mids to trebble so i dont have a issue with the viel. The issue i have when i owned one was everything bellow that and the general feeling that i was listening to a cheap closed back. I sold it off a year back but since kman and slim were talking about 6X0 i just thought i ask.

 

[SSandDigital]

So one of the interesting software I use on the desktop occasionally is Sonarworks 4. Headphones like my K712 or A990z which are clearly colored with their wonderful flavor of sound, sound very different with Sonarworks applied. Headphones that are more balanced like HD58x do not sound fairly similar. R70x is the same. Difference between Sonar applied and off with R70x is miniscule in comparison. Goes to show I guess wasn't much for the Sonarworks folks to do to EQ the R70x.

 

[SilverEars]

I've been looking all over for a response curve because it's been compared to K712 Pro on Minidisk's (Lachlan's) video review and I hate the K712 sound so much. It's not that terrible, but sounded dull with hardly any mids definition.

I've been looking around to see if it's similar with the K712, but the response look different, and now puzzled why two were pointed out together. The R70X looks kinds mids centric with upper-mids emphasis and treble roll-off.

Anybody have opinions that has heard the K712? What's perplexing is that Minidisk stating K712 is better refined, that's casuing somewhat of a disinterest because I don't find K712 all that refined.

Where can I find the more accurate measurements?



I posted these two due to the result having consistancies

 

[SilverEars]

R70x and HD600 comparison of raw responses measured from Innerfidelity

 

[adgun]

@adgun Thanks for reccing hybrid amps. I got a xduoo ta-02 and the r70x is much fuller now without sacrificing detail. Very good for pop, rock, metal, classical. I do think that edm still benifits from pure SS with its airer texture letting the sound scape play out without bloating the sound.

yep, thats true, but that also can be fixed if you using silver cable on r70x
to make it all rounder cans with tube amps.

 

[SSandDigital]

I've been looking all over for a response curve because it's been compared to K712 Pro on Minidisk's (Lachlan's) video review and I hate the K712 sound so much. It's not that terrible, but sounded dull with hardly any mids definition.

I've been looking around to see if it's similar with the K712, but the response look different, and now puzzled why two were pointed out together. The R70X looks kinds mids centric with upper-mids emphasis and treble roll-off.

Anybody have opinions that has heard the K712? What's perplexing is that Minidisk stating K712 is better refined, that's casuing somewhat of a disinterest because I don't find K712 all that refined.

Where can I find the more accurate measurements?



I posted these two due to the result having consistancies

Weird, you must have watched a different video cause Lachlan says he likes both K712 and R70x because they are different. But then I think it's odd you're already negative on R70x because you don't like K712 because Lachlan likes K712. His favorite headphones were also the MA900 which by reputation were a warm sounding headphone. But he's more into portable IEM than headphones last I checked.

Also you are complaining about reference headphones being too dull for you. Yeah no f'ing crap, these are supposed to be reference headphones.

Also no idea why some folks are so obsessed with graphs. I don't hear graphs, but that's just me, guess my eyeballs aren't that good. I'm listening to Doom Eternal and thinking, damn love the mids with the K712, guess my ears didn't get the message from the graphs.

 

[SSandDigital]

https://www.neumann.com/homestudio/en/difference-between-home-stereo-speakers-and-studio-monitors

That's the entire point of reference monitors, hearing details, they aren't meant to be lively, in fact the opposite. If you want lively mids then keep looking. There isn't any reason to aspire to using reference monitors to enjoy your music, find the sound you want. It just happens some of us like these headphones and monitors. I would love a pair of Neumann 6" monitor for my desktop setup someday.

Both K712 and R70x were designed and marketed for mixing and mastering, not pleasure listening. That ought to give you a hint.

FYI for whatever reason, HD650 and HD600 are touted as reference blah blah, but reality is they were meant for audiophools, not for professionals. It wasn't until they got that rep are they now marketed for that. True story, when HD650 were first released they were marketed for laid back, easy listening home use, not as reference studio monitors. At the time the HD650/HD600 were released there were few open back headphones for that purpose which is why the HD650/HD600 got the following it does today. That's my theory anyway. They offered studios a different sound than what K701/DT880/DT990, not so much emphasis on the treble.

There are some weird as rumors that AT made the R70x to compete with HD6000 which is bogus considering they don't sound like HD600. So dunno why that even that started. It's like saying the K712 were made to compete with HD600 or DT1990 were designed to compete with HD600. HD600 were made for the "audiophiles" whereas the others were designed for studio.

 

[ADUHF]

R70x and HD600 comparison of raw responses measured from Innerfidelity

Thank you for posting the above R70x plots, SilverEars! I had forgotten that Tyll actually measured these...

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHR70x.pdf

After a bit more digging, I also found the article where he posted the above. AFAIK, he never did a full review of these.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelity-update-april-2016

I think you might possibly need a fairly powerful amp to get the most out of these sound-wise, due to their high impedance. Folks here can probably shed more light on that though than I can.

Also fwiw, the above plots are similar to what I remember seeing on the GoldenEars graphs, way back when.

 

[kman1211]

I've been looking all over for a response curve because it's been compared to K712 Pro on Minidisk's (Lachlan's) video review and I hate the K712 sound so much. It's not that terrible, but sounded dull with hardly any mids definition.

I've been looking around to see if it's similar with the K712, but the response look different, and now puzzled why two were pointed out together. The R70X looks kinds mids centric with upper-mids emphasis and treble roll-off.

Anybody have opinions that has heard the K712? What's perplexing is that Minidisk stating K712 is better refined, that's casuing somewhat of a disinterest because I don't find K712 all that refined.

Where can I find the more accurate measurements?



I posted these two due to the result having consistancies

The R70x and K712 are different, I found the K712 to have a more liquid sound but it's also tonally off in the upper mids and lower treble and has some transparency issues due to this, never seems like a truly clear window into the music like say the K612 can be, but the K612 has a bit of an etched upper midrange and treble that makes them excessively sharp and it doesn't ever go away with EQ or modding pointing at a fundamental problem somewhere, the K712 can be fixed at least, the K612 can't sadly. Both the R70x and K712 seem to have the trait where their dynamics are more laid back until you turn the volume up past a certain point and they start coming in though. I'm feeling a bit mixed about the R70x now, comfort has gotten worse for me and I wish they had better dynamics and clarity at the volumes I listen at. They helped in terms of the hard mids I get with the HD 600/650, but there still is some hardness to the mids. I guess what I really want is a Beyer with a FR more similar to the Senns as I find Beyers have some of the least hard sounding midrange to my ears and some of the best clarity in the mids and don't sound tonally off like in the mids like the AKGs. May just tinker a bit with pads and possibly mods on the T1 or Amiron Home to achieve the tuning I want.

 

[SilverEars]

The R70x and K712 are different, I found the K712 to have a more liquid sound but it's also tonally off in the upper mids and lower treble and has some transparency issues due to this, never seems like a truly clear window into the music like say the K612 can be, but the K612 has a bit of an etched upper midrange and treble that makes them excessively sharp and it doesn't ever go away with EQ or modding pointing at a fundamental problem somewhere. Both seem to have the trait where their dynamics are more laid back until you turn the volume up past a certain point and they start coming in though. I'm feeling a bit mixed about the R70x now, comfort has gotten worse for me and I wish they had better dynamics and clarity at the volumes I listen at. They helped in terms of the hard mids I get with the HD 600/650, but there still is some hardness to the mids. I guess what I really want is a Beyer with a FR more similar to the Senns as I find Beyers have some of the least hard sounding midrange to my ears and some of the best clarity in the mids and don't sound tonally off like in the mids like the AKGs. May just tinker a bit with pads and possibly mods on the T1 or Amiron Home to achieve the tuning I want.

You have the same impression of K712 as me. It's not transparent, and certainly nowhere near transparent as the HD600. That's not my definition of 'reference' sound. To me HD600 has a much more reference like sound than K712 due to it's much stronger revealability. The part I hated about K712 not bringing out what is in the recordings, and being boring dull with the large cups not providing much bass.

So when Lachlan states K712 has more detailed mids, and generally more detailed than the R70X, it had me scratching my head. Because if that truely is the case, I've lost my interest in the R70X. However, the measurements seems to make a different point.

 

[kman1211]

You have the same impression of K712 as me. It's not transparent, and certainly nowhere near transparent as the HD600. That's not my definition of 'reference' sound. To me HD600 has a much more reference like sound than K712 due to it's much stronger revealability. The part I hated about K712 not bringing out what is in the recordings, and being boring dull with the large cups not providing much bass.

Yeah that's sadly the problem with the K712, honestly it's driver is very capable but colored upper mids ruin it, it can be fixed but it takes effort. But I have heard what they are capable of. The R70x doesn't really have those problems, but comfort is hit or miss for people and it needs to be amped right and currently I don't have the right system for it, but will try to try it on some gear a friend has sometime.

 

[SilverEars]

Yeah that's sadly the problem with the K712, honestly it's driver is very capable but colored upper mids ruin it, it can be fixed but it takes effort. But I have heard what they are capable of. The R70x doesn't really have those problems, but comfort is hit or miss for people and it needs to be amped right and currently I don't have the right system for it, but will try to try it on some gear a friend has sometime.

I've tried various amps, including portable, and I couldn't get to sound revealing. It's probably one of the most unrevealing headphone I've heard. That is a big disappointment in my books. I value transparency highly. I mean we are suppose to be expecting 'high fidelity.'

 

[kman1211]

I've tried various amps, including portable, and I couldn't get to sound revealing. It's probably one of the most unrevealing headphone I've heard. That is a big disappointment in my books. I value transparency highly.

The one I heard fixed was modded and it was the only time I heard them actually sound great. That's the problem I had with them too. I also value transparency and clarity highly. I can handle some FR response deviations such as a somewhat v-shaped or n-shaped tuning but if it feels like their is a hash or tonal offness to the sound that is distraction I can't handle it as it hurts the deep clear unhindered listening into the music and not worry about problems with the headphone. Honestly a headphone doesn't really sound truly clear to me with long-term listening unless it's transparent.