Audio Technica ATH- ES 10 Impressions Thread
Jun 9, 2013 at 7:00 AM Post #497 of 1,113
Quote:
And how about sonic/sound differences between the ATH-ESW11 and ATH-ES10(with esw11 pads).
 
Thanks.

 
Thats a difficult one, because switching pads takes so long. In near future, I could give you a better impression. It is now a must for me to buy these extra ESW pads.
 
However, in that certain Mingus song there 3 different saxophones. Alto, tenor and baritone. The bass is covered by Cahrles himself. Drums, trombone and piano. When you listen to that song, you will notice that this song is dominated by the saxophones and the hi-hat, also the trombone(s?). Also constantly Charlies bass. To my ears presentation of the bass, trombone and baritone saxophone is better to my ears. I kind of like it. The area of the alto and tenor sax, and that is when you switch to the ESW11 pads on the ES10, here the ES10 sounds better to my ears. The highs are different between the ESW11LTD and ES10, no matter what pads used. Also I cannot decide between the highs of the ESW11 and ES10. The ES10 highs a little brighter and fresher, never too bright, to my ears perfect. On the other hand the ESW11 highs sound fresh, yet a little more relaxed.
 
Well, it is kind of difficult to pinpoint, because of switching. Also would not like to put too much stress on the pads...
 
I did the listening with the Sony-D350 CDP :)
 
Jun 9, 2013 at 11:09 AM Post #498 of 1,113
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I would definitely agree to that.
 
 
I would not say that there is a noticable change in treble.
 
What I could distinguish is a little more "refinement".  That "refinement", I cannot define it exactly. I compared with the jazz song from Charles - Mingus Moanin'. In that song there are different sax styles/artists. All I know is that I liked the sax more with the ESW11 pads. When I switched back to stock pads on the ES10, initially I was not sure about the difference. Usually I hate the ES10 pads, because I have to fiddle around for a few minutes and that is where I found the difference. It is like a_recording said. Those few mm more space between the driver and the ear make the difference. The sax sounds better.
 
  1. the ES10 look more fine with leather pads (the stock look cheap)
  2. they feel better
  3. no fiddeling around, (at least on my small ears) they fit
 

 
 
 

 
 
If you look exactly, you can see that the cloth that separates the driver from the ear is different.
 

 

 
 
Furthermore if you want to discuss differences between the driver of the ES10 and the ESW11 here you have some photos:
 
ESW11LTD driver:

 
 
 
ES10 driver:

 
 
The difference I see here => the ESW11LTD is darker around the center area
 
=> the white felt-like material that covers the venting openings looks thicker on the ESW11LTD. It also could be that on the ES10 they used more glue and so they soaked the felt with it.
 
 

 
Thanks for those awesome pics! It didn't actually occur to me that the fabric on the earpad is a little different, though that would certainly make a bit of a difference in sound.
 
I really think that if you have the ES10 pads, there is no reason not to get the ESW11 pads. It doesn't make them sound a great deal different, the differences are arguably better, and it's just a lot, lot more comfortable.
 
The only thing I get nervous about is if the ESW11 pads themselves are a limited part...
 
Jun 9, 2013 at 11:16 AM Post #499 of 1,113
Quote:
 
Thanks for those awesome pics! It didn't actually occur to me that the fabric on the earpad is a little different, though that would certainly make a bit of a difference in sound.
 
I really think that if you have the ES10 pads, there is no reason not to get the ESW11 pads. It doesn't make them sound a great deal different, the differences are arguably better, and it's just a lot, lot more comfortable.
 
The only thing I get nervous about is if the ESW11 pads themselves are a limited part...

 
Yeah the comfort. It is like day and night.
 
Hmm, would worry too much about limited earpads. There are always fake ones, that one can buy. Also the ESW10JPN pads are still around. Sooo, nothing to worry about.
 
I am still waiting for a payment from old things I sold... when my paypal account is full again, I will buy some pads.
 
Jun 9, 2013 at 11:26 AM Post #501 of 1,113
Quote:
I bought some ATH-ESW11 pads today in preparation for a pair of second hand ATH-ES10 or back ups for ATH-ESW11, which ever one I end up with.
smily_headphones1.gif

 
Where did you buy your pads?
 
Jun 9, 2013 at 4:29 PM Post #503 of 1,113
When the esw11 were first announced i jumped on here and posted to change the uncomfortable es10 pads but i still haven't for two reasons.  I could only find them on ebay, which i don't trust normally, and the difficulty of replacing them.  
 
Where to buy that is trustworthy?  How was changing them?  As soon as i can find them and think i can change them, i will.  Absolutely hate the es10 pads.
 
Edit-Bought on ebay.  I am so frustrated with the comfort.  Hope i can get them on.
confused_face_2.gif

 
Jun 9, 2013 at 5:23 PM Post #504 of 1,113
When the esw11 were first announced i jumped on here and posted to change the uncomfortable es10 pads but i still haven't for two reasons.  I could only find them on ebay, which i don't trust normally, and the difficulty of replacing them.  

Where to buy that is trustworthy?  How was changing them?  As soon as i can find them and think i can change them, i will.  Absolutely hate the es10 pads.

Edit-Bought on ebay.  I am so frustrated with the comfort.  Hope i can get them on.:confused_face_2:


Do not worry, they are easily replacable. It is more or less like putting on bycicle tires. :)
 
Jun 10, 2013 at 8:42 AM Post #505 of 1,113
Welp, I uploaded my ES10 review video :)
 
Eventually once I get the ES88 video up I will have a written comparison between the two.
 

 
Jun 10, 2013 at 11:14 PM Post #507 of 1,113
Nice review.
 
But I still don't "see" how you can claim that the ES10 is V-shaped. Frequency response graph and my personal listening reveals a midrange hump that's on par with whatever level treble and bass are at, so in fact, it's quite an even sound:
 
 

 
That definitely doesn't look V-shaped.
 
Jun 10, 2013 at 11:54 PM Post #508 of 1,113
Quote:
Nice review.
 
But I still don't "see" how you can claim that the ES10 is V-shaped. Frequency response graph and my personal listening reveals a midrange hump that's on par with whatever level treble and bass are at, so in fact, it's quite an even sound:
 
 

 
That definitely doesn't look V-shaped.

 
I claim the ES10 is V-shaped because between the rich mid-bass hump and the shimmery treble spike there is something scooped out in the lower treble. It gives everything a distinctly hollow tone. It is different from most of the other high end AT cans in the way it treats the treble. 
 
I trust in graphs and I refer to them often, but I am not sure how much I can trust the graphs from head doctor since I don't know anything about the simulator head and the graphs seem oddly smoothed. We don't know if they take multiple positions or averages like Tyll does.
 
For reference this is how they measured the LCD-2:
 

 
vs. Tyll's graph:
 

 
 
Not only is the scale completely different, the actual measured treble region seems completely different. The Headdoctor graph would have you believe the LCD-2 sounds almost ruler flat when most people agree that the LCD-2 sounds dark and rolled off (myself included). 
 
The ES10 headdoctor graph looks like a roller coaster compared to the LCD-2 graph, with all kinds of dips and troughs in the sound. The scale on the Headdoctor graph compresses 6 decibels into one grid line marking, when differences of 3db are very clearly audible. (Consider the EX1000 vs the 7550). 
 
It's clear on the ES10 graph alone that there are some interesting things going on with the ES10's sound, and I would not consider them close to neutral. If it's not V-shaped it certainly isn't -- shaped. No one considers any top tier AT can neutral, they like to add all kinds of spices. Thats why I love them!
 
The two most prominent aspect of the ES10's sound is the thumpy bass and the treble shimmer. I'd consider that to be a V, though we might have different definitions of what a V-shape is. A lot of people consider Beyerdynamics and the Denon DX000 series to be V-shaped but they don't look that way on graphs either.
 
Jun 11, 2013 at 1:10 PM Post #510 of 1,113
Quote:
 
I claim the ES10 is V-shaped because between the rich mid-bass hump and the shimmery treble spike there is something scooped out in the lower treble. It gives everything a distinctly hollow tone. It is different from most of the other high end AT cans in the way it treats the treble. 
 
I trust in graphs and I refer to them often, but I am not sure how much I can trust the graphs from head doctor since I don't know anything about the simulator head and the graphs seem oddly smoothed. We don't know if they take multiple positions or averages like Tyll does.
 
For reference this is how they measured the LCD-2:
 

 
vs. Tyll's graph:
 

 
 
Not only is the scale completely different, the actual measured treble region seems completely different. The Headdoctor graph would have you believe the LCD-2 sounds almost ruler flat when most people agree that the LCD-2 sounds dark and rolled off (myself included). 
 
The ES10 headdoctor graph looks like a roller coaster compared to the LCD-2 graph, with all kinds of dips and troughs in the sound. The scale on the Headdoctor graph compresses 6 decibels into one grid line marking, when differences of 3db are very clearly audible. (Consider the EX1000 vs the 7550). 
 
It's clear on the ES10 graph alone that there are some interesting things going on with the ES10's sound, and I would not consider them close to neutral. If it's not V-shaped it certainly isn't -- shaped. No one considers any top tier AT can neutral, they like to add all kinds of spices. Thats why I love them!
 
The two most prominent aspect of the ES10's sound is the thumpy bass and the treble shimmer. I'd consider that to be a V, though we might have different definitions of what a V-shape is. A lot of people consider Beyerdynamics and the Denon DX000 series to be V-shaped but they don't look that way on graphs either.

 
If you normalize Doctor Head's graph of the LCD-2 to Tyll's graph and then do the same to the ES10, it still turns out that the ES10 has a lot more midrange than anything else. And by midrange, I mean the region between 500Hz and 5KHz.
 
Easy way to check: play something with vocals on, and with some bass and treble, and see if bass and treble are still dominating the range. I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised. The Beyer and Denon headphones are V-shaped because their vocals (midrange between 500Hz and 5KHz) are obviously less loud compared to bass and treble. Look up their graphs and you'll see that as well.
 

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