[chadbang]

Oh well. live and learn.

I sold my Proac Tablette 2000 speakers because I like my Spica's better (the old Proacs were just sounding too "boxy" after seven months) and used the cash to pick up an Audio Research LS3 preamp.

Well, sad to say it's a system failure. It gives me improved bass over my HK Citation 21 preamp and does eliminate a touch of "chestiness" on vocals, but overall the preamp seems on the bright side of neutral.

Yes, there is an overall sense of improved openess in my system, but at the expense of more treble and, arruuughh, sibilance! I hate sibilance, it tears my ears up.

So, that's a $700 bad judgement call.
I don't even think the dealer has anything in his shop worth trading for, either.

I'm miserable.

 

[sacd lover]

Before you give up, try these simple changes. One, turn the spicas straight with no toe in. Two, experiment with the height of the spicas, you may be sitting to high or low. Three, move them a little closer to the wall, more bass reinforcement may balance out the brightness to some degree.

The audio research is a good preamp, but their signature is as you descibe, they have a whiteish coloration in the upper mids that gives them a slightly bright sound; I couldnt get past this with an audio research ls7 I auditioned. The HK may have covered up this flaw in the speakers too. I remember the tc-50s as a little peaky and their lack of bass makes them sound a little lacking in body.

I would also suggest some warmer cables but that means more money. You are probably wise to sell the preamp if you truely dont like it, instead of throwing more money towards fixing the problem. I feel for your dilema, there is nothing that bothers me more than sibilance.

 

[joelk]

Absolutely not the case with the SP6 or SP8 series! They're wonderfully warm and musical.

 

[chadbang]

Thanks, SACD. Will give all your suggestions a try.

I'll give the amp a week and then decide on its fate.

 

[chadbang]

I thought about the SP8. But I had heard the the LS3 was just as warm as their tube amps (and even more tube-like than their hybrid amps). SACD Lover maybe right, the treble on the TC-50 is very good, but perhaps the LS3 is playing to their weaknesses. I bet the damn Proacs (that I sold to buy the LS3) might have been a better match for the LS3. Talk about irony.

Why must things always go the hard way?

 

[BoyElroy]

Hi Chadbang,

What amp are you using to drive the Spicas? The Proacs are a much easier load to drive than the Spicas so that may be part of the problem.

 

[pigmode]

Most people that have tried but moved on from AR tubed equipment characterize it as bright to analytical. I assumed that was what you wanted.

 

[chadbang]

Boyelroy: I'm using a humble little Adcom GFA 535 amp (60 watts) which I really love. No problem driving the Spicas (and I listen at a low level.)

Pig Mode: No. I was actually hoping to smooth out the Spica's a bit! Maybe add a touch more bass. I had no idea about Audio Research's overall sound. I would have thought tube equated with a gentler presentation. With the Spicas, that "analytical" quality is way too much of a good thing, unfortunately. Thank god I still have my old Citation preamp.

But, like I said, I'll give the LS3 another week to see if it grows on me. I do like the weight of the bass it gives but, surprisingly, I don't really notice much improvement in dyamics which many people seem to enjoy about the preamp. If I could only tame the treble just a tad, I might grow attached to the LS3. (Inexpensive cable rec, anyone?) Anyway, a disappointment.

 

[BoyElroy]

Maybe I'm a little soft in the head, but having used the Spicas with an AR VT50 /LS3BR for a year or so, my thoughts were that there was something missing off the top end!

I've used the LS3BR with about three different amps and while I'd say that it lacked oomph in the bass and ultimate resolution (at least compared to my BB Gilmore) it had a warm, pleasant midrange and softish highs. The LS3BR kept this warmish characteristic when paired with the AR VT50, the McCormack DNA1 Dlxe and the B&K ST202.

So, the situation is puzzling to me because you've got a loudspeaker with rolled off highs paired with a pretty warm preamp resulting in an overly 'hot' high end. There is probably nothing wrong with your setup at all and it could be that your ears are just different from mine, but on the off chance that there could be something wrong or mismatched, do you think you could swap in a different amp for the Adcom just for comparison?

Also, like SACD says, reducing "toe-in" will definitely reduce the treble energy. I used my Spicas with about 15-20 degrees of toe-in with fairly good results.

Finally, I would highly suggest that you get a copy of Stereophiles Test CD vol. 2 and check out your system's phase, and freq. response to figure out what exactly is going on, if anything.

 

[smokey]

Before you give up, you might want to give these guys a call,

http://www.greatnorthernsound.com/home.htm

If I understand they do modifications to the LS-3, that might make it into what you're looking for. I do not have any personal experience with their work, but have read some fairly favorable comments on AA.

Good Luck

 

[drewski]

Chadbang-

I know this is somewhat of a long shot, but check to be sure that one of your tweeters on your Spicas isn't damaged. I know you're probably thinking that I'm an idiot for even suggesting this, but the Audax tweeter that the Spicas use image so well, that sometimes it's not really apparent that one tweeter is having problems. Test by listening to one channel at a time. I have a pair of Merlin's that use the same tweeter (but the 8ohm one vs. the 4 ohm one found in the Spicas). I blew out the tweeter once and it really didn't sound like the tweeter was blown. I only mention this because I remember you having placement questions in another post- these speakers should have imaged fairly well no matter how you place them, but would have needed minor adjustments to set to your personal preferences.

 

[sacd lover]

Chad, the 535 is a brightish amp, especially in the upper mids. The more revealing nature of the AR is probably letting it come through completely. The brighter nature of the ls3 is small compared to the amps signature. My friend had on of these, and later a big GFA-555, and they both had that trait. I should have asked what amp you had. You need a darker pre with the 535; and thats probably what you have in the Hk.

 

[sacd lover]

While were at it, what speaker cables and interconnects do you use. If you are using zip cord for speaker cable, the 535 will be harder sounding yet. If your interconnects arent very good they will contribute to brightness as well. This is the problem with dropping a revealing high quality component into a system. They let you hear exactly how everything else really sounds. Please dont take this as a criticism; I learned this the hard way too. Balance is the key to good sound.

The spicas are actually a little rolled off in the highs like boy elroy said. They did this to balance the rolled off bottom end; I read this in an article by their designer, John Bau. The spicas upper mids are slightly elevated and this is what gives the wonderful imaging. But when you get the 535 combined with bright cables ?, and the ls3, its just to much for your taste.

 

[drewski]

Quote:

Originally posted by sacd lover Chad, the 535 is a brightish amp, especially in the upper mids. The more revealing nature of the AR is probably letting it come through completely. The brighter nature of the ls3 is small compared to the amps signature. My friend had on of these, and later a big GFA-555, and they both had that trait. I should have asked what amp you had. You need a darker pre with the 535; and thats probably what you have in the Hk.

Earl (SACD Lover) just jarred my rapidly deteriorating memory... I had a 535 way back in the days- a nice amp for the money, but I agree with Earl that it did tend to be on the bright side (and hopefully you were lucky enough not to listen with some of those 1st generation CD players!). I never tried that amp with tubes, but my guess is that a decent tubed preamp would round out the sound nicely. I think I used a NAD 3020 for a preamp back then, and then a Superphon preamp eventually.

Also, that amp only accepted bare wire or pins- What speaker cables are you using and are you using bare wire connecting to the amp?

 

[joelk]

Hmm. I never thought about the power amp.

I wonder if you could borrow a Dynaco stereo 70, or another lower power tube amp?