Audio Quality - FM, MP3, CD etc.
Aug 18, 2003 at 12:11 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 22

ssillcollector

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I'm sure audio quality is largely dependent on bandwidth. Obviously, I'm not trying to compare AM vs. FM. Of the equipments you have, which sounds good (everything being equal; especially the headphone)? Mine is FM. I can't stand MP3 sounds for its lack of high-frequency response. CD is okay but it is too "digital".
 
Aug 18, 2003 at 12:16 AM Post #2 of 22
Aug 18, 2003 at 1:24 AM Post #4 of 22
Quote:

CD>MP3>MD>FM


Not unless you have a GOOD MD recorder (portable or deck) and record in SP mode. Then it's....


CD>MD>MP3>FM
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Aug 18, 2003 at 1:50 AM Post #5 of 22
Ahhh those MD fans always bringing in the hardware. I'm sure those $2500 Nakamichi CR-7E's made cassettes soar.
tongue.gif


Under the right equipment I say: FM>MD>MP3>CD>Live

I agree hardware does play a big part is this.
 
Aug 18, 2003 at 1:56 AM Post #6 of 22
Quote:

Originally posted by williamgoody
Not unless you have a GOOD MD recorder (portable or deck) and record in SP mode. Then it's....


CD>MD>MP3>FM
very_evil_smiley.gif


Actually, you don't even need a "high end" MD recorder. Most any decent MD recorder in SP will sound better than most, if not all, MP3s.
 
Aug 18, 2003 at 11:02 AM Post #7 of 22
Yes, the newest ATRAC versions make MiniDisc sound soooo sweet. I can't understand how anyone can say mp3's sound better than MD's unless they do have high bitrate downloads. And, the newest PCDP's sound grossly inferior to any new (or older) MD unit. Guess you know how I voted.
biggrin.gif
 
Aug 18, 2003 at 11:27 AM Post #9 of 22
Quote:

Originally posted by blessingx
Ahhh those MD fans always bringing in the hardware. I'm sure those $2500 Nakamichi CR-7E's made cassettes soar.
tongue.gif


Under the right equipment I say: FM>MD>MP3>CD>Live

I agree hardware does play a big part is this.



I had this converstaion again with someone over the weekend as I did with Joelongwood earlier this year. I'm convinced that If the MD format was rolled out before the CD format, it would be the premier format of the day, as far as the "mainstream".

IMO people really got into CD's because of the convenience factor (no rewinding, etc). MD's give you this plus the ability to record, as I believe it was developed as a replacement to the cassette.
And it's smaller.

I'm not trying to put down CD's or the other formats, but I really believe this.
 
Aug 18, 2003 at 11:48 AM Post #10 of 22
Another big plus for MiniDisc is its durability.

When the MD format was first unveiled, many thought it was a replacement for the CD but Sony's intention was that it was to supplant the aging audio cassette platform. I think a lot of people got confused over that issue, and it took a good ten years for MiniDisc to take hold.

From a practical standpoint, I find that MiniDisc actually sounds better than due to the encoding process of ATRAC, giving my SP recordings something special. Yes, it's a lossy format but unless you're using a high-end system and equal-quality headphones/speakers, the little MiniDisc performs amazingly well.

Too bad MD did not precede the Compact Disc, as you mention.
 
Aug 18, 2003 at 1:33 PM Post #11 of 22
What's MP3? What bitrate, what encoder do you use to compare it? And what playback device do you use for the four different formats to compare them to eachother? There are so many variables here, it's impossible to find a valuable result, except for one: CD is in fact the most accurate format, since uncompressed PCM is the starting basis also for all other mediums, including FM for the most part of its broadcasted music titles. So all other formats are lossy, objectively worse than the original format.

This doesn't exclude that you may like FM, e.g., better - through your individual device. Maybe it has the right euphonic colorations to compensate for the flaws of the cheap DAC or output stage. FM transmission carries a high degree of distortion with it which not only is perceived as such but also can mask some digital flavour of the original.

As to MP3 and MiniDisc: I have found my first MD player (Sony MZ-R30) to be sonically superior to my D-99 Discman. Does that mean MD is superior to CD? Of course not! There are several years of technical progress between the two. But it shows how good MD can sound. Why did I switch to MP3? I bought an Archos Studio 20 jukebox with a 20 GB HD, so I have the best of my CD collection at hand wherever I am. And I liked the sound of well encoded high-bitrate MP3 even better than MDs. Of course with a different player, so no absolute rating of the formats.

I can't compare a CD to the corresponding MD recording. And I have no ATRAC encoder/player on my computer. But I can compare MP3 files to the original Wave files. And with EAC/LAME as well as my not too young ears I barely can distinguish 256-kbps MP3 from the original, maybe with certain very critical recordings; and I definitely can't in the case of 320 kbps. This even through my Bel Canto DAC2 connected to the SPDIF out. So I clearly have to dispute that MD sounds «better» than MP3. AFAIK the normal ATRAC is around 256 kbps, right?

Quote:

Originally posted by ßillcollector
I can't stand MP3 sounds for its lack of high-frequency response.


With the right encoder (e.g. LAME) there's no low-pass filter and no HF roll-off - at least from the encoding process. The decoder is another possible source of the treble roll-off you perceive.


BTW (cited from another thread):

The German stereoplay magazine has compared six lossy compression systems:

AAC / Atrac 3plus / MP3 FhG / MP3 Lame / Ogg Vorbis / WMA

They have tested two variable bitrates: around 64 kbps and around 230 kbps. 64 kbps doesn't look like a good choice, since it's barely useable for serious listeners, as the tests have shown. After all it demonstrates the tendencies:

AAC and WMA were the best encoders with the low bitrate, followed by Atrac 3plus and Ogg Vorbis. Both MP3 encoders were bad here.

With the higher bitrate, Lame and Ogg Vorbis are in front; Lame with «extreme» setting is said to be closest to the original sound. AAC, MP3 FhG and WMA share the third place, whereas Atrac 3plus is worst by a fair margin.

Personally I haven't tried other compressors than MP3 so far, but I'm very satisfied with EAC/(Razor)Lame (exclusively with high bitrates) and don't expect any new codecs to sound clearly better with high-quality settings.

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Aug 18, 2003 at 4:00 PM Post #12 of 22
the classical fm station in our area uses volume compression virtually eliminating dynamic range between loud and soft. This is ok for rock music or listening in the car but for classical it sucks.

do any fm stations in your area use vol c.?
 
Aug 18, 2003 at 5:07 PM Post #13 of 22
Just say "NO" to:

1) Volumax/Optimod:

Life sucking atrocity. I've heard FM without it and it sounds glorious. What a shame the need for ratings and volume perception has ruined (for the most part) the audio qualities of the fine FM format.

2) 64K encoding:

XM, while a great service, uses 64k AAC+ compression and it sounds *TERRIBLE* with headphones (in my opinion). Speakers and environment can mask the flaws, sort of. What does comes out from AAC+ is radically changed from the original recording. Vocals really suffer. Phase-y, distorted, metallic sounding, ugh. XM would do much better to eliminate some of the channel choices so the bitrate/quality can be increased.

Paul
 
Aug 19, 2003 at 12:14 AM Post #15 of 22
D-EJ915...

...according to stereoplay, Atrac 3plus' highest bitrate is 192 kbps. They didn't mention it to be the normal MiniDisc format though, which AFAIK is somewhere around 256 kbps. I don't know how the corresponding Atrac version is called.

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