[DecentLevi]

Does someone know about which aspects are generally seen to improve with burn-in of their R2R DAC's? Thanks

 

[aumont00]

With mine, at the beginning the highs were recessed and so it was less detailed and focused. Sorry I cant tell you more because I was burning in two devices at the same time so its hard for me to tell exactly what comes from the dac vs the amp. You can expect the sound to be more detailed and focused after the burn in process.
I had a schiit gumby for few months to compare, the gumby was more detailed, but after adding the ddc gustard u16 as well as an external clock, the r28 is closer to the gumby. I dont have the gumby anymore, it was too much tipped up on the highs, too brigth for me.

 

[aumont00]

Also I forgot to mention, as you may know, the gumby was a more expensive gear, so it was to be expected that it performs better. It probably compare well to an audio gd r8, with a different flavor.
I also tried the modi 3 delta sigma, was not impressed. The sound was clean, but it didnt sound like music, it sounded like a machine trying to create music, some people would say « artificial ».

 

[DecentLevi]

OK folks here are my final impressions of the Audio-GD R-1 DAC - which I no longer own. (the same DAC in the R-28).

Right out of the box with 100 hrs. burn-in from China, the sound seemed a bit off kilter perhaps in the timbre and detail. After 1 hour I got a little sonic improvement... perhaps... and this was the best it ever got. My personal opinion is this product is a flop, a complete dud. As mentioned I took due care to follow the recommended steps of using a good HDMI cable, and it was via a very good series of 3 USB components / reclocker / decrapifiers (also tried without and with every possible combination of 1 or 2). As well I diligently chose the best filter and OS mode at 8x OS, in addition I went for the top spec "full clocks upgrade" version with also the latest firmware installed. My upstream gear consisted of Feliks Audio Euforia tube amp with custom tube compliment which yields a very organic, well textured, detailed sound with resolution aplomb; headphones were HD-600 with upgraded silver cable as well as HD-650 with upgraded copper cable; I also tested via my Stax Lambda L700 electrostat headphones with Stax SRM-1 MK2 energizer.

I spent a solid 18 days of burning this sucker in with music playing in a loop of various genres, almost 24 hours / day with the occasional 1 hour break. I even left it off once overnight to see if a good resting period would turn things around. Almost every day I would do a direct A/B comparison to my entry-level Modi 2 Multibit (R2R) DAC and the Modi would consistently beat the R-1 like clockwork. Every comparison on every test track and every element of the sound reproduction would give a huge nod in favor of the Modi Multibit without waiver.

What was lacking, vs. the entry-level Modi 2 Multibit?
- soundstage. Sounds congested and relatively flat
- instrument separation. Huge loss here, with many elements of the mix smearing together in one blob, vs. well defined layers in a coherent manner
- detail. A fair amount of fine detail that I heard with the former was simply not present, not at all, period.
- transient response. Not bad but drums didn't impress me as much
- bass definition and sense of rhythm. While it doesn't fail here, it just wasn't nearly as well defined or cohesive as the former DAC
- tonality. this aspect seemed equal

Overall it's actually not a bad sounding DAC and can be pleasing in fact - until you do some direct A/B comparisons with other gear. Whether it's a higher or lower-tier DAC, you should be able to hear a difference. And in my case it was a much lower-tier DAC costing nearly just 1/4th the price and somewhere around 1/30th the size, yet blowing it out of the water on every single aspect.

This is an approximate comparison in size between the two units; the R-1 being my actual photo and using a stock photo of the Modi not having photographed them both together

I did the almost daily comparisons using lossless copies of well mastered songs of multiple genres which I'm deeply familiar with allowing me to compare subtle details in texture, transient response, detail and soundstage of specific sections of specific songs. Finally at day 18 of burn-in with around 550 hours (including factory burn-in) I turned in my hat. Burn-in can improve audio gear a certain amount, usually a modest change if any but the chances of this unit morphing into a unicorn at this point were nil. So off it went to the used marketplace, to fund another DAC. I am leaning towards the Qutest DAC which comes from renowned Chord Electronics and since I no longer have the R-1, any comparisons will be unscientific and indirect, although I can still compare the incoming DAC to my Modi Multibit as a baseline for reference.

Indeed this was a non-standard comparison and even unfair to put a $250 transportable sized DAC up against an $890 desktop sized one, but that's what I happened to have to work with. And against my expectations, the former won resolutely and without fail in every aspect. Moreover I am in no way heralding the Modi 2 Multibit DAC as the best out there. It was just the DAC I was trying to beat, and have heard many of the top DACs at the dozen meets I've been to. Another member who is extremely reputable in the hobby had previously mentioned that the DAC in the R28 is an absolute horror-show, an awful piece that measures behind the original Modi 1 Multibit. And this is no ordinary hobbyist, but somebody who co-founded a competing forum, has a good following and has reviewed dozens of DACs and owns a Chord DAVE, RME ADI-2 DAC and turntables costing thousands. I wanted to say he was wrong, but finally I concede to his wisdom. They may say the Audio-GD products are not for everybody, but I think it has more to do with critical listening ability and how resolving your upstream gear is. If one has a good chain and knows what to listen for, the performance or lack there-of with this DAC should easy to discern.

As always, YMMV and certainly even this is not black & white, as some people may prefer this sound. One thing for sure though I would not label this as an endgame product, or even close to the Yggy.

 

[jimmychan]

Sorry to hear that, R1 is the low end product of Audio-gd.

 

[PopZeus]

Disagree somewhat about the R-1. I have the predecessor so assuming it didn't take a big step backward between iterations, take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I used to own the Modi Multibit and when I got the Focal Elex, it prompted me to upgrade my whole upstream rig. I much preferred the sound of my rig with the A-gd DAC over the Mimby, and that is a VERY revealing headphone. The Mimby and Elex combo was too dynamic, too extended in the highs and lows to sound natural or enjoyable for longer than a few minutes. With the R2R-1, the sound was natural, smooth, and still incredibly detailed. I prefer the stage and separation of the R2R-1 to the Modi Multibit.

So while I can see where you're coming from, I think the issue is more about pairing and taste? The Airst RDAC is a closer comparison to the Mimby and even then there are differences that feel more subjective than objective.

 

[DecentLevi]

It does sound like you have at least fairly resolving upstream gear so should be able to allow for a decent comparison between your DACs - even that your R-1 must sound pretty stellar. For some reason or another, my unit didn't sound so spectacular. Maybe the newer version wasn't as good or there was unit-to-unit variation. Taste and pairing isn't a major factor, being that my multiple comparisons with highly resolving equipment showed shortcomings on many aspects of the R-1 DAC. If mine had been more technically proficient, it would have impressed me more. And as mentioned, burn-in was already at 500+ hours so it wouldn't exactly be likely to morph into a whole other league with more hours on it. I'm sure on the other hand Audio-GD does have better DACs, and as well as I like some of their SS amps as well. This DAC didn't do it for me though.

 

[aumont00]

From my personal experience, audio gd dacs are not really made for critical listening, but for pleasure and musicality. As I mentionned in this thread, my schiit gumby was more detailed and less bloomy than my audio gd r28, however the gumby was not a good match with my speakers, it gave a very fatiguing experience.
Everything is a question of matching gears and taste. Its unfortunate that you dont like your r1.

 

[sajunky]

@DecentLevi. You should perhaps speak to the people before selling the unit. I own a basic model R2R11 and I must say, it is very sensitive to ground loops. I purchased R2R11 from a forum member who had very good opinion about this particular DAC. See a feedback here: https://www.avforums.co.za/index.php?topic=72848.0

When I put it in my system, it had a very grainy sound. Problem didn't go away after few hours, but I found a cause. It required reversing 2-pin Euro plug of the laptop PSU. A sound has changed immediately and after few hours it did sound perfect. I do switch a DAC off during a night and now it needs only half an hour to warm up, so the internal calibration seems needs to be finished without any external disturbance. This calibration process was shown on the botchered Amir test of R2R11. The unit thas trigered a small spike distortion every 25 seconds, see on the review. Due to the external disturbance a DAC was repetively triggering internal calibration which was never completed successfuly.

I am pretty sure your unit wasn't a lemon. A-GD is doing extensive tests after 100 hours of burning and I didn't see any user complains regarding quality control.

There are many ways to test ground loops. You have mentioned using reclockers/decrapifiers, but your ground loop could come through any other input or output. I am very sorry for you, that you didn't manage to fix a problem.

A-GD products from the upper shelf have all galvanic protection as required for the audiophiles without a technical knowledge. These entry level R2R11 and middle level R1/R28 do not. We poor guys have to be clever, to survive.

 

[DecentLevi]

Well what I should have done is already last week's news. You can see on the most recent pages here I did ask for a lot of you guys input and tried everything you recommended at the time. In fact ground loop is not to blame here because it was connected to my top-tier power regenerator. The Furman IT Reference 15i Discrete Symmetrical AC Power Conditioner worth $2,600. You must be right I did not have a lemon because it did seem in pristine shape and flawless for what it's supposed to do, but in my opinion you the product itself is a lemon. To be fair it didn't sound bad at every iteration, as I mentioned it did sound fairly good on its own - up until I compared it to something that at least I perceived to sound superior. Even expectation bias was not to blame because I expected the R1 would sound better. And sometimes with the brightly mastered track on a bright electrostatic headphone system it did sound better in some regards, for more of a laid-back sound. But overall it's performance fell short of even my entry-level R2R DAC coming in at almost just a quarter of the price; its' lack of ability to present coherent images with instrument separation, large enough soundstage and transient response, to name a few. And I do know the hobby quite well having actually been active in some way or another since 2007 before joining and have tried numerous times the likes of Holo Audio Lv. 3, DAVE, Yggy 1 & 2, etc. And so at least I have the Mimby as future baseline of comparison when I get my next DAC.

 

[sajunky]

You can see on the most recent pages here I did ask for a lot of you guys input and tried everything you recommended at the time. In fact ground loop is not to blame here because it was connected to my top-tier power regenerator. The Furman IT Reference 15i Discrete Symmetrical AC Power Conditioner worth $2,600. You must be right I did not have a lemon because it did seem in pristine shape and flawless for what it's supposed to do, but in my opinion you the product itself is a lemon.

This is just generalisation, it cannot be accepted.

As for the power generator, it is good you have mentioned it, as it can be a cause. There is another guy who believes in a magic of power generators. He used such power generator with both TotalDAC and R2R11 measurement tests. When I asked a guy why it happens that there were strong traces of both 50Hz and 60Hz on the TotalDAC FFT, he had no answer on that. He blamed of course TotalDAC for ground loops, but he could blame only one 50Hz or 60Hz, not both. This is a truth. The other one was inherently a part of his measuring gear. You should start from a TotalDAC FFT graph, read discussion then jump to the R2R11 test, you will see the same pattern as on the TotalDAC.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...and-measurements-of-totaldac-d1-six-dac.8192/

 

[DecentLevi]

Noted but it would be interesting if cleaner power with lower noise / EMI / RFI would actually decrease performance on this DAC, while I have heard audible improvement with all other components. Anyway I have already sold the DAC last week and I'm moving on to something different.

 

[sajunky]

Noted but it would be interesting if cleaner power with lower noise / EMI / RFI would actually decrease performance on this DAC, while I have heard audible improvement with all other components. Anyway I have already sold the DAC last week and I'm moving on to something different.

Cleaner power gives secondary or even tertiary level of improvements, but introduced ground loop by such device can be devastating. If any problems you should disconnect such device to see whether it helped or not. This is my final point.

 

[DecentLevi]

A ground loop issue would be indicative in the form of a buzz or hum which was definitely not present on any of my other components including amps, transformer, reclockers, not to mention no sign of any present on my DAC. You could be looking for confirmation that your entry-level DAC must sound good. This is my final post on the topic too.

 

[sajunky]

A ground loop issue would be indicative indicative in the form of a buzz or hum which was definitely not present on any of my other components including amps, transformer, reclockers, not to mention no sign of any present on my DAC.

Not true. It was true many years ago and may happen today. If you have any single SMPS (switching mode power supply) in your system, ground loops extend above ultrasonic frequencies. In addition a large inductors in the power conditioner may affect negatively SMPS in your gear. A highly efficient SMPS with power factor correction (PFC) may even refuse to work. These are facts you must be aware of. If you didn't, just learn.