[Surlias]

Well so far all he's responded with is suggesting I cut the wire inside to disable the mute relay hardware permanently. He hasn't specifically said one way or the other about the availability of a new firmware update. However, I asked for an explanation as to why they used a "hardware mute design" rather than software, since the rest of their lineup apparently uses a software-based design, and he said that it was for cost reasons, the hardware solution being cheaper. It all has to do with enabling the DSD support, which I really don't care about. I followed up his last email asking if cutting the wire will disable DSD support. I'm guessing SACD etc playback could still be achieved via PCM if DSD support is disabled? Which is fine with me, because I don't really have many SACD recordings, but the mute thing is nonstop annoying.
 
Given his explanation of why a hardware design was used instead of software, I'm assuming that a firmware fix isn't even possible (hence the physical switch on the new model). I've asked him whether cutting the wire will void my warranty, now waiting to hear back.

 

[mandrake50]

 

I wonder how you know this? Have you listened to the combination, or are you just going by what AudioGD says about the differences?
I have a recent model NFB 11 ..if anything I have found it to be way on the mellow smooth side. I have thought it could well be too laid back to get the best out ofr the 560. I should have a HE 560 in hand in the next few days, I will take a listen when I do and let people know...
BTW, if the 15 is more laid back than my 11... it may sound like listening through a wool blanket...a wet one.

 

[wmedrz]

The HE560 is bright of natural. When I combine it with my NFB 11 the treble sound harsh. Using coax will help over USB/SPDIF. I found using DX90 as transport sounds surprisingly good with NFB 11. I recommend going balanced with HE560. It gives fullest amount of body compared with SE I have tried. 

 

[Surlias]

Has anyone tried the "cutting a wire" fix for the mute delay thing? Just wondering what to expect exactly, and if there were any undesirable results. This is the picture Kingwa provided:
 

 

[JustinZ]

Wow... I got my NFB-11 yesterday.... and theres a new version already?

 

[Surlias]

  Wow... I got my NFB-11 yesterday.... and theres a new version already?

 
I KNOW RIGHT

 

[Stillhart]

IMO, and I realize how much it's worth, these things get upgraded annually.  There's almost no difference between the different models.  I really wouldn't worry about it.  I bought an NFB-15.32 because it was the first one I found when I was looking for the NFB-15.  But there was already a newer version and one or two older versions as well.  I'd have taken any of them because the differences were so minimal.  
 
YMMV of course.

 

[JustinZ]

  IMO, and I realize how much it's worth, these things get upgraded annually.  There's almost no difference between the different models.  I really wouldn't worry about it.  I bought an NFB-15.32 because it was the first one I found when I was looking for the NFB-15.  But there was already a newer version and one or two older versions as well.  I'd have taken any of them because the differences were so minimal.  
 
YMMV of course.

Sure.. but mine is BRAND NEW  direct from them ....and they didnt say anything to me... and its already not worth what I paid... the least they could've done was told me to wait a week
Also, the new switch solves a real issue
 
 
I wonder if they're able to send a new back plate you can just mount the switch to

 

[SpirosG]

  Well so far all he's responded with is suggesting I cut the wire inside to disable the mute relay hardware permanently. He hasn't specifically said one way or the other about the availability of a new firmware update. However, I asked for an explanation as to why they used a "hardware mute design" rather than software, since the rest of their lineup apparently uses a software-based design, and he said that it was for cost reasons, the hardware solution being cheaper. It all has to do with enabling the DSD support, which I really don't care about. I followed up his last email asking if cutting the wire will disable DSD support. I'm guessing SACD etc playback could still be achieved via PCM if DSD support is disabled? Which is fine with me, because I don't really have many SACD recordings, but the mute thing is nonstop annoying.
 
Given his explanation of why a hardware design was used instead of software, I'm assuming that a firmware fix isn't even possible (hence the physical switch on the new model). I've asked him whether cutting the wire will void my warranty, now waiting to hear back.

I don't really get it .... if you don't care about 'native dsd playback', you just have to set foobar to convert  dsd to pcm on the fly (first,  you need to instal the relevant plug in from here : http://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/ ) ... you choose 'wasapi'' ot ''asio: via ks direct asio'' as foobar's output and you forget about native dsd .... then you 'll never have pops and clicks from the relay anymore ... at least, this is what happened with my nfb 11 (2014) ... I only have the annoying sounds when I try to play native dsd ... never while playing pcm ... I have installed the latest firmware and drivers (latest meaning that they are some months old right now, if i remember well they were out around August 2014 ...
 
All in all : You don't have to cut any wire if you don't care about dsd ... 

 

[chucky27]

Hello everyone,
New owner of NFB-11(2014) here. Does everyone experience following behavior? :
 
1) In Foobar (ASIO mode) there are relay clicks (not very loud) on play/pause and manual track switching (automatic track change - no clicks)
2) Relay clicks when I open any video file (though relay doesn't click on play/pause using DirectSound)
3) I still hear loud pop during PCM/DSD switch.
 
Do I understand correctly that after cutting those relay wires, all clicks will go away, but I may hear loud pop in native DSD mode (im OK with DSD->PCM conversion) ?
 
Thanks
 
P.S. Using Windows 8.1 x64, VIA USB 3.0 ports, no issues whatsoever with USB.

 

[SpirosG]

Welcome !
 
Try to read the last few pages and you 'll become wiser ...
 
There is not a ''consistent'' relay clicking behaviour ... as I explain in my previous post, personally I only have clicks /pops, etc. ONLY when playing native dsd  (the only way to hear native dsd is to intall in foobar the ASIO:foo_dsd_asio and then set it as foobar's output, further configuring that foo_dsd_asio will use 'via ks direct asio' as the asio driver) ... 
 
When I play pcm either with wasapi or 'via ks asio' I don't have any problems. 
 
If you cut the wires then you miss forever the chance to play native dsd ,,,
 
I'm sorry to mention that these Audio_GD guys should be present in this thread, trying to help people, instead of appearing in other threads just to promote sales ....

 

[chucky27]

thanks,
Guess there has been a h/w change in mute relay within NFB-11-2014 range (mine was manufactured in May) That may explain differences in click/pop experience. I've made my peace with quiet clicks, but those ear-shattering loud pops I can't bear (they sometimes occur even during PCM track switching). So it's cutting the wires way for me.

 

[Heprer]

Argh I feel like i'm gonna go on a "this is Sparta" rampage with my unit.
So to sum it all up there is no solution firmware or software to the annoying pops. The only solution is to cut some wire inside with the loss of DSD playback or the 2015 version switch.

Does anyone experience pops with optical, coax cable in theory it should, but it doesn't hurt asking.

 

[conquerator2]

 
I wonder how you know this? Have you listened to the combination, or are you just going by what AudioGD says about the differences?
I have a recent model NFB 11 ..if anything I have found it to be way on the mellow smooth side. I have thought it could well be too laid back to get the best out ofr the 560. I should have a HE 560 in hand in the next few days, I will take a listen when I do and let people know...
BTW, if the 15 is more laid back than my 11... it may sound like listening through a wool blanket...a wet one.

I would say the Sabre chip is not a good match with the HE-560 in general, save for the rare implementations, like the Yulong D18 [going by reports and what I read].
I owned the NFB-7 and while very detailed and precise, I don't consider it a good match for the HE-560 from experience. Maybe the NFB-11 is different enough, but that I don't know. I too think the NFB15 would be a better much,,,
We'll see. YMMV.

 

[Surlias]

  I don't really get it .... if you don't care about 'native dsd playback', you just have to set foobar to convert  dsd to pcm on the fly (first,  you need to instal the relevant plug in from here : http://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/ ) ... you choose 'wasapi'' ot ''asio: via ks direct asio'' as foobar's output and you forget about native dsd .... then you 'll never have pops and clicks from the relay anymore ... at least, this is what happened with my nfb 11 (2014) ... I only have the annoying sounds when I try to play native dsd ... never while playing pcm ... I have installed the latest firmware and drivers (latest meaning that they are some months old right now, if i remember well they were out around August 2014 ...
 
All in all : You don't have to cut any wire if you don't care about dsd ... 

 
No this is not the case for me. The issues I'm experiencing with my brand new obsolete NFB-11 aren't just during native DSD playback. It is constant, in ASIO, WASAPI, and DirectSound. Whenever audio playback is initiated, no matter WHAT the scenario, there is a delay during which playback has begun but audio is muted. This is annoying at best, and at worst it renders the NFB-11 useless as a system audio device via USB connection, since many system and application audio cues only last a second, they are completely lost by the mute delay. Not to mention all the clicking noises coming out of the box, which occur ANYTIME audio playback is initiated as well, regardless of the output method (ASIO, WASAPI, DirectSound). For instance, if I open up the properties for the audio-gd entry in Windows audio devices, and go to the tab where you can select a default depth and sample rate, and there try clicking on the "Test" button, the NFB-11 makes clicking noises and outputs only the faintest breath of the tail end of the test audio output because the mute delay has completely wiped it out.
 

 
If I go into the the "sounds" tab of the Windows Sound configuration window where you can change the sound scheme and test the sound of different program events, if I click repeatedly on the "Test" button for any of the program events, the NFB-11 makes a whole lot of clicking noises, and only rarely outputs any audio, and if it does it's just a fraction.
 

 
This was an issue Audio-GD was fully aware of when I purchased the unit, such that they have now released a revised model with a solution. However, they neglected to advertise the issue on the product page, and therefore as far as I'm concerned, I have received a defective product, regardless of whether the issue I'm describing is "intended functionality". I've sent an email to Kingwa saying as much and have requested a refund or an exchange for the new model, which I think is a reasonable request.
 

  Argh I feel like i'm gonna go on a "this is Sparta" rampage with my unit.
So to sum it all up there is no solution firmware or software to the annoying pops. The only solution is to cut some wire inside with the loss of DSD playback or the 2015 version switch.
Does anyone experience pops with optical, coax cable in theory it should, but it doesn't hurt asking.

 
I actually don't hear any pops at the beginning of playback using any of the connectors, just mute. I thought the whole purpose of the muting was to prevent hearing the pops. To avoid the muting problem I've been using optical and haven't experienced either muting or popping. But I bought this unit because it had USB connectivity, so this isn't really a acceptable solution for me.