[rsbrsvp]

A question for my friends: When the DI is hooked up to the R-7HE, and there is an external 10mhz clock connected to the DI and to the R-7HE, are the clocks in sync like a word clock?

 

[bodiebill2]

A definitive answer is whether a DAC really need this flag or can also use auto-detection method in a case pin is not connected. This question Gustard must answer. For your SMSL DAC it is clear that DSD datastream is not detected. You can ask SMSL support centre about firmware upgrade that use autodetection. If they don't answer, it means that they don't have such plans.

Gustard answered my question:
"For R26, when DSD is played back from IIS port, a flag must be given at pin 15. Otherwise, the screen will always display PCM and cannot give the correct sample rate display."
Although they are only talking about 'screen' and 'display', I assume that -- as in the case of the SMSL VMV D2 -- neither will proper playback work in that case.
I will ask them about the auto-detect option via future firmware.

Now I will be shopping for an Audio-gd DAC with 10 MHz clock input. I am considering the R8HE MK2.

 

[FredA]

I am a great Audio-gd fan also! The DI-20HE and Vacuum HE-1 XLR are center pieces in my setup.
Perhaps I will end up with an Audio-gd DAC also, but I must admit I am intrigued by the ethernet input of the Gustard R26.

It has a built in streamer.

 

[FredA]

A question for my friends: When the DI is hooked up to the R-7HE, and there is an external 10mhz clock connected to the DI and to the R-7HE, are the clocks in sync like a word clock?

It is the same clock signal, so yes, the two gears work in synch. Both derive their word clock from the 10m using the same method so end up with synched word clock. There can be a phase difference of course but they are synched.

 

[Jake2]

Gustard answered my question:
"For R26, when DSD is played back from IIS port, a flag must be given at pin 15. Otherwise, the screen will always display PCM and cannot give the correct sample rate display."
Although they are only talking about 'screen' and 'display', I assume that -- as in the case of the SMSL VMV D2 -- neither will proper playback work in that case.
I will ask them about the auto-detect option via future firmware.

Now I will be shopping for an Audio-gd DAC with 10 MHz clock input. I am considering the R8HE MK2.

@ bodiebill

I've been following your investigations on this with great interest, as I'd recently purchased the SMSL VMV D2 with the intention of pairing it with the DI-20HE to handle an almost exclusively native DSD input source. All rather disappointing. On the plus side I fortuitously stumbled across your comments just before I pulled the trigger on the DI-20HE, if not the D2. So I really appreciate all the info you've provided in terms of pin layouts and info from Audio-Gd and Gustard, and IIRC, a still-open query to SMSL.

For what is is worth, as an alternative to the 5v manual re-wiring workaround being raised, one possible option that occurred to me, would be to order a bespoke hdmi cable with a remapping from a 'live' but redundant (for me) non-DSD pin on the DI-20HE switched to 'on/1, and repoint it at the D2's pin 15, which would hopefully give it the 5v trigger it needs. No idea if this would work and/or problems with doing so, or which pin(s) might be candidates for this.

Cheers, Jake
Long time lurker, first time poster

 

[rsbrsvp]

It is the same clock signal, so yes, the two gears work in synch. Both derive their word clock from the 10m using the same method so end up with synched word clock. There can be a phase difference of course but they are synched.

Interesting that most "official" word clock dacs have two inputs for 44 and 48? This makes me question if single input dacs like audio-gd are synchronizing with external clocks. I recently bought a new dac called HIBIKI SDS and the external clock feature has two inputs. I think the Denifrips Dacs do also.

It has a built in streamer.

Can the gustard be fed direct from a ethernet cable from my router? If so- isn't this simply "the best" solution as it avoids usb and HDMI and is as direct as possible? Why doesn't Kingwa put an ethernet input on his dacs?

 

[bodiebill2]

@ bodiebill

I've been following your investigations on this with great interest, as I'd recently purchased the SMSL VMV D2 with the intention of pairing it with the DI-20HE to handle an almost exclusively native DSD input source. All rather disappointing. On the plus side I fortuitously stumbled across your comments just before I pulled the trigger on the DI-20HE, if not the D2. So I really appreciate all the info you've provided in terms of pin layouts and info from Audio-Gd and Gustard, and IIRC, a still-open query to SMSL.

For what is is worth, as an alternative to the 5v manual re-wiring workaround being raised, one possible option that occurred to me, would be to order a bespoke hdmi cable with a remapping from a 'live' but redundant (for me) non-DSD pin on the DI-20HE switched to 'on/1, and repoint it at the D2's pin 15, which would hopefully give it the 5v trigger it needs. No idea if this would work and/or problems with doing so, or which pin(s) might be candidates for this.

Cheers, Jake
Long time lurker, first time poster

hi Jake, creative idea, I recognize the 'don't give up' mentality But better to await guidance from someone more technical than me.

The DI-20HE I would not like to be without, so I sent back the D2, will avoid the R26, and get myself an R8HE MK2 with 75 Ohm clock input. No fancy stuff like volume control or streamer, but usually these disappoint anyway.

 

[FredA]

Can the gustard be fed direct from a ethernet cable from my router? If so- isn't this simply "the best" solution as it avoids usb and HDMI and is as direct as possible? Why doesn't Kingwa put an ethernet input on his dacs?

Having the streamer built-in is a compromise. These connections are a source of noise. Can work very well but you don't get the same level of isolation to noise. The rj45 is not galvanically isolated by default.

 

[bodiebill2]

Gustard promise additional functionality via firmware in future. NAA would be nice.
I never liked streaming SQ wise until I used Diretta, and now Ravenna. So it depends on the SW implementation and HW (fiber, EtherRegen etc.).
Sorry, I realize this rather belongs in the Gustard thread...

 

[sajunky]

Interesting that most "official" word clock dacs have two inputs for 44 and 48? This makes me question if single input dacs like audio-gd are synchronizing with external clocks. I recently bought a new dac called HIBIKI SDS and the external clock feature has two inputs. I think the Denifrips Dacs do also.

Two "official" clock inputs was an established standard for many years, but recently is replaced with a single 10MHz input. A single cable means less crowding, it also makes a system more immune to the electromagnetic interference (EMI) that would generate between two cables. It is a latest trend. Your concern is whether 10MHz clock provide a perfect synchronisation, the answer is YES. It is done with the latest technology called a digital clock synthesiser implemented in FPGA. All DACs in this price range are bulit on a basis of very complex FPGA, these circuits are not 100% utilised, so adding a clock synthesiser is a matter of having necessary skills with only few external components.

One warning. You won't be able to use your SBS clock with Denafrips Terminator Plus/II. It has a reversed function (output, not input), it will work only with Denafrips DDC as nobody else do the same.

Can the gustard be fed direct from a ethernet cable from my router? If so- isn't this simply "the best" solution as it avoids usb and HDMI and is as direct as possible? Why doesn't Kingwa put an ethernet input on his dacs?

Yes, network streaming is an interesting trend, but still immature. It is probably sponsored by such guys like Roon. Ask them whether it runs proprietary software or you can use open source software and which one. As long there is no established standard, I would rather install a small box based on RPi 4 with HDMI I2S output. There is also a concern of ground loops on the long Ethernet cable. @FredA has mentioned it, for this reason I would also prefer to wire network streamer to a DDC, not directly to a DAC.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I run Bluesound boxes into both my DI-20s over coax. On the big rig it then goes from the DI-20HE via IIS into my R8 MK2 and also into a Mutec MC3+ USB via AES/EBU and then on to wherever (i.e. R8 over AES/EBU or other devices).

In the headstation, from the DI-20 into a Brooklyn DAC+ over AES/EBU and an RME ADI-2 DAC FS over coax. RME doesn't have AES/EBU input on the non-pro model.

The Bluesound might not be the ultimate in sound quality but it's a convenient solution since it supports more streaming services than any other devices I'm aware of, it supports MQA, and the apps on Windows, Android etc. control multiple devices in one place.

 

[FredA]

For a streamer, i prefer one with a clean usb output, ideally with a 10M input, and let the di20he do the interfacing with the dac. . The Sotm fits that bill but its price is a bit high for what it is.

 

[FredA]

Took the stabilant 22 contact enhancer off the streamer psu's fuse this morning. Won't be using it for a while... It made the sound sterile. Maybe i was not patient enough... The sound has more body without it. 200cad for this....

 

[bodiebill2]

For a streamer, i prefer one with a clean usb output, ideally with a 10M input, and let the di20he do the interfacing with the dac. . The Sotm fits that bill but its price is a bit high for what it is.

An Afterdark Rossana streamer with the right options also fits the bill.

 

[rsbrsvp]

Two "official" clock inputs was an established standard for many years, but recently is replaced with a single 10MHz input. A single cable means less crowding, it also makes a system more immune to the electromagnetic interference (EMI) that would generate between two cables. It is a latest trend. Your concern is whether 10MHz clock provide a perfect synchronisation, the answer is YES. It is done with the latest technology called a digital clock synthesiser implemented in FPGA. All DACs in this price range are bulit on a basis of very complex FPGA, these circuits are not 100% utilised, so adding a clock synthesiser is a matter of having necessary skills with only few external components.

One warning. You won't be able to use your SBS clock with Denafrips Terminator Plus/II. It has a reversed function (output, not input), it will work only with Denafrips DDC as nobody else do the same.

Yes, network streaming is an interesting trend, but still immature. It is probably sponsored by such guys like Roon. Ask them whether it runs proprietary software or you can use open source software and which one. As long there is no established standard, I would rather install a small box based on RPi 4 with HDMI I2S output. There is also a concern of ground loops on the long Ethernet cable. @FredA has mentioned it, for this reason I would also prefer to wire network streamer to a DDC, not directly to a DAC.

I don't get the problem. Put a Uptone Audio etherregen between the Ethernet connection and the Gutard or a phoenixnet. These reclock, galvanically isolate, etc.. Why introduce HDMI or SPDIF?. There are all kinds of fancy ethernet isolating mechanisms on the market.... Kingwa needs to add ehternet as another option for the DI input and output...