Audio-GD DI-20
post-15923614
Post #2,221 of 2,353

sajunky

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Messages
286
Reaction score
159
Location
South Africa
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Location
South Africa
Posts
286
Likes
159
@blackpepperjam Verify that all your power cable are well inserted.

Why 2 usb cables?
This. Keep it simple when testing. Disconnect unnecessary devices. Also, (If I can help a bit) I think from a description that problem is more serious. It could be a simple phase reversal of one channel. A swapped pin connections on the balanced cable can cause it. There are free test audio samples available that help to find out.
 
Last edited:
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: motberg
post-15923670
Post #2,222 of 2,353

rsbrsvp

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
1,091
Reaction score
300
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Posts
1,091
Likes
300
I'm not saying there cannot be depth or staging (also in depth), just that often with seemingly pinpoint 3D phase linearity is messed up over the bandwidth and dynamics suffer. Many folks are so dazzled by the 3D they do not miss the dynamics.
I love the beautiful analogue musicality of the new 4.075 and 4.076- but no question to my ears it is more smeared than earlier versions. I have flipped FW's many times to compare and have easily confirmed this. For now my favorite FW is 4.07b4 as the detail and dynamics are stunning and there is plenty of analogue flavor even though it is not as much as the new 75 and 76 versions.

It is all a matter of balance and everyone must call it as they hear it.
 
Last edited:
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: FredA
post-15923681
Post #2,223 of 2,353

Thenewguy007

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
312
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Posts
1,680
Likes
312
Doing the update is no problem. Installing the altera sw and the proper driver is where the difficulty is.

You can get the altera sw here

https://onedrive.live.com/?id=636DC4E8060D66A1!172&cid=636DC4E8060D66A1

And as for installing he usb blaster driver, first you may have to uninstall a driver automatically installed by windows. To do this, you have to locate the corresponding item in the device manager (unplugging and replugging helps in that the item will disappears than reappear from/in the device list) and use the popup menu to select the corresponding choice.

Then use this link to manually install the driver from the altera installation directory (your have to have the altera sw installed first of course) :

https://www.driverscape.com/articles/how-to-install-a-driver-manually

Then use Kingwa's procedure for the fw update. Avoid touching the red button while the DI20 is turned on, it will reset the amanero fw....

Then follow this procedure below. The update connector is at the back, no need to take off the cover. The di20 needs to be turned off while plugging/unplugging the cable, and the blaster needs to be disconnected from the update pc. The indentation in the connector goes upward.

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R8/R8updateEN.htm

Is this how you update or downgrade firmware with the DI-20?

Buy a USB Blaster , uninstall the Amanero driver on your PC, download & install Altera 16.0 on your PC, connect the USB blaster to the DI-20/PC & then power it on.
Open up Altera & go through the steps until you select the jic update firmware file you want?
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: edwhiu
post-15923707
Post #2,224 of 2,353

FredA

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
3,375
Reaction score
1,263
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Posts
3,375
Likes
1,263
Something like this except the amenero driver does not need be uninstalled, only the USB blaster’s cause windows install one by default, which is not good.
 
     Share This Post       
post-15923809
Post #2,225 of 2,353

blackpepperjam

New Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
10
Location
Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia, near Gütersloh
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Location
Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia, near Gütersloh
Posts
11
Likes
10
Is burn-in done with all your gears?
Hi Fred,

I am in the AudioGD camp quite some time. I have started with the HE7 in mid 2015. The DAC went through several updates (hardware/firmware), inlcuding internal Singxer F1. Even this year an update to the HE7 2020 because of a power supply failure.
HE9 joined in 2016... I think.
Beginning of 2020 the DI20HE.

So yea, it should all be burned in enough :)

btw, I am using the internal clocks only. No external at hand so far.

And most of the critial listening is done with headphones.

Did you try 4.07b3? If so, was it good with imaging?
I have used v4.07b1 together with my Hifiman HE6 with Forza Audioworks Noir Hybrid HPC to get some color tonality wise. With the Harmonix TU-210 ZX feet under the HE9, a match made in heaven :)
I have not tried v4.07b3 but I do have tried v4.07b4 which i liked much better and which works well enough with more revealing headphones like HD800 , but still too clinical with the k812. Once again really good with the HE6 + Harmonix.
As well as v3.9 (march 2020), which was the first update after the original firmware v3.32 (nov. 2019), which was the most analog-like and live-like experiences with the DI20HE with he HD800 and K812. Again, the Harmonix were a requirement under the HE9 or HE7... I can't remember. They have a bigger effect on the sound under the HE9 for sure.

In general, the Harmonix and Shakti Stones are in use to beautify a more clinical representation
I do have a shakti stone in use mostly on top of the DI20HE when listening to speakers.
http://www.shakti-innovations.com/product/shakti-stone/
I even use Ikea bamboo cutting boards if needed :)

As of the current firmware v4.075 and v4.076 I have no beautifying tweaks in use. The HE7 is not even running in TDA mode. And the DI20HE is in parallel mode.
But still, very smoothed over... not enough definition going on. Specially microdynamics are suffering. Not as defined like with a friends Rega RP3 vinyl rig.
I have a cheapo low tier Pro-ject... something. And no, my digital setup can extract more details etc etc... but what comes out of the Pro-ject is well! defined, dynamic, with body and drive and.... less blurry, for example, a more solid and defined center image!!!

I can compare Vinyl vs Digital in my audio chain listening to 4 albums:
  • David lynch - Crazy Clown Time
  • Sara K - Are We There Yet (live in concert)
  • Cassandra Wilson -Glamoured
  • Malia - Convergence
For debugging purposes I can compare the
HE7 vs my old Violectric V800, the
HE9 vs my Bryston BHA-1 and the
DI20HE vs a Acousence Artistic Fidelity ARFI USB.


I guess, I dont see, where Kingwa is going with the current final versions of the firmware and I will go back to a more precise one and apply beautifying tweaks to get a better balance that my ears agree with more.
My guess is, that the firmware of the DI20HE is getting developed with the R7HE 2020, which is a bit less warm and does microdynamics and imaging better...so, its the whole chain that matters. I might get a R7HE 2020 at some point. But... I am in no hurry :)

cheers,
Daniel
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: ToddRaymond
post-15923938
Post #2,226 of 2,353

FredA

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
3,375
Reaction score
1,263
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Posts
3,375
Likes
1,263
Hi Fred,

I am in the AudioGD camp quite some time. I have started with the HE7 in mid 2015. The DAC went through several updates (hardware/firmware), inlcuding internal Singxer F1. Even this year an update to the HE7 2020 because of a power supply failure.
HE9 joined in 2016... I think.
Beginning of 2020 the DI20HE.

So yea, it should all be burned in enough :)

btw, I am using the internal clocks only. No external at hand so far.

And most of the critial listening is done with headphones.


I have used v4.07b1 together with my Hifiman HE6 with Forza Audioworks Noir Hybrid HPC to get some color tonality wise. With the Harmonix TU-210 ZX feet under the HE9, a match made in heaven :)
I have not tried v4.07b3 but I do have tried v4.07b4 which i liked much better and which works well enough with more revealing headphones like HD800 , but still too clinical with the k812. Once again really good with the HE6 + Harmonix.
As well as v3.9 (march 2020), which was the first update after the original firmware v3.32 (nov. 2019), which was the most analog-like and live-like experiences with the DI20HE with he HD800 and K812. Again, the Harmonix were a requirement under the HE9 or HE7... I can't remember. They have a bigger effect on the sound under the HE9 for sure.

In general, the Harmonix and Shakti Stones are in use to beautify a more clinical representation
I do have a shakti stone in use mostly on top of the DI20HE when listening to speakers.
http://www.shakti-innovations.com/product/shakti-stone/
I even use Ikea bamboo cutting boards if needed :)

As of the current firmware v4.075 and v4.076 I have no beautifying tweaks in use. The HE7 is not even running in TDA mode. And the DI20HE is in parallel mode.
But still, very smoothed over... not enough definition going on. Specially microdynamics are suffering. Not as defined like with a friends Rega RP3 vinyl rig.
I have a cheapo low tier Pro-ject... something. And no, my digital setup can extract more details etc etc... but what comes out of the Pro-ject is well! defined, dynamic, with body and drive and.... less blurry, for example, a more solid and defined center image!!!

I can compare Vinyl vs Digital in my audio chain listening to 4 albums:
  • David lynch - Crazy Clown Time
  • Sara K - Are We There Yet (live in concert)
  • Cassandra Wilson -Glamoured
  • Malia - Convergence
For debugging purposes I can compare the
HE7 vs my old Violectric V800, the
HE9 vs my Bryston BHA-1 and the
DI20HE vs a Acousence Artistic Fidelity ARFI USB.


I guess, I dont see, where Kingwa is going with the current final versions of the firmware and I will go back to a more precise one and apply beautifying tweaks to get a better balance that my ears agree with more.
My guess is, that the firmware of the DI20HE is getting developed with the R7HE 2020, which is a bit less warm and does microdynamics and imaging better...so, its the whole chain that matters. I might get a R7HE 2020 at some point. But... I am in no hurry :)

cheers,
Daniel
Good point, Daniel. The 1704 is warmer so i understand you would favor b1. Or 3.9. My favorite prior was 3.93. These new fws are indeed tweaked for the r7he. I like the 1704k dacs very much too. I guess you could try a silver ic if not what you have already. So you are a well aware audiophile, that's good.

It's all about music, and i enjoy my setup everyday. Anything that can push it further is considered, not much budget limit for me. But i try to be raisonnable. Just ordered a nimak silver usb cable on ebay,. I read the specs and thought the cable was properly designed. Under 200usd so no pain. The new fws like a silver usb cable.

Working from home, my setup is my daily companion and an essential part of my life. I thank Kingwa for making these highly musical and non fatiguing gears. They are vital to me. I have had the most productive year of my life working from home. Having Bill Evans, Chet Baker, and others in the room was a great inspiration.
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: ToddRaymond
post-15924415
Post #2,227 of 2,353

rsbrsvp

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
1,091
Reaction score
300
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Posts
1,091
Likes
300
Fred- I have the Nimak Purple usb cable and it is fantastic......
I have the Nimac flagship power cables as well and they changed everything.
 
     Share This Post       
post-15924461
Post #2,228 of 2,353

PLGA

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
244
Reaction score
125
Location
Argentina
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Location
Argentina
Posts
244
Likes
125
I don't know you guys, but with 75 firmware, as with other firmwares before, I get considerably better sound from AES/EBU connection between my DI-20 and my R8 DAC than I2S. Better definition, tone, smoothness, layering, detail, etc.

The AES/EBU cable is 1m long vs the 0.6m long Blue Jeans Belden HDMI.

Shouldn't be I2S a better connection? What am I missing?

By the way the AES/EBU cable is a chinese Nordost fake XLR, nothing exotic.
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: Mix80
post-15924608
Post #2,229 of 2,353

blackpepperjam

New Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
10
Location
Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia, near Gütersloh
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Location
Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia, near Gütersloh
Posts
11
Likes
10
The new fws like a silver usb cable
Hi Fred,

I do have all solidcore 7n Silver IC's, only USB cable is 5n, i think. If I am not mistaken, the wires for the USB cable are from neotech. And the 7n stuff.. I have no idea. The cable guy said, that his supplier of the raw material is having trouble because of covid. But its material you dont get on ebay or similar.

I have the Nimac flagship power cables as well and they changed everything.
Hi rsbrsvp,

thank you for the hint. Can you elaborate a bit more about tonality (for example focus on guitar strings or more the body) and soundstage rendering (closer to the stage or more far away)?

...I get considerably better sound from AES/EBU connection between my DI-20 and my R8 DAC than I2S. Better definition, tone, smoothness, layering, detail, etc.
The AES/EBU cable is 1m long vs the 0.6m long Blue Jeans Belden HDMI.
Shouldn't be I2S a better connection? What am I missing?
Hi PLGA,

that is what i have noticed as well with all Firmwares.
My explanation would be, that for i2s, the length of the cable should be as short as possible (<=30cm). The quality of the wires used in the cable are important too. The Blue Jeans is not as transparent and is sounding darker/muddy compared to my solidcore 7n Silver AES cable. So I have tried another HDMI cable that was mentioned somewhere around here. Moshou 8k something. I have linked to that one on amazon. Tonality wise it is more similar to my AES connection. But still less defined, more rough, less stable imaging... the usual attributes of lower quality wire material.
On top of that I would try JSSG shielding.
Speaking of my setup the I2s cable is a WIP for sure.

cheers,
Daniel
 
Last edited:
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: FredA
post-15924629
Post #2,230 of 2,353

Toni-Mang

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
102
Reaction score
61
Location
Germany
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Location
Germany
Posts
102
Likes
61
@blackpepperjam , thank you for your hints, which leads me to further critical listening sessions with firmwarechanges and comparisons to my PSAudio PWT.
Both are connected to the R8 via i2s (i have i2s on Input 4 and 5) and i can compare both sources by input button on the r8 simultanusly. I will keep firmware 4.076 for a while, i still like this version of presentation. The PWT is indead more pinpoint sharp, but the presentation of the DI20HE is at least as large and wide now. And i still prefer S mode, and no headphone testing yet.
I had phase relatet issues with scewed or shifted soundstage in the past with early firmwares before...this is gone complet. I am sensibel regarding a too centered image or a small instrument or voice presentation (thin an clinical as some low end sd dacs). For me it is important, that the width is filled evenly and jucy and the image is wider as the speaker setup., just like a good vinyl setup. But it is good, that we have different experiences, for cross checking purpose, because it is as ever subjective and i am also a cable matters nerd...
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: FredA
post-15924631
Post #2,231 of 2,353

rsbrsvp

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
1,091
Reaction score
300
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Posts
1,091
Likes
300
Hi rsbrsvp,

thank you for the hint. Can you elaborate a bit more about tonality (for example focus on guitar strings or more the body) and soundstage rendering (closer to the stage or more far away)?
My easiest description of how these power cables effected my system is (substantially more open and more analogue). Cant say how you will react.
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: marcelnl
post-15924750
Post #2,232 of 2,353

blackpepperjam

New Head-Fier
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Messages
11
Reaction score
10
Location
Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia, near Gütersloh
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Location
Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia, near Gütersloh
Posts
11
Likes
10
Hi all,

I have nailed down the problem to the Aries... it is not a cabling issue nor audio gd gear fault. Its just, those cables do not mask anything and the Audiogd stuff is telling me "dude, you have an issue somewhere upstream!"

hmmm, after writing those lines, I might should look into visiting a psychiatrist...

Anyways, I will report back in more detail. Stay tuned...

cheers,
Daniel
 
     Share This Post       
post-15924764
Post #2,233 of 2,353

FredA

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
3,375
Reaction score
1,263
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Posts
3,375
Likes
1,263
My easiest description of how these power cables effected my system is (substantially more open and more analogue). Cant say how you will react.
What a coincidence, i got a 65cm Nimak Black usb cable. I will get it within a month or two.
 
     Share This Post       
post-15924767
Post #2,234 of 2,353

FredA

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
3,375
Reaction score
1,263
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Posts
3,375
Likes
1,263
I don't know you guys, but with 75 firmware, as with other firmwares before, I get considerably better sound from AES/EBU connection between my DI-20 and my R8 DAC than I2S. Better definition, tone, smoothness, layering, detail, etc.

The AES/EBU cable is 1m long vs the 0.6m long Blue Jeans Belden HDMI.

Shouldn't be I2S a better connection? What am I missing?

By the way the AES/EBU cable is a chinese Nordost fake XLR, nothing exotic.
Kingwa worked on spdif i believe. I2s has its issues, for instance, all the signals do not arrive in perfectly synched. With algortihmc development, maybe Kingwa achieved better performance with SPDIF. I will give it a try, thanks for the info.
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: PLGA
post-15924782
Post #2,235 of 2,353

rsbrsvp

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
1,091
Reaction score
300
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Posts
1,091
Likes
300
I have been doing a lot of experimentation with the firmware along with different options on my dac.

On the DI I have "S" and "P" and internal and external clock options.
On my DAC I have "R" and "T" along with several NOS and up sample options. I also have internal and external clock options on my DAC.

Once I try different firmware and mix in the above mentioned options, the variation of results is actually more than enough to tune the sound quite a bit.

Every single change in any of the above results in a noticeable change in sonics and which is why even if we all had the exact same equipment and cables the results would vary.

I really have enjoyed the incredible analogue 3D musicality of FW 3.075 but found it lost to much detail and separation in that beautiful smoothness until I changed my dac from 8X upsample to NOS. NOS in this mix brought forward much micro-detail and reduced the perceived smearing that 8X induced in this mix. The Irony is I have always found 8X increases detail but in the newer firmware's NOS is clearer with better separation. Maybe my ears are changing.
 
     Share This Post       
  • Like
Reactions: ToddRaymond

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 6, Guests: 12)

Top