[inthere]

Damn sound is so good that I don't want to take Sine offfff, but after 2 hours ears start to hurt....
Since I am used to long sessions it's kind of a problem. If only Sine was made as Over the ear headphone...

You can change it to over ear with Marshall Monitor ear pads, you can get them from Marshall's headphone site for $20

 

[Slaphead]

Do you have perhaps two more examples?

It's a comparison between something that costs more than the most expensive beats (at one point anyway) to something 4x that.

If Beats is your rationale behind the comparison, that isn't a great example. A $300 phone that sounds like a $100 phone isn't the same comparison as seeing if a $1200 phone sounds like a $400 phone.

OK, I can give you a couple more examples from personal experience.

The Chord Mojo. A $600 portable DAC and Amp which is so good that it has convinced a fair number of head-fiers to get rid their $1000 plus rigs and just go with the Mojo.

Then there's the old Beyerdynamic DT880, a $250 headphone, which I've found that you have to start looking upwards of a $1000 these days to really begin to better it - especially when it comes to classical, jazz and acoustic.

IMO there's a price sweetspot for headphones and that is in the price range of around $250-500. Yes you can get better above that price range, but IMO when you start looking above $500 it's more about personal preference than any real objective improvements. That's not to say there aren't any improvements, it's just that a $2000 headphone isn't going to be 4 times better than a $500 headphone, assuming that it is indeed better, and doesn't just have a more preferable voicing.

So yes, for me it really does serve as a reality check to compare a headphone to another costing 3, 4, 5, times the price.

 

[inthere]

Also there's the off chance that you may NOT like the voicing on a $2000 headphone. By comparing headphones with another headphone that were familiar with we can get an idea of what to expect

 

[subguy812]

That would be musicality, a facet of listening that is often overlooked in the pursuit of the most accurate reproduction.

Ding Ding Ding... The Sine is very musical and you are correct it is often the most overlooked aspect.

 

[jjsoviet]

Ding Ding Ding... The Sine is very musical and you are correct it is often the most overlooked aspect.

What's more notable is that it's very detailed and neutral while still retaining that musicality. It's a great all-rounder that you can use as both a home and mobile companion.

 

[thefitz]

So yes, for me it really does serve as a reality check to compare a headphone to another costing 3, 4, 5, times the price.

Indeed, the diminishing returns of head-fi are noted. It just seems that when people compare out of their price range (by 3x+ multipliers), they're almost always only intending to buy/already have the cheaper one. It's not too often that people legitimately compare $400 to $1200 cans in an effort to decide between the two.
 
Case in point: Xiaomi Piston 2. A $25 in ear that sounds like a $75 in ear, so people say it sounds like a $150 in ear and lurk the forums of $300 in ears trying to look for "a comparison".

 

[inthere]

Oops

 

[JPizzzle]

Anyone know how these would compare to the byerdynamic t5p second generation?

 

[WriterHead]

OK, I can give you a couple more examples from personal experience.

The Chord Mojo. A $600 portable DAC and Amp which is so good that it has convinced a fair number of head-fiers to get rid their $1000 plus rigs and just go with the Mojo.

Then there's the old Beyerdynamic DT880, a $250 headphone, which I've found that you have to start looking upwards of a $1000 these days to really begin to better it - especially when it comes to classical, jazz and acoustic.

IMO there's a price sweetspot for headphones and that is in the price range of around $250-500. Yes you can get better above that price range, but IMO when you start looking above $500 it's more about personal preference than any real objective improvements. That's not to say there aren't any improvements, it's just that a $2000 headphone isn't going to be 4 times better than a $500 headphone, assuming that it is indeed better, and doesn't just have a more preferable voicing.

So yes, for me it really does serve as a reality check to compare a headphone to another costing 3, 4, 5, times the price.

Hifiman HE400i costs 499$ and it's much better than DT880. 

 

[Slaphead]

Hifiman HE400i costs 499$ and it's much better than DT880. 

Much better? Subjective or objective? In any event how can we qualify that? I can't even begin to as I've yet to hear the HE400i, but I do take your point as the DT880 driver tech is really from over a decade ago, but then again driver technology doesn't really move that fast. So what constitutes "much better"? I'll try to give you a subjective example from my opinions of headphones that I have in my stable and have listened to extensively.

I can quite categorically say that the Beyerdynamic DT1770 pro is much better than the DT880, but I can also say that the DT880 is much better than the DT1770 pro. How's that then? How can two different headphones be better than each other. Well that depends.

The DT1770 pro is much better than the DT880 when I'm banging my head to Trance, DnB or Techno - it is, after all, what the DT1770 pro was designed for. Listening to the same music on the DT880 simply tears my ears out as the treble and upper mids are far to forward and the bass is recessed.

On the other hand the DT1770 pro fails at classical, acoustic and jazz as the bass is too forward and the mids are recessed making the tone unnatural, and this makes the DT880 a much better HP for these genres.

Another example which will hopefully bring this back on topic is the Beyerdynamic DT1350 vs the SINE. (I'll bet you're seeing a trend here and I'll admit that I'm quite a Beyerdynamic fan)

The DT1350 is much better than the SINE, but also the SINE is much better than the DT1350. However this time it comes down to usage case as both headphones are actually quite tonally similar to my ears in that both have a great midrange and both are very musical.

The DT1350 is much better than the SINE when being used as a portable headphone. This is due to the DT1350s much better isolation (it's probably the best isolating on ear headphone in existence), and it's more forward bass, which, as you probably know, bass is the first frequency range to disappear when you're exposed to the ambient noise of an average city street, or public transport. In the same scenario the SINE pretty much loses everything it might have over the DT1350 and a lot more due to it's inferior isolation.

On the flip side the SINE is much better than the DT1350 when using it in a relatively quiet space such as an office or hotel room. The extra gob of bass that the DT1350 provides is not particularly welcome here as it makes the DT1350 sound a tad congested. In this scenario the finer points of the SINE come through with it's overall better detail and instrument separation.

So saying one headphone is much better than another is not really a clear cut thing, and to be able to ascertain it's "betterness" you need to put additional variables into the equation such as musical genre and usage case.

Anyway thanks for the tip on the HE400i - I'll certainly get a demo of them together with the Beyer T1 original (there I go again) as both are now similarly priced where I am.

 

[rizki8490]

Damn sound is so good that I don't want to take Sine offfff, but after 2 hours ears start to hurt....
Since I am used to long sessions it's kind of a problem. If only Sine was made as Over the ear headphone...

I used brainwavz hm5 pleather pads which is super comfy, just replaced it with stock pads and you are done. In this case you switching it with hm5 pads will improve sub bass dramatically but also reduce the impact in mid bass but not much. Mid section seems like not "in your face" anymore like when using stock pads, its clearly back off a bit like the singer is actually singing in front of you. And the treble feels more sparkly which is good in my taste. Soundstage also improved due to bigger room in pads. Its just my opinion afterall

 

[inthere]

  I used brainwavz hm5 pleather pads which is super comfy, just replaced it with stock pads and you are done. In this case you switching it with hm5 pads will improve sub bass dramatically but also reduce the impact in mid bass but not much. Mid section seems like not "in your face" anymore like when using stock pads, its clearly back off a bit like the singer is actually singing in front of you. And the treble feels more sparkly which is good in my taste. Soundstage also improved due to bigger room in pads. Its just my opinion afterall

 
Brainwave pads make the Sine over ear, correct?

 

[rizki8490]

Brainwave pads make the Sine over ear, correct?

Yup you are correct.its super comfy while stock pads only last for 2 hours on my ear, it gets uncomfortable. After i switched it with hm5 pads i can wear it more than 6 hours without issue

 

[SwedishBass]

Yup you are correct.its super comfy while stock pads only last for 2 hours on my ear, it gets uncomfortable. After i switched it with hm5 pads i can wear it more than 6 hours without issue

Does it change the sound noticeably, or would you say the differences you listed above are small?

 

[rizki8490]

Does it change the sound noticeably, or would you say the differences you listed above are small?

I cant say small, in fact it does alter the sound sig. If you really like the mids in stock pads which really upfront and thick sounding, i dont think you'd like with hm5 pads because it sounds "bit" laid back and revealing. As it sometimes get sibilant with bad recordings

Some of my friends who use he500 and he400i really like the sound with hm5 pads. Which has noticably larger soundstage, fuller sound due to improved sub bass, and nice attack of treble. The detail also improved