Audeze SINE Series
Nov 12, 2016 at 10:59 PM Post #2,836 of 4,673

fuhransahis

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So this is a pretty basic post, but my Sines used with a Mojo and Galaxy S7 Edge were my first foray into the audiophile rabbit hole (to my bank account's dismay I have my eyes set on a future purchase of the Ether C Flows and Nobe Katana). I've refused to listen to no other headphone but my Sines and Mojo since I got them in June, both because of a slight snobbery on my part but also probably mostly because of fear, as if I was afraid that if I listened to some stock headphones I'd discover that I wasted nearly $1,000 on top of countless hours of research on a set of overpriced headphones and an even more expensive small black box that I have to carry around with me. I also have the adapter sold by inertianinja to use with the ATX70 earpads so they're over ear.

Tonight I had to travel with the stock Samsung earbuds while visiting a friend... WOW. I have no idea how people use these. It literally gives me a headache, the sound is so muffled and contained in a muddy ugly shell... I'd rather not listen to anything, and that says a lot since I'm constantly listening to music. It is beyond me how any manufacturer can listen to music with these and give them an OK for production.

Perhaps not an in depth analysis nor is it obviously a fair comparison in any way between both headsets... but rather a cheers to our endeavor to enjoy music as it is truly meant to be enjoyed... to listen to it as unfiltered as possible and in as full a clarity as we can get. Let's not forget that this is the end result of all we strive for and not get lost in over-analyzed and pedantic comparisons between different devices.

If that is kept in mind... our money is very well spent and I'll gladly haul along my Mojo and Sines to wherever I can bring them.
 
Nov 13, 2016 at 12:48 AM Post #2,837 of 4,673

sup27606

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  https://www.amazon.com/TechMatte-Lightning-Charging-Adapter-Connector/dp/B01JGBVRE6/ref=pd_bxgy_23_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01JGBVRE6&pd_rd_r=E7BK22H341KENSPS88NP&pd_rd_w=FhuUK&pd_rd_wg=8dmdB&psc=1&refRID=E7BK22H341KENSPS88NP
 
will something like this make cipher cable work with pc/mac laptop?


Nope. Tried the exact same one you mentioned. It says, 'USB device drawing too much current'. My advice, don't bother with making the cipher cable work. It's meant for mobile device use and really not the best one to use with Sine as primary DAC/AMP. Your headphones can sound way better with a high quality DAC/AMP (by high quality, I don't mean $1000, you can take one zero out). Check this (long) thread for some great options. You won't be sorry.
 
Nov 13, 2016 at 7:07 PM Post #2,838 of 4,673

Maelob

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Hi all anyone compared the sine vs vmoda x100?

I had the wireless vmoda which is similar to the x100. I loved the punchy bass but after a while got tired of it- really wanted more clarity and refinement- sines deliver the clarity and refinement while not been shy on the bass. To me it hits all the checkboxes.
 
Nov 14, 2016 at 4:27 AM Post #2,840 of 4,673

acia

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Nope. Tried the exact same one you mentioned. It says, 'USB device drawing too much current'. My advice, don't bother with making the cipher cable work. It's meant for mobile device use and really not the best one to use with Sine as primary DAC/AMP. Your headphones can sound way better with a high quality DAC/AMP (by high quality, I don't mean $1000, you can take one zero out). Check this (long) thread for some great options. You won't be sorry.


how about on pc/windows?  it shouldn't show over drawing of current at the usb port.  
 
the usb port of MacBook should be able to supply 1A anyway.  it's strange that it's drawing more than 1A.
 
Nov 14, 2016 at 1:25 PM Post #2,841 of 4,673

sup27606

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how about on pc/windows?  it shouldn't show over drawing of current at the usb port.  
 
the usb port of MacBook should be able to supply 1A anyway.  it's strange that it's drawing more than 1A.


I haven't tried with windows. To avoid the problem of high current, I even tried with a powered USB hub and it still gave that message 
confused_face_2.gif
. To test further, I connected the cipher to a lightning to USB cable, then to the apple camera adapter, followed by ipad. The ipad complained that USB device is drawing too much power. When I connect the cipher directly to the ipad, I get no such message.
 
I may be wrong, but this may be a deliberate ploy to disable the use of cipher anywhere except iOS devices. I think, the cipher cable is detecting that it is being connected to a USB port instead of the lightning port of the ipad, and intentionally drawing high current, so that the USB connection gets disabled. I may be wrong. Now if thats the case, can it be defeated? I think it is possible by someone with low level knowledge of USB and lightning. Whether it is worth it is another question.
 
Nov 15, 2016 at 9:16 AM Post #2,842 of 4,673

DreMag

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I've just bought a pair of the Sines with the Cipher cable.  Two days into it, I'm starting to get a crackling sound whenever I move my head.  For some reason the sound also seems a lot duller and lifeless than I remember when I first got these (maybe it's my head "burning in").  Do you guys think I may have damaged the driver?  Blown it?
 
Nov 15, 2016 at 11:33 AM Post #2,843 of 4,673

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Most probably the mylar sheet (or should it spell "****") has been moved :
One of the major design bug in the Sine is that they forgot to have a vent hole in order to de-pressurize the mylar sheet.
If you press Sine against your ear (and that will happen, i tell you) , you will soon have mylar noise when moving the headphones on your head.
If you press Sine earned against a glazed table, most probably you will have it to be replaced: 
 
Sine is too good to hear , a real pleasure, but it is also so badly designed !!! Because the 100% look based design doesn't make it all : this headphone is both fragile and uncomfortable. (typical of Porsche design)
 
 
 
edited for mis-spell
 
Nov 15, 2016 at 7:12 PM Post #2,844 of 4,673

bsd107

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Cipher Sampling Rates Supported?
 
I have an interest in playing lossless High-Res Audio files on my iPhone.  Audeze, and every review that I can find, only talks about the DSP and DAC being "24-bit".  No where can I find any information on what actual sampling rates are supported by the Cipher.
 
I have a pair of Sony MDR-1ADAC, which are headphones that come with an integrated powered amplifier and DAC.  It comes with a variety of cables, and when connecting via USB to a PC, the DAC natively supports sound sources of 16-bit, 24-bit, and sampling frequencies of 44kHz up to 192kHz.  However, when using the included Sony lightning cable, as per the Sony manual the MDR-1ADAC will accept only 16-bit at 44.1kHz or 48kHz from an iOS device.
What I have found since iOS 10, and its many bugs, is that using the MDR-1ADAC lightning cable with any iOS device (iPhone 7+, iPad 2, iPhone 5S) I can actually only get 44.1kHz from the iOS device.  When using Apple's Lightning Earpods (included with the iPhone 7+), the sound source is converted to either 44.1kHz or 48kHz by the iPhone, whichever is most appropriate given the source (e.g. sound files at sampling rates double or triple 48kHz are sent as 48kHz).  When playing through the iPhone 7+ internal speaker, only 48kHz is output.
 
I have several apps which play lossless audio files (e.g. FLAC, WAV, AAC lossless) and will actually show you what sampling rate is being output through the lightning port.  Korg iAudioGate and NePLAYER are two such apps for iOS.  This is how I am able to verify what sampling rate is being output.
 
Can anyone tell me what sampling rates are supported by the SINE's Cipher cable?  I am interested in the SINE with Cipher, but I want to be able to play lossless 96kHz or 192kHz audio files and have the sound data be sent at the native sampling rate to the Cipher DAC.  Does the Cipher DAC only support 44.1kHz or 48kHz input?
 
Nov 15, 2016 at 7:41 PM Post #2,845 of 4,673

jagwap

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  Cipher Sampling Rates Supported?
 
I have an interest in playing lossless High-Res Audio files on my iPhone.  Audeze, and every review that I can find, only talks about the DSP and DAC being "24-bit".  No where can I find any information on what actual sampling rates are supported by the Cipher.
 
I have a pair of Sony MDR-1ADAC, which are headphones that come with an integrated powered amplifier and DAC.  It comes with a variety of cables, and when connecting via USB to a PC, the DAC natively supports sound sources of 16-bit, 24-bit, and sampling frequencies of 44kHz up to 192kHz.  However, when using the included Sony lightning cable, as per the Sony manual the MDR-1ADAC will accept only 16-bit at 44.1kHz or 48kHz from an iOS device.
What I have found since iOS 10, and its many bugs, is that using the MDR-1ADAC lightning cable with any iOS device (iPhone 7+, iPad 2, iPhone 5S) I can actually only get 44.1kHz from the iOS device.  When using Apple's Lightning Earpods (included with the iPhone 7+), the sound source is converted to either 44.1kHz or 48kHz by the iPhone, whichever is most appropriate given the source (e.g. sound files at sampling rates double or triple 48kHz are sent as 48kHz).  When playing through the iPhone 7+ internal speaker, only 48kHz is output.
 
I have several apps which play lossless audio files (e.g. FLAC, WAV, AAC lossless) and will actually show you what sampling rate is being output through the lightning port.  Korg iAudioGate and NePLAYER are two such apps for iOS.  This is how I am able to verify what sampling rate is being output.
 
Can anyone tell me what sampling rates are supported by the SINE's Cipher cable?  I am interested in the SINE with Cipher, but I want to be able to play lossless 96kHz or 192kHz audio files and have the sound data be sent at the native sampling rate to the Cipher DAC.  Does the Cipher DAC only support 44.1kHz or 48kHz input?


The cypher only support 48kHz and below.
 
Nov 16, 2016 at 3:27 PM Post #2,846 of 4,673

bsd107

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The cypher only support 48kHz and below.

 
Wow - that's surprising.  Explains why they keep harping on "24-bit" but never mention sampling rate support like other products do.
 
Will sources all be sent to Cypher as 48kHz, or will iOS send 44.1kHz when appropriate?
 
Thanks for the info - saves me a purchase and finding out the hard way....
 
Nov 17, 2016 at 6:59 PM Post #2,847 of 4,673

bsd107

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The cypher only support 48kHz and below.

 
Thanks.
 
I actually emailed Audeze support and asked them what sampling rates Cipher natively supports.  They didn't really say what Cipher supports internally, but they did tell me that Apple deliberately limits lightning output to a maximum of 24-bit at 48kHz.  So this is all the Cipher can currently receive.
 
Really annoying that Apple limits this, especially as this can in some cases by circumvented by using Apple's own Lightning-to-USB cable and an external DAC.
 
What is even more annoying is that NONE of the many "first look" or "review" articles even consider checking into the sample rate that is supported by the Cipher.  If they did, they could point out Apple's arbitrary 48kHz limitation, and if this was highlighted enough Apple might actually remove this restriction someday....
 
Nov 17, 2016 at 7:10 PM Post #2,848 of 4,673

sup27606

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Thanks.
 
I actually emailed Audeze support and asked them what sampling rates Cipher natively supports.  They didn't really say what Cipher supports internally, but they did tell me that Apple deliberately limits lightning output to a maximum of 24-bit at 48kHz.  So this is all the Cipher can currently receive.
 
Really annoying that Apple limits this, especially as this can in some cases by circumvented by using Apple's own Lightning-to-USB cable and an external DAC.
 
What is even more annoying is that NONE of the many "first look" or "review" articles even consider checking into the sample rate that is supported by the Cipher.  If they did, they could point out Apple's arbitrary 48kHz limitation, and if this was highlighted enough Apple might actually remove this restriction someday....


Its an annoying limitation, but I don't see why its a big deal. 24/48 is already above CD resolution. Also, Its a phone, not a music player. There is hardly any space to store many ultra-high res audio files. Plus, cipher is not a highly resolving DAC. So, I doubt it would benefit from higher bitrate, even if our ears could distinguish between such subtle quality differences in a (noisy?) mobile environment. If you listen to Apple Music or Tidal, those bitrates are going to be fine.
 
For desktop use, ditch cipher and get a high quality amp to use with Sine.
 
Nov 17, 2016 at 7:22 PM Post #2,849 of 4,673

jagwap

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Thanks.
 
I actually emailed Audeze support and asked them what sampling rates Cipher natively supports.  They didn't really say what Cipher supports internally, but they did tell me that Apple deliberately limits lightning output to a maximum of 24-bit at 48kHz.  So this is all the Cipher can currently receive.
 
Really annoying that Apple limits this, especially as this can in some cases by circumvented by using Apple's own Lightning-to-USB cable and an external DAC.
 
What is even more annoying is that NONE of the many "first look" or "review" articles even consider checking into the sample rate that is supported by the Cipher.  If they did, they could point out Apple's arbitrary 48kHz limitation, and if this was highlighted enough Apple might actually remove this restriction someday....


Many online reviewers rely on the manufacturers to supply them with product, which they only do if the reviews remain generally positive.  So pointing out deficiencies will not please them, and the reviewer may be left out next time.  This does not apply to everyone, but more than you may suspect.
 
Nov 18, 2016 at 4:18 AM Post #2,850 of 4,673

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Limitation ro 24/48  may be not the Apple"s fault...
Have you tried high res audio player on the iPhone such as ONKYO , and check what"s on when playing 24/192 files...
I think 24/192 is sent through the lightning output then... but you may need a real DAC to benefit from this High resolution.
CIPHER is merely an expensive microphone for using SINE to phone.
SINE audio quality deserves to connect it to DAC-AMPS such as MOJO or OPPO HA2.
 

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