[PureViewer4t1]

That is just my opinion between the VSS in the Mobius vs the others. We're talking oranges to slightly sweeter oranges. They're all within a few percentages from each other. The Mobius VSS is very good.

Oh, I see. What about eq? Does GSX have any?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I edited my last comment. Check for the answer.

 

[GalaxyMaster]

I have a question (because I'm too lazy to check up on this):
Am I right that in LDAC bluetooth (quality first) 3D is not an option?
I have a specific reason for wanting to know, which I'll keep to myself for the moment. But when I am connected to my LG V30 with LDAC, there's no option for 3D (which is fine and what I expect) because (IIRC) there is too much processing concentrated on making the sound optimal (which it is)
Can anyone confirm or correct me on this?

That is incorrect. 3D modes are unavailable when using sample rates above 48 kHz. LDAC defaults to 96 kHz on Android but you can change that in developer settings. I personally always change to 44.1 kHz since I find normal headphones without any 3D HRTF to be jarring ever since I've gotten used to the Mobius. Do note that you will have to change this on every reconnect. I don't know of a way to change the default or save any changes.

 

[misteral201103]

That is incorrect. 3D modes are unavailable when using sample rates above 48 kHz. LDAC defaults to 96 kHz on Android but you can change that in developer settings. I personally always change to 44.1 kHz since I find normal headphones without any 3D HRTF to be jarring ever since I've gotten used to the Mobius. Do note that you will have to change this on every reconnect. I don't know of a way to change the default or save any changes.

Thanks very much! While you're right that I'm technically incorrect, I am right to expect an absence of 3D if I am receiving the highest possible quality sound over bluetooth.
Thanks, just wanted to make sure

 

[GalaxyMaster]

Thanks very much! While you're right that I'm technically incorrect, I am right to expect an absence of 3D if I am receiving the highest possible quality sound over bluetooth.
Thanks, just wanted to make sure

Quality is perhaps the wrong word to use here. While higher sample rates can provide a more detailed sound, the vast majority of audio content is either 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz. Upsampling those to 96 kHz can actually introduce errors that can potentially decrease the audio quality. It's generally best to match the sampling rates of the source audio and the playback device.

If you have 96 kHz audio files though, of course you're going to get the best quality when using that sample rate over LDAC (but you won't get any 3D). How noticeable those quality improvements are is debatable though. 48 kHz sampling rate can perfectly reproduce all frequencies up to 24 kHz (look up 'nyquist frequency') which is already well beyond human hearing. While we cannot directly hear frequencies above about 20 kHz there is some debate about whether we can hear the interference patterns once you combine it with other frequencies. I'm not gonna get further into this right now since there have been plenty of debates on this topic already. If you want to know more you can do your own research.

Regardless it's still best to match sampling rates to prevent conversion errors from taking place. Since LDAC is not lossless and ultimately still a compression codec most of the quality differences are going to come from the bitrate you select. By default it's auto tuned based on the connection quality, but you can force a certain bitrate in the developer settings. In the end I wouldn't worry too much about sampling rates and just enjoy the music with or without 3D, which ever one you prefer.

 

[KaiSc]

Quality is perhaps the wrong word to use here. While higher sample rates can provide a more detailed sound, the vast majority of audio content is either 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz. Upsampling those to 96 kHz can actually introduce errors that can potentially decrease the audio quality. It's generally best to match the sampling rates of the source audio and the playback device.

If you have 96 kHz audio files though, of course you're going to get the best quality when using that sample rate over LDAC (but you won't get any 3D). How noticeable those quality improvements are is debatable though. 48 kHz sampling rate can perfectly reproduce all frequencies up to 24 kHz (look up 'nyquist frequency') which is already well beyond human hearing. While we cannot directly hear frequencies above about 20 kHz there is some debate about whether we can hear the interference patterns once you combine it with other frequencies. I'm not gonna get further into this right now since there have been plenty of debates on this topic already. If you want to know more you can do your own research.

Regardless it's still best to match sampling rates to prevent conversion errors from taking place. Since LDAC is not lossless and ultimately still a compression codec most of the quality differences are going to come from the bitrate you select. By default it's auto tuned based on the connection quality, but you can force a certain bitrate in the developer settings. In the end I wouldn't worry too much about sampling rates and just enjoy the music with or without 3D, which ever one you prefer.

There is a difference, because usual digital EQ filters do work different in higher sample rates.
Specially in the HF range the filter curves change dramatically with different SRs, keeping their intended shape better the higher the SR they work in.
This needs to be taken into account by the programmers, in fact they need different EQ curves for different SRs to achief the same result.
In studio work we use oversampling equalizers for usually smoother results.

 

[GalaxyMaster]

There is a difference, because usual digital EQ filters do work different in higher sample rates.
Specially in the HF range the filter curves change dramatically with different SRs, keeping their intended shape better the higher the SR they work in.
This needs to be taken into account by the programmers, in fact they need different EQ curves for different SRs to achief the same result.
In studio work we use oversampling equalizers for usually smoother results.

Interesting... I never knew that. I wonder if the Mobius compensates for this with the built in EQ profiles.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I have never in the history of oversampling and setting my dacs to higher bit rates/frequencies (despite my lower file types) ever heard any problems, and I think I have good ears.

If it was such a problem, I doubt we'd have so many dacs that do 32bit/384khz, etc.

From what I've heard, oversampling actually benefits when you lower volume digitally, because you don't suffer from bit loss in the same way like when lowering digital volume with a standard 16/44 setting. Don't quote me on this though.

The only times I've encountered problems was with faulty drivers, usually fixed with an update.

 

[KaiSc]

Interesting... I never knew that. I wonder if the Mobius compensates for this with the built in EQ profiles.

I've measured it (for Music EQ), and yes, the EQ curves are identical in "7.1" and "High Res".

Higher sample rates don't improve low level resolution by much, but higher DAC bitrate can, in case the volume is lowered digitally.
With 24bit you can go 48dB down digitally and still have 16bit resolution - but no longer full 16bit Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR), because usually 24bit converters are only about 12 to 24dB (not 48dB) better in noise floor then 16bit converters.

When using digital volume control (like in Mobius and almost every current production digital device) the absolute noise floor is constant - you either hear it or not, independent of volume setting.

That's what caused Mobius initial noise problems, Audeze choose a too high analog amplifier's post-gain after the DAC, so DAC residual noise became audible to a majority of people.
Now the analog stage hardware gain is lowered, on cost of max. achievable soundlevel.

There are no complaints that Mobius isn't loud enough if feed from digital sources that feed unchanged signals.
There are some complaints if Mobius analog Aux-input is used from weak sources.
It takes 1.8V for driving Mobius Aux In's ADC fullscale - the level that usually comes out of desktop CD players.
@Kman Audeze should incorparate some amount of digital post gain into the volume control when the Aux connection is used, to deal with weaker sources.

 

[GalaxyMaster]

I have never in the history of oversampling and setting my dacs to higher bit rates/frequencies (despite my lower file types) ever heard any problems, and I think I have good ears.

If it was such a problem, I doubt we'd have so many dacs that do 32bit/384khz, etc.

From what I've heard, oversampling actually benefits when you lower volume digitally, because you don't suffer from bit loss in the same way like when lowering digital volume with a standard 16/44 setting. Don't quote me on this though.

The only times I've encountered problems was with faulty drivers, usually fixed with an update.

When upsampling most errors are simply inaudible to human ears, especially when you're not actively looking for them, so it's no surprise you have never heard them. IMO the primary reason many DACs have obscenely high sample rates is because of marketing. A bigger number sells better even though it doesn't give any real advantage. Sample rates also do not have anything to do with dynamic range, only bit depth affects that. 16 bit audio has noise floor of about -96 dBFS, which is completely inaudible at normal volume levels. Even if we take an extreme example of a -36 dB digital preamp, that would still leave you with a dynamic range of 60 dB, which for almost all purposes is unnoticeable. 24 bit audio raises the dynamic range to 144 dB which even exceeds the dynamic range of the vast majority of DACs, thus making it more than enough in pretty much all situations. 32 bit audio is basically pointless because no matter how much digital volume reduction you do, the DAC will always have a much higher noise floor than the digital audio stream itself. It doesn't really hurt to have it of course, but it doesn't give any benefit either.

 

[misteral201103]

Wow, did not expect to start such a conversation!!
My reason for asking is because I have used the Mobius over BT with LDAC on my LGV30, set to give highest quality - and it's absolutely good enough for me to not need to use a cable.
When connected to the phone, 3D is not an option.
I got a new piece of gear which claims to use LDAC, so was excited to try with the Mobius, but the sound quality is nowhere near as pristine as I get with my phone. Also, 3D is still an option.
This was why I asked the question, to see what it was that was different with this connection compared to my phone's. I knew that the automatic disabling of 3D was connected to better performance from the DAC - there's a quality setting when using a cabled connection which has the same effect (can't remember the name of it, it's on the Mobius. HiRes mode?)

The difference (whatever it is down to, sample rates or whatever) is way beyond noticeable. The quality I am currently getting is what has turned me away from BT thus far, compared to the reproduction from my phone over BT which is utterly compelling.

 

[GalaxyMaster]

Wow, did not expect to start such a conversation!!
My reason for asking is because I have used the Mobius over BT with LDAC on my LGV30, set to give highest quality - and it's absolutely good enough for me to not need to use a cable.
When connected to the phone, 3D is not an option.
I got a new piece of gear which claims to use LDAC, so was excited to try with the Mobius, but the sound quality is nowhere near as pristine as I get with my phone. Also, 3D is still an option.
This was why I asked the question, to see what it was that was different with this connection compared to my phone's. I knew that the automatic disabling of 3D was connected to better performance from the DAC - there's a quality setting when using a cabled connection which has the same effect (can't remember the name of it, it's on the Mobius. HiRes mode?)

The difference (whatever it is down to, sample rates or whatever) is way beyond noticeable. The quality I am currently getting is what has turned me away from BT thus far, compared to the reproduction from my phone over BT which is utterly compelling.

What device is it that you are using? It could be that it doesn't default to LDAC or uses a low bitrate.

 

[Zenvota]

Wow, did not expect to start such a conversation!!
My reason for asking is because I have used the Mobius over BT with LDAC on my LGV30, set to give highest quality - and it's absolutely good enough for me to not need to use a cable.
When connected to the phone, 3D is not an option.
I got a new piece of gear which claims to use LDAC, so was excited to try with the Mobius, but the sound quality is nowhere near as pristine as I get with my phone. Also, 3D is still an option.
This was why I asked the question, to see what it was that was different with this connection compared to my phone's. I knew that the automatic disabling of 3D was connected to better performance from the DAC - there's a quality setting when using a cabled connection which has the same effect (can't remember the name of it, it's on the Mobius. HiRes mode?)

The difference (whatever it is down to, sample rates or whatever) is way beyond noticeable. The quality I am currently getting is what has turned me away from BT thus far, compared to the reproduction from my phone over BT which is utterly compelling.

Default android settings put Mobius in high res mode

Change to 44.1 or 48khz and 16bit puts the mobius in 2channel mode, and 3d can be used. Can also set playback qualiry to highest 990kbps here as well

Don't forget to cycle off of and back to your eq preset after switching modes unless they fixed that and I missed it =/

 

[exzacklyright]

To get Bluetooth working via Windows I noticed there's a ''headset' option under playback devices and 'Headphones'.

Using the default setup that Audeze has under there faq tutorial renders no sound for me until I disable the ''headset' default communications device.

Is that the case for anyone else?

 

[GalaxyMaster]

Audeze HQ just got updated along with a new firmware! Haven't seen anybody post about it here yet so here you go!

https://www.audeze.com/audeze-hq-application

EDIT: I had a BSOD while updating, currently awaiting assistance. If I were you I'd hold off for now. See this post for details: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audeze-mobius-review-impressions.887808/page-249#post-14978703

EDIT2: DO NOT UPDATE. I was able to recover my Mobius but others were not so lucky. There is a high chance you could brick your Mobius if you do the update. We are currently awaiting a statement from Audeze.